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#1 AdamFerrington

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 21:48

I have these various photos in my files, largely unidentified.

 

Any help in further identifying them would be very gratefully received.

(Edited to add the identifications which have been suggested)

 

2782-E102-7-CB2-486-F-9-C02-110-E5-A018-

#1 - Netherlands - pre or post war - MG K3 3031
 
6-CBB8-B24-51-A4-4-B41-B47-F-F2-E3-BC440
#2 - Brighton Speed Trials - Sept 1952 - Jaguara - Gordon Parker

mystery-poss-mg-nurburgring.jpg
#3 - Nurburgring -  May 1949 -  Eifelpokal - M.G. - BMW - Heinz-Gerd Jäger 
 
temp-678.jpg
#4 - Monza 1930 - Amedeo Ruggeri in Materassi's Itala Special
 
mystery-prescott-or-sw-1.jpg
#5 - Shelsley Walsh - possibly June 1948 - GN Martyr - Rupert Instone

Edited by AdamFerrington, 14 October 2021 - 17:37.


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#2 uechtel

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Posted 08 October 2021 - 23:02

#3 is taken at the Eifelpokal race on 22nd May 1949. This was a sports car event and #27 in the 1500 cc class was driven by Heinz-Gerd Jäger from Bochum. The car is a rebodied MG TA, which had been driven before the war by Walter Nürnberger. For the 1949 season Jäger hat replaced the original engine (and allegedly also the front axle) by a BMW unit, as indicated by the huge air scoop...



#3 fuzzi

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 05:18

No 2 is Gordon Parker's Jaguara.



#4 AdamFerrington

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:42

#3 is taken at the Eifelpokal race on 22nd May 1949. This was a sports car event and #27 in the 1500 cc class was driven by Heinz-Gerd Jäger from Bochum. The car is a rebodied MG TA, which had been driven before the war by Walter Nürnberger. For the 1949 season Jäger hat replaced the original engine (and allegedly also the front axle) by a BMW unit, as indicated by the huge air scoop...

Thank you, Markus

So an M.G. - B.M.W....unusual.....



#5 AdamFerrington

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 08:46

No 2 is Gordon Parker's Jaguara.

Thank you, Julian

I have now dug out the programme

Parker was 87 in the 3442cc Jaguara

W Coleman, who is mentioned in the link below, was 86 in the Jaguette

Parker was the Class record holder,  from a previous drive in the Jaguette.

 

To my eyes the number looks more like 87 than 86, but it is very indistinct...

And the 'GOP 1' Registration would seem to indicate Parker.

 

See here https://www.autopuzz...4tsdchbahpmiln2


Edited by AdamFerrington, 09 October 2021 - 08:59.


#6 Henk Vasmel

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 19:49

Number 1 almost certainly has a Dutch license plate. This type was in use until 1950, and allowed until 1956/7. A quick look in my database does not show an obvious candidate, and this particular number has not been seen by me before.

Just pre-war should be a possibility too, unless you know for certain that it is post-war. Several Dutch drivers raced in France in those days, and it is clearly a modified MG.

My guess would be to look to Hans / Harry Herkuleyns. The other MG user was Eddie Hertzberger, but that would have been a South-Holland registration (H or HZ), and I think he stopped racing after the raid on Rotterdam (1940) destroyed most of his possessions.

Herkuleyns I have on MG K3 -K3031. A picture in the book K3 Dossier shows a similar body on K3031 (and no Belgian girl singers), so I think I am on the right track.


Edited by Henk Vasmel, 09 October 2021 - 19:53.


#7 Steve L

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 21:19

Could someone post some additional info on the Jaguara please? What components were used, does it survive etc...?

#8 Alan Lewis

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 21:56

Number 5 looks like Rupert Instone's GN "Martyr" Shelsey special.

#9 AdamFerrington

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 22:36

Number 5 looks like Rupert Instone's GN "Martyr" Shelsey special.

Thank you, Alan - another one 'ticked'....



#10 AdamFerrington

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Posted 09 October 2021 - 22:50

Number 1 almost certainly has a Dutch license plate. This type was in use until 1950, and allowed until 1956/7. A quick look in my database does not show an obvious candidate, and this particular number has not been seen by me before.

Just pre-war should be a possibility too, unless you know for certain that it is post-war. Several Dutch drivers raced in France in those days, and it is clearly a modified MG.

My guess would be to look to Hans / Harry Herkuleyns. 

 

Herkuleyns I have on MG K3 -K3031. A picture in the book K3 Dossier shows a similar body on K3031 (and no Belgian girl singers), so I think I am on the right track.

Thank you Henk.

 

I certainly see what you mean about the similarity of the body to that shown in the photo of Herkuleyns and K3031 in Mike Hawke's K3 Dossier.

The race number 28 in that photo places it at Albi in July 1939.

So it very muck looks like photo 1 is MG K3 K3031.

When I look closely the house in the background looks Dutch, rather than French.....



#11 AdamFerrington

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 09:23

One more….

 

D858-E058-ED51-44-AF-990-F-A05-F8-AF5-F3

 

Dudley Holland - M.G. K3 3021 - probably at Monaco Motors in 1948


Edited by AdamFerrington, 14 October 2021 - 17:37.


#12 Steve L

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 10:09

MG single seater?

#13 AdamFerrington

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 12:05

Thanks, Stephen.

I think you are right - an MG is a good possibility - most likely a K3 

I will look into the possibilities…

 

EDIT

I am now pretty certain that the photo shows Dudley Folland in M.G, K3 3021, probably in 1948, at Monaco Motors, Watford where he was a partner.


Edited by AdamFerrington, 10 October 2021 - 13:37.


#14 Henk Vasmel

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 16:00

Thank you Henk.

 

I certainly see what you mean about the similarity of the body to that shown in the photo of Herkuleyns and K3031 in Mike Hawke's K3 Dossier.

The race number 28 in that photo places it at Albi in July 1939.

So it very muck looks like photo 1 is MG K3 K3031.

When I look closely the house in the background looks Dutch, rather than French.....

 

 

I received a message from "Barttore" who tells me he seems to be unable to login here to post this himself.

 

It is 100% sure this is K3031, the Ex-Hertzberger, Ex-Herkuleijns car

 

After Herkuleijns the owner was Van den Belt, and after that (1955) Karel Kramer. A copy of the registration book is included with that registration number and a home address in Amsterdam.

 

He took the car with him to Rhodesia.

 

Barttore is busy on a biography of Herkuleijns (that would be interesting to me too). His first name was neither Hans nor Harry. Officially it was Henri.


Edited by Henk Vasmel, 10 October 2021 - 17:44.


#15 AdamFerrington

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Posted 10 October 2021 - 16:22

Wonderful, Henk

Thank you.



#16 Dutchy

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Posted 12 October 2021 - 12:37

Re. Photo number 4, surely the chassis at least is T26 Maserati?



#17 AdamFerrington

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 01:02

Re. Photo number 4, surely the chassis at least is T26 Maserati?

I agree there are a few similarities…
There was only one Maserati Tipo 26 in Argentina (Juan Malcolm’s ch 35), and this not it.

I just showed the photo to a well-known former Maserati restorer and he agrees it is it is not a Maserati, but is ‘stumped’ as to what it i.

Guillermo Sanchez’s Fuerza Libre book does not seem to feature this car….



#18 Steve L

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 05:00

Might be a Diatto?

Edited by Steve L, 13 October 2021 - 05:02.


#19 cpbell

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 15:20

Might be a Diatto?

That was my other thought.



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#20 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 21:17

Do the tyres suggest a high-speed track?



#21 cpbell

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 21:25

I've copied the photo for #4 and zoomed-in on the lettering on the radiator - it appears to read "Carburatore Feia".


Edited by cpbell, 13 October 2021 - 21:31.


#22 AdamFerrington

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 05:47

I've copied the photo for #4 and zoomed-in on the lettering on the radiator - it appears to read "Carburatore Feia".

Thank you.
If that is the script on the radiator it must be Italy, not Argentina.

Back to the drawing board…….



#23 cpbell

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 16:45

Thank you.
If that is the script on the radiator it must be Italy, not Argentina.

Back to the drawing board…….

I might be mis-reading it.



#24 AdamFerrington

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 17:02

Photo 4 - Mystery solved - it IS Italy.

 

Alessandro Silva (once, like so many, a frequent contributor here.....) has confirmed the photo's identity as follows :-

 

Emilio Materassi's Itala Special, in its final guise.

Probably at the 1930 Gran Premio di Monza, where it was driven by Amedeo Ruggeri.

 

So the guess of Diatto was not so far off....


Edited by AdamFerrington, 14 October 2021 - 17:35.


#25 cpbell

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 20:24

Photo 4 - Mystery solved - it IS Italy.

 

Alessandro Silva (once, like so many, a frequent contributor here.....) has confirmed the photo's identity as follows :-

 

Emilio Materassi's Itala Special, in its final guise.

Probably at the 1930 Gran Premio di Monza, where it was driven by Amedeo Ruggeri.

 

So the guess of Diatto was not so far off....

This is weird - I wondered last night whether it was an Itala!



#26 AdamFerrington

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 20:30

This is weird - I wondered last night whether it was an Itala!

And you were right! :up:



#27 cpbell

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 20:50

And you were right! :up:

I would have posted it earlier, but I was out for most of the day.  Mind you, I was thinking of the 1 1/2 litre 1926 Itala, which this isn't. :lol:



#28 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 23:45

I know very little about this car, only that Materassi built it with half a V8 Hispano aero-engine.  He raced it with some success but it was badly damaged when he crashed in a race in Rome in early 1927.  I don't think he raced the car after that, switching to Bugatti then Talbot before his fatal crash at Monza in 1928.  Sheldon says that the car had an Itala engine when Ruggeri raced it in 1930.  He could be wrong about that, of course.  Has anybody got more information?

 

Incidentally, Sheldon also says that Ruggeri had number 56 in the 1930 Gran Premio di Monza.  We can't see the number clearly in Adam's photo but it doesn't seem to have two digits.



#29 Roger Clark

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 08:37

I've found a little more about the car.  It seems that Materassi built the car in 1923.  The Black Books list many races and successes until the Premio Reale di Roma, 12/06/27, when Materassi crashed, killing a policeman and a small boy.  Sometimes the Black Book says it had an Itala engine, sometimes an Hispano.  I suspect it was always the single block of the V8 Hispano.  I didn't find any other mentions in the Black Books until Ruggeri's appearance in the 1930 Gran Premio di Monza.

 

Motor Sport April 1930 contains an article by Kent Karslake on Itala racing cars.  It contains a drawing of Materassi in the 1926 Targa Florio.  A drawing may not be strictly accurate, of course, but the car doesn't look much like the one in Adam's photo.  I don't know how the Itala's engine was created from the V8 Hispano, whether the block was still inclined as on a V8 or vertical.  The drawing has the exhaust emerging very low, which might suggest that it was inclined but Adam's photo has a higher exhaust.  The Motor Sport report on the 1930 Italian Grand Prix (which most people call the Gran Premio di Monza) says that Ruggeri's car had an Hispano engine.  I couldn't find any mention of the engine on the Golden Age website.

 

Kent Karslake says that the car came to an unfortunate end and was wrecked in Materassi's Rome crash.

 

Many more questions than answers but I'd grateful if anyone can fill in the gaps.