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Sydney to take over the Australian GP with a new street circuit?


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#1 Anja

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 14:16

Apparently Sydney might try to steal the F1 Australian GP away from Melbourne with a new street circuit located on the city's waterfront. Melbourne's deal to host the race runs until 2025 so this change could still be a few years away, unless next year it's cancelled again in which case the contract might be broken. 

 

https://www.racefans...from-melbourne/



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#2 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 15:13

Apparently Sydney might try to steal the F1 Australian GP away from Melbourne with a new street circuit located on the city's waterfront. Melbourne's deal to host the race runs until 2025 so this change could still be a few years away, unless next year it's cancelled again in which case the contract might be broken. 

 

https://www.racefans...from-melbourne/

 

Every single new street circuit is yet another street circuit too many.



#3 Alfisti

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 15:55

nah no way it happens, lot of nimbies in sydney. 



#4 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 17:32

Every single new street circuit is yet another street circuit too many.

 

Are there any permanent tracks in Australia you can recommend, realistically? At least the Australian GP has a tradition of being a street race.



#5 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 17:49

Are there any permanent tracks in Australia you can recommend, realistically? At least the Australian GP has a tradition of being a street race.

 

If you want street races, Melbourne and Montreal does it the right way - Inside a park. I do not know enough or anything about Australian tracks, however with the rich history of Australian stock car or what ever they call it there must surely be many tracks, which one is Bathurst raced on?



#6 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 18:06

If you want street races, Melbourne and Montreal does it the right way - Inside a park. I do not know enough or anything about Australian tracks, however with the rich history of Australian stock car or what ever they call it there must surely be many tracks, which one is Bathurst raced on?

 

Doing a bit of your own research wouldn't hurt. Bathurst (Mount Panorama) is wholly unsuitable for anything quicker than a GT3 or touring car.

 

That's why I posed the question. Australia doesn't have many tracks that could easily be turned into Grade 1 for F1 use.



#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 18:17

Doing a bit of your own research wouldn't hurt. Bathurst (Mount Panorama) is wholly unsuitable for anything quicker than a GT3 or touring car.

 

That's why I posed the question. Australia doesn't have many tracks that could easily be turned into Grade 1 for F1 use.

 

I was not aware I had to jump to the google in the middle of a conversation, I will refrain from asking you questions in this thread henceforth.



#8 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 18:19

I was not aware I had to jump to the google in the middle of a conversation, I will refrain from asking you questions in this thread henceforth.

 

I wasn't demanding an instant answer.



#9 Topsu

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 18:52

I was not aware I had to jump to the google in the middle of a conversation, I will refrain from asking you questions in this thread henceforth.

You talk as if googling "bathurst circuit" takes more than five seconds.



#10 William Hunt

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:03

Every single new street circuit is yet another street circuit too many.

 

Why is this your opinion?



#11 OvDrone

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:07

'Hey let's make some changes to Albert Park to make it more exciting!

 

Yeah! Let's!'

 

 

 

 

'Also, let's move it to Sydney'.



#12 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:13

It’s actually quite a surprise that Australia doesn’t have some form of modern grade 1 circuit, with its history in motorsports. 
 

I’m kind of fed up with new street circuits but I agree that there’s a tradition of F1 on them in Australia. Personally I like Albert Park, it’s a street circuit without being a street circuit, if you know what I mean.



#13 Alfisti

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:20

There are three realistic circuits;

 

Bathurst: No. Just no. Across the top would see F1 cars doing absurd speeds and will make crashes at Radillion look like bumper cars. Risk of sever injury would be the highest on the calendar by a factor of 10. 

 

Eastern Creek: Just big enough, would need a ton of work to be F1 standard but there's a heap of room, space is not an issue. It is slap bang in the middle of suburban Australia ("Western Sydney") with a huge population base and excellent rail transit within a 5 minute shuttle of the track. Economics tend to suggest the track cannot afford the cost to be F1 safe and governments want the certainty of a big inner city crowd to help fund the race. Getting to downtown Sydney is about an hour by transit, plus the 5 minute shuttle i mentioned above. 

 

1920px-Sydney_Motorsport_Park_Brabham.pn

 

Phillip Island: A bike track, suffers from the same issues as Eastern Creek re. in an unsexy spot. I also suspect some of the corners would be insane in an f1 car and would need a lot of work done on the safety front. 

 

 

On paper, Eastern creek is suitable, well from a racer's perspective. Economics suggest street circuits in the middle of Australia's outstanding cities produce bigger crowds, create a carnival atmosphere and see a bigger spend on restaurants etc. Eastern Creek is not Magny Cours isolated but it is genuine suburbia. 


Edited by Alfisti, 21 October 2021 - 19:24.


#14 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:22

On top of that, Australia only has two Grade 2 circuits.

 

I'd imagine Sydney Motorsports Park (which some may know as Eastern Creek) could possibly do a Zandvoort and be upgraded with the right funding.

 

SydneyMPGardnerGP12.f8485ad04cd26dcf9eb2

 

Not a bad track from what I remember from some old sims. A1GP raced there.

 

 

The other is a circuit I'd never heard of until a google search just now. It's called "The Bend" and is fairly new. The full circuit is quite a busy lap.

 

The-Bend-GT-18.18a3e3aa880c2eb52c1cc4e8a

 



#15 Alfisti

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:26

It’s actually quite a surprise that Australia doesn’t have some form of modern grade 1 circuit, with its history in motorsports. 
 

I’m kind of fed up with new street circuits but I agree that there’s a tradition of F1 on them in Australia. Personally I like Albert Park, it’s a street circuit without being a street circuit, if you know what I mean.

 

I have been to Melbourne, Montreal, Monza and Spa and melbourne was the best organised by so far it was laughable. Free transit to the track, huge amounts of entrances and exits, massive park land, slap bang in the middle of one of the great world cities, absolutely OUTSTANDING support races and a general feeling of having their **** together the other three places could only dream of. 



#16 BRG

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:38

It is odd that proper permanent race tracks are dismissed as potentially unsafe, but sticking concrete barriers around a street circuit is all fine and dandy.

 

Street Circuits - Just Say NO!


Edited by BRG, 21 October 2021 - 19:38.


#17 ARTGP

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:41

F1 cars cannot race properly on street circuits. They should remain a novelty....not the main course...What is this? Formula E?  


Edited by ARTGP, 21 October 2021 - 19:41.


#18 Marklar

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 19:45

The Bend was apparently consider by F1 btw.

I would fancy Queensland Raceway, but sadly that one will be a definite no

#19 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 20:02

You talk as if googling "bathurst circuit" takes more than five seconds.

 

We are not in TNF.



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#20 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 20:03

Why is this your opinion?

 

https://forums.autos...cuit/?p=9636718



#21 OvDrone

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 20:04

I thought The Bend was Grade 1.



#22 PayasYouRace

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 20:09

I thought The Bend was Grade 1.

 

https://www.fia.com/...fia20200302.pdf

 

Only Albert Park is Grade 1. Surfers Paradise is also Grade 2, but I guess we were looking to avoid street circuits. Interestingly, Adelaide is only Grade 3.

 

 

We are not in TNF.

 

My post #14 took about 5 minutes of research. I didn't actually know that Eastern Creek had been renamed or that The Bend even existed. But now I do.



#23 Beggysmalls

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 20:18

I think the reasom we dont have any grade 1 permanent circuts is that we really dont have a strong open wheel or sportscar series so the need isnt really there to do it. V8 supercars only require level 2.

The bend is an amazing facility with and would require the least amount of work to make it f1 spec , but its location being an hr and a bit drive from adelaide makes it tricky to see it ever hosting a gp.

Sydney motorsport park would be an awful track for modern f1 very few overtaking opportunities and again would take alot to bring it up to f1 spec.

Phillip island is a beautiful track but again would need alot of work to bring it to f1 spec.

Bathurst we can only dream .....



I also think its important to note out of all of this is that nsw has a new premier and i think this might be a bjt of a way of getting some attention early days so the actual chances of it happening are quite low

#24 cpbell

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:00

We are not in TNF.

Sadly.



#25 Risil

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:07

The-Bend-GT-18.18a3e3aa880c2eb52c1cc4e8a

 

On this evidence The Bend is something of a misnomer



#26 GreenMachine

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:32

The reports I have seen (the Rocks!) seem totally unrealistic, but there may be waterside possibilities with CBD views, and of course THE bridge.  But I think it is kite flying ATM, maybe some work being done in case the Melbourne event does self-destruct next year - not impossible given that Melbourne is opening up with massive numbers (by Australian standards) of new Covid cases compared to Sydney, they may have their sh!t together, but it may bite them on the bum too.  In which case Sydney will say 'thanks very much'.  It would be poetic justice after Melbourne stole it from Adelaide, a nice touch.

 

SMP/EC would be a goer, on the 'GP' layout, with lots of work.  Bathurst would be a no-no, nice to dream about, but just 'no' in the real world of F1 safety.  The other possibility is a brand new circuit somewhere in western/southwestern Sydney, close down SMP and sell it off, use the money to build elsewhere.

 

PI would be nice, but it is halfway to the South Pole as far as access is concerned - yes I know it draws lots of bikers for the MotoGP, but they probably won't turn up in numbers for the F1.

 

Oh, I have an idea!  How about a street race in Adelaide ...  :clap:



#27 noikeee

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:44

On this evidence The Bend is something of a misnomer


It is a constant bend, all the way through.

Edited by noikeee, 21 October 2021 - 21:45.


#28 cpbell

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:46

Corner numerals are obviously now incorrect, but this might improve The Bend slightly:

the-bend.jpg



#29 LittleChris

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:51

What happened to the other track they were supposed to be building near Bathurst a few years ago ?

 

Mount Panorama Second Circuit (nsw.gov.au)


Edited by LittleChris, 21 October 2021 - 21:52.


#30 krapmeister

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 21:55

The Bend is in the middle of farkin' nowhere - it'd be the Australian equivalent of Magny Cour

#31 Fastcake

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 22:01

On this evidence The Bend is something of a misnomer

On the presumption that a circle is distinct from a bend, a circuit with only one bend would certainly be an experiment.



#32 William Hunt

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 22:17

The Bend has wide run off area's so if you put a lot of gravel traps in those area's the track could in theory be easily upgraded to Grade 1. Pits would need an upgrade too off course + stands added but it's perfectly doable there.



#33 noikeee

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 22:22

With that layout the dirty air would be felt all the way down in New Zealand

#34 A.Fant

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 00:05

Baku is one of the best tracks on the calendar, not sure how street circuits got such a bad rap. They can be awful, but when they're good they're incredible. Baku is probably my favorite track despite an event's history heavily factoring in for me.

 

And IMO most of the poor street circuits are "street circuits" like Sochi, Valencia, Las Vegas etc.

 

Baku, Monaco, even Singapore - love them all.



#35 krapmeister

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 01:19

Corner numerals are obviously now incorrect, but this might improve The Bend slightly:
the-bend.jpg

 
If you just connect T3 to T12, and then T23 to T34 you avoid all that fluff in the middle and get The Bend's version of Bahrain's outer circuit...  :up:
 
4GQkMAL.png



#36 gowebber

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:01

They just upgraded the Albert Park track with various changes and a track resurface to come. Would be mad moving the race anywhere else for various other reasons as well. Have been to the Melbourne F1 GP numerous times and I agree it is so well organised and located, no wonder its one of the fan and drivers favourite events. Theres a reason Melbourne is called the home of sport in Australia. Leave it where it is.


Edited by gowebber, 22 October 2021 - 02:02.


#37 GreenMachine

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:16

Leave it where it is.

 

It is possible Sydney will come up with a killer bid for when Melbourne's contract expires.  Unlikely at this point, but never say never.

 

The real threat to the F1 in Melbourne is Melbournians and covid, so in a real sense the F1 future is in their hands.  There is plenty of time to pull the irons out of the fire, but if they can't, or another outbreak takes off, ... end of story.



#38 gowebber

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:34

It is possible Sydney will come up with a killer bid for when Melbourne's contract expires.  Unlikely at this point, but never say never.

 

The real threat to the F1 in Melbourne is Melbournians and covid, so in a real sense the F1 future is in their hands.  There is plenty of time to pull the irons out of the fire, but if they can't, or another outbreak takes off, ... end of story.

 

 

Not sure, I hope not, I just can't see the sum of all parts adding up to a Sydney race that is better that what Melbourne's event is. Albert Park being so close to the Melbourne city centre is a huge bonus and you can't really beat Melbournes restaurant and cafe scene, free trams to and from the track etc. It has everything. Just hope COVID as you said doesn't stuff things up. 


Edited by gowebber, 22 October 2021 - 02:41.


#39 krapmeister

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:13

I think COVID will be treated differently moving forward from here, now that we will likely have close to 90% vaccine coverage of the population by year's end - I think there will be a real resistance from the Federal and State governments to impose blanket lockdowns/border closures as they have previously. Well... maybe not so much WA :p

 

Obviously how Europe especially goes over the winter will inform how things might go here next year, but short of the emergence of a vaccine resistant mutation of the virus - which will be bad news for everyone - I think they will try to keep Australia open as much as possible. The Vic Government will be especially keen to get things like the GP happening again.


Edited by krapmeister, 22 October 2021 - 03:15.


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#40 Beggysmalls

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:37

I can see a point in the future where the contract maybe up and the vic government may simply not be prepared to cough up the cash to keep it.

The effect of the long lockdowns has to be paid for somewhere down the track and its gonna bite when we do and key events are easy to let go of when you need to save cash

The bend has a number of different layouts that could be used. I believe it has the ability to have two seperate tracks running at the same time. As stated previously though it really is in the middle of nowhere

#41 Nobody

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 04:36

they do this every other year, but apart from (European) football and new home construction nothing else grows in Western Sydney



#42 TheFish

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 06:46

I really hope Melbourne gets to keep the race (and not just because I'm hopefully moving there again next year). Albert Park is a great spot, loads of trams go close to it, it's very close to the beach and St Kilda, it's easy to get basically anywhere in Melbourne. The event itself is always well organised and has lots of entertainment. I love Melbourne :love:



#43 Alfisti

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 12:03

I think what people don't realise is for all the claims of draconian lock downs, from March 2020 till a couple of months ago, Australia had more time open and free than just about anywhere because they controlled the virus. They cracked down hard and fast so it looked extreme but the reality was life was quite normal for thr majority for a long, long time. The economy has not been impacted in the same way it was in other places due to this, sure they spent a whack of cash but not as much as many other places because the economic wheels were still turning.