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Hamilton takes a new engine, 10 place grid penalty for Turkey [split]


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#1 Go_Go

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 08:53

New engine for Lewis,10 places penalty.



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#2 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 08:54

New engine for Lewis,10 places penalty.

Good news for Max, since he probably isn’t the favorite on this track.

#3 MJB5990

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 08:59

Will still probably have to overtake both McLarens.

#4 Mercstar

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:06

Turkey or US were always going to be the best places to take the hit. Hopefully Bottas can bring his a game and put it on pole. 



#5 FrontWing

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:23

New engine for Lewis,10 places penalty.

and this is where the championship slips away.

#6 Augurk

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:26

and this is where the championship slips away.

Mercedes seems so fast he probably still takes victory even with 10 places penalty. 



#7 Goron3

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:28

Apparently Lewis has an updated outwash front wing on?

 

I get the feeling this could be a very good weekend for Mercedes even with the penalty. Both Red Bull drivers complaining about huge understeer - the high grip circuit and medium speed corners are hurting them, just as they did at Barcelona and Hungary.


Edited by Goron3, 08 October 2021 - 09:48.


#8 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:30

New engine for Lewis,10 places penalty.


10 places, only a new ICE then?

#9 OO7

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:37

Mercedes seems so fast he probably still takes victory even with 10 places penalty. 

It's only FP1.  ;)



#10 Augurk

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:44

It's only FP1.  ;)

Of course, but if RBR are having issues at the front end we've seen that enough times to know how that affects things. 



#11 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 09:53

i just dont get why they take it here and didnt in Sochi

#12 Risil

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:20

I'm not sure if there's ever a good time to take a grid penalty but it's certainly a big moment in the title race.

 

Are Mercedes taking a risk by bringing in a new engine with so many races to go? 7 races = 1/3 of the season, roughly.



#13 MJB5990

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:33

Makes absolutely zero sense

Zero



But, but, simulations.

And data.

#14 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:36

Makes absolutely zero sense

Zero

 

I think they feel that he'll most likely start the race from 11th or 12th, have a free choice of tyre (or is that void if he enters Q3? Not sure what the rules are there come to think of it), he'll be way quicker than anyone around him and it's possible to overtake on this track. With some clever strategy (admittedly not Mercedes' strong side) he'll easily finish top five in normal circumstances, and a podium is certainly well within range. 



#15 Clatter

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:37

Anyone know how many races the PU's of the Mclarens have done? All the talk is of Merc having to take new engines, but the same issues must be affecting the customer teams.

#16 pdac

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:04

I think they feel that he'll most likely start the race from 11th or 12th, have a free choice of tyre (or is that void if he enters Q3? Not sure what the rules are there come to think of it), he'll be way quicker than anyone around him and it's possible to overtake on this track. With some clever strategy (admittedly not Mercedes' strong side) he'll easily finish top five in normal circumstances, and a podium is certainly well within range. 

 

Nope, I don't think that's correct. I'm sure it will be done on the finishing position (prior to penalties being applied).



#17 Rediscoveryx

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:18

Nope, I don't think that's correct. I'm sure it will be done on the finishing position (prior to penalties being applied).

 

Yes, that would make the most sense. But still, even starting on the softer tyres (or qualifying a few places lower but starting on harder tyres) he should have the pace in the race to make up for lost grid positions quite easily until he reaches the top four-five or so.



#18 Gambelli

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:45

He may well get through to Q3 on mediums, start the race P11 on used mediums

 

That car around Turkey will finish on the podium, more than likely, it will be whether Bottas can bother Verstappen, and if he can't he'll be a road block for cars racing Hamilton



#19 Sam1

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:46

I'm sure it's a free tyre choice as the tyre choice only applies to the top 10 regardless of any penilty

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#20 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:50

No, the rule applies to those who make Q3. So, Hamilton will start P11 at best, with slightly used mediums. It will be an advantage, as most others in front of him will be on used softs, but it will not be as big an advantage as with a completely free tyre choice.



#21 Augurk

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:50

Anyone who makes the top 10 in Q2 will have to start on Q2 tyres. Penalties are applied to the grid afterwards.

#22 andyscoot

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:51

I'm sure it's a free tyre choice as the tyre choice only applies to the top 10 regardless of any penilty

 

That's not right is it? My understanding is that the free tyre choice applies to everyone who qualifies outside the top 10. If Lewis qualifies 9th for example, he will start P19 but on the tyres he did Q2 in. 



#23 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:52

Get your money on Hamilton for Pole and Win. Great odds. (qual is decided after sessions, not penalties).

 

£10 pays out £35. Mad odds for Hamilton on a track he loves. Overtaking is easy on the back straight.


Edited by Tenmantaylor, 08 October 2021 - 11:53.


#24 SagemX

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:54

Get your money on Hamilton for Pole and Win. Great odds. (qual is decided after sessions, not penalties).

 

£10 pays out £35. Mad odds for Hamilton on a track he loves. Overtaking is easy on the back straight.

Gonna end up being like his GP2 race in 2006



#25 Requiem84

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:57

He may well get through to Q3 on mediums, start the race P11 on used mediums

 

That car around Turkey will finish on the podium, more than likely, it will be whether Bottas can bother Verstappen, and if he can't he'll be a road block for cars racing Hamilton

 

If it rains in qualifying, the whole grid has a free tire choice. 



#26 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 12:00

I'm not sure if there's ever a good time to take a grid penalty but it's certainly a big moment in the title race.

 

Are Mercedes taking a risk by bringing in a new engine with so many races to go? 7 races = 1/3 of the season, roughly.

 

Seeing the life from PU1 and 2, it would be feasible. Difference is that PU1-3 were complete sets, PU4 is only the ICE. 

 

Bottas has a complete 4th set, but swapped out ICE4 for ICE5 in Russia.



#27 Kao18

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 12:17

Only10 places? Should be an easy podium for Lewis in normal conditions. Anything less is not good enough.



#28 Anderis

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 14:10

Damn, I assumed back of the grid start for "Guess the Grid" game. Why does the reality always find a way to mess up with my predictions. :lol:



#29 Astandahl

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 14:12

He has the pace to win.



#30 yolo

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 14:16

He has the pace to win.

 

Not unless he dispatches P10 through P4 in 5 or 10 laps. VER/BOT/PER or LEC will be nearly a pitstop ahead by the time he clears slower cars. 

 

And he will be starting on similar-ish tyres as them. So no. P2 is really the absolute best he can do IMO unless we have SC/VSC.



#31 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 15:19

Only10 places? Should be an easy podium for Lewis in normal conditions. Anything less is not good enough.

Depending on who he gets stuck behind and what strategy they are running this is by no means certain. Just look at Max in Sochi (until it rained).

Leclerc, Bottas, Max and maybe Perez will be hard to clear. And he will likely lose time behind McLaren. Top 5 finish should be the minimum, top 3 is good.

#32 Anderis

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 15:22

Leclerc, Bottas, Max and maybe Perez will be hard to clear.

I can't imagine many scenarios in which Hamilton really has to worry about clearing Bottas.



#33 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 15:27

I can't imagine many scenarios in which Hamilton really has to worry about clearing Bottas.

well, not if he is straight behind him obviously, but I cant imagine that Merc would ask him to drop behind Lewis if they are P2 and P4 (well, now thinking about that...)

#34 sheSgoTthElooK

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 15:36

well, not if he is straight behind him obviously, but I cant imagine that Merc would ask him to drop behind Lewis if they are P2 and P4 (well, now thinking about that...)

 

... but Bottas wouldn't do it, anyway. Cold case.

 

... nevertheless, there might be a chance, he might do it. But don't mind, Hamilton has lots of wingmans, starting with Lando, Fernando...Ricciardo see the pattern in it  :smoking:


Edited by sheSgoTthElooK, 08 October 2021 - 15:38.


#35 Coral

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 15:39

I can't imagine many scenarios in which Hamilton really has to worry about clearing Bottas.

Lewis is the only person that Bottas really defends against. Everyone else (Max especially) gets the red carpet thrown down for them. :p

 

No doubt this will be the race where Lewis cruises to pole...ho-hum...



#36 Rodaknee

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 18:19

Any guesses as to how the Mercedes strategy team will make a horlicks on Sunday?



#37 Anderis

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 18:38

I somehow feel that there will be penalties for other drivers and Hamilton will end up starting from 7th or something like that. :p



#38 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 18:46

I somehow feel that there will be penalties for other drivers and Hamilton will end up starting from 7th or something like that. :p

my understanding is that this season they (finally) dropped the approach to move up the grid after penalties are applied, which means a 10 place grid penalty is a 10 place grid penalty unless half of the grid takes one too (or that scenario last week where multiple drivers have a back row penalty). So the only benefit would be that he has potentially weaker cars starting ahead of him, the starting position wouldnt change though.

Edited by Marklar, 08 October 2021 - 18:50.


#39 Clatter

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 20:18

If it rains in qualifying, the whole grid has a free tire choice. 

 


Would that still apply if only Q3 were rain affected?

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#40 shure

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 20:30

my understanding is that this season they (finally) dropped the approach to move up the grid after penalties are applied, which means a 10 place grid penalty is a 10 place grid penalty unless half of the grid takes one too (or that scenario last week where multiple drivers have a back row penalty). So the only benefit would be that he has potentially weaker cars starting ahead of him, the starting position wouldnt change though.

do you know what the rule is in the event of a "tie?"  Eg if the driver on pole gets a 10 place drop and the driver who qualified 7th gets a 3 place one?



#41 Ivanhoe

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 20:38

do you know what the rule is in the event of a "tie?"  Eg if the driver on pole gets a 10 place drop and the driver who qualified 7th gets a 3 place one?

That’s not a tie   ;)

 

But it’s in 36.3c of the Sporting Regulations:

Once the grid has been established in accordance with a) and b) above, grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed. If, following the qualifying practice session, more than one driver incurs a penalty under Article 23.2b3e) or Article 23.45a) preference will be given to the driver whose Competitor first informed the Technical Delegate that a power unit or gearbox change will be carried out.


#42 Laptom

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 21:06

Not unless he dispatches P10 through P4 in 5 or 10 laps. VER/BOT/PER or LEC will be nearly a pitstop ahead by the time he clears slower cars.

And he will be starting on similar-ish tyres as them. So no. P2 is really the absolute best he can do IMO unless we have SC/VSC.


They will never be a pitstop ahead in 2021. Field is too damn close at the moment and the Merc is a rocketship since Silverstone.

#43 yolo

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 23:35

They will never be a pitstop ahead in 2021. Field is too damn close at the moment and the Merc is a rocketship since Silverstone.


Even Merc themselves think that overtaking will be very difficult on Sunday. Field spread is very slim with many cars lapping within a second from the Merc.

#44 beachdrifter

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 23:36

I somehow feel that there will be penalties for other drivers and Hamilton will end up starting from 7th or something like that. :p

 

And then drop to 15th with a bad start.



#45 Goron3

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 23:38

Even Merc themselves think that overtaking will be very difficult on Sunday. Field spread is very slim with many cars lapping within a second from the Merc.


The full throttle section in the final sector isn't quite as long as I remember it to be. Overtaking will ultimately come down to a bit of tyre degradation.

If the midfield qualify on softs, Merc will be reasonably happy.

#46 pdac

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 12:33

do you know what the rule is in the event of a "tie?"  Eg if the driver on pole gets a 10 place drop and the driver who qualified 7th gets a 3 place one?

 

I thought the rule was that penalties are applied in the order in which they are identified. That's why if you're sure you're going to need a new PU, it's best to report it to the FIA immediately.



#47 Kleli

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 12:47

With the car advantage that Merc has Ham will have a great chance of winning still.

I actually think it's a good tactic to take the engine change at a track where you are dominating. This way the will win the race and have a new engine. If you take the engine at a track where you are not dominating you have a new engine but will lose points. Now it's a win-win.

Edited by Kleli, 09 October 2021 - 12:50.


#48 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 13:08

With the car advantage that Merc has Ham will have a great chance of winning still.

I actually think it's a good tactic to take the engine change at a track where you are dominating. This way the will win the race and have a new engine. If you take the engine at a track where you are not dominating you have a new engine but will lose points. Now it's a win-win.


They should have changed all the parts instead of just one.

#49 ARTGP

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 13:10

They should have changed all the parts instead of just one.

 

It depends. It Merc don't feel he MGU will break, then they don't need to change it. Starting from the back makes win impossible in a dry race. Starting from P11, and the win is possible.   If the MGUs isn't a problem, then I guess none of it matters in the end. 



#50 masa90

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 13:22

Easy podium for Lewis tomorrow with how quick Mercedes is so should be no worries.