48 replies to this topic

[Bob Riebe]

https://www.enginela...ck-crate-motor/

 

Ah, drop that into a 1966 Corvette or a 1969 Impala SS , SWEET.

 

V-632

 

Edited by Bob Riebe, 01 December 2021 - 22:15.

[Magoo]

There are some interesting pieces in this engine, including the Ron Sperry cylinder heads and a shaft-mounted rocker arm system. Hoping for someone to do an in-depth feature on it. 

[Canuck]

If only we knew a talented story-teller, experienced author and knowledgable gear-head with deep contacts in the industry…😉

[Magoo]

If only we knew a talented story-teller, experienced author and knowledgable gear-head with deep contacts in the industry…

 

Unfortunately, such a story would be a poor performer at my website. 

[desmo]

Nevertheless, that might be fun where the backseat currently is in my Jetta wagon 

[Canuck]

Unfortunately, such a story would be a poor performer at my website. 

That is most unfortunate. And surprising.

[Magoo]

That is most unfortunate. And surprising.

 

Sometimes I do a piece just because I think it should be done. If photos become available I might do this one yet. 

[Magoo]

This is more newsworthy. 

 

 

https://www.motortre...tte-z06-details

[gruntguru]

Wow. This would have to be the pinnacle of the American production V8. Won't be bettered.

[Magoo]

Wow. This would have to be the pinnacle of the American production V8. Won't be bettered.

 

Yep. Peak ICE. 

[Canuck]

Nice to go out with a bang though. I imagine we’ll see increasingly capable electric which is not necessarily a bad thing. The rate of change being pushed by various local and regional governments will be interesting to see, though I fear we will all freeze and or starve before they’ve balanced the other side of “get rid of fossil fuel “.

[Magoo]

The ICE end game will be three-cylinder turbos with 10-speed transmissions, start/stop, regen braking, etc. 

[Wuzak]

The ICE end game will be three-cylinder turbos with 10-speed transmissions, start/stop, regen braking, etc. 

 

Why not electric drive?

[Magoo]

Why not electric drive?

 

Sure, with regen braking you may as well. 

[Lee Nicolle]

Unfortunately, such a story would be a poor performer at my website. 

I would read it,,, I read it all.

[Lee Nicolle]

This is more newsworthy. 

 

 

https://www.motortre...tte-z06-details

A Vette trying to be a Ferrari. The C8 to me is a failure. With all its electronics that keep causing failures.

GM need to bring it back to being the poor man sports car.

As it is with a turbo it is still a 9 second car on a drag strip,, slower than a hot rod Tesla!!

[Lee Nicolle]

Why not electric drive?

A long distance Sports Car that will do short distances. That is why!

[Wuzak]

A long distance Sports Car that will do short distances. That is why!

 

I understood Magoo's statement to be about ICE vehicles, in general. Not just sports cars.

 

And he mentioned regen braking, which requires some sort of energy recovery and storage system, most likely electric motor/generators and batteries.

 

I'm not really sure what you are arguing. That a sports car would only drive short distances, nowhere near its maximum range? That pretty much covers all sports cars, whatever the driving system.

 

I would think that an electric drive car with a compact engine/generator and small battery would have some packaging advantages.

[Bob Riebe]

I understood Magoo's statement to be about ICE vehicles, in general. Not just sports cars.

 

And he mentioned regen braking, which requires some sort of energy recovery and storage system, most likely electric motor/generators and batteries.

 

I'm not really sure what you are arguing. That a sports car would only drive short distances, nowhere near its maximum range? That pretty much covers all sports cars, whatever the driving system.

 

I would think that an electric drive car with a compact engine/generator and small battery would have some packaging advantages.

Gasoline powered cars can be refueled in seconds to minutes, electric cars cannot.

[Wuzak]

Gasoline powered cars can be refueled in seconds to minutes, electric cars cannot.

 

And, of course, there are many areas in the world, mostly rural, where the range of pure EVs is a problem, as well as a dearth of charging facilities.

[GreenMachine]

Let's be more specific.  It is not so much range per se, it is the distribution of charging facilities.  IOW, the ability to use the range and not be stranded when the battery runs out.

 

In this context let us not forget that in some of those areas petrol/diesel can also be hard to find, and precautions need to be taken.

[Bob Riebe]

Let's be more specific.  It is not so much range per se, it is the distribution of charging facilities.  IOW, the ability to use the range and not be stranded when the battery runs out.

 

In this context let us not forget that in some of those areas petrol/diesel can also be hard to find, and precautions need to be taken.

Carrying spare gasoline cans is easy, batteries not so much.

[GreenMachine]

Cans don't do much, they need something inside them to make the car go.  Empty cans are no better than dead batteries.  Out here, there are many outback trips that are predicated around the availability of fuel.

 

In principle, the cases are similar - it's just that the EV charging infrastructure is still under-developed.  And nobody is arguing that EVs will totally replace all other motive forms, in all circumstances - except maybe you Bob?

[Bob Riebe]

Cans don't do much, they need something inside them to make the car go.  Empty cans are no better than dead batteries.  Out here, there are many outback trips that are predicated around the availability of fuel.

 

In principle, the cases are similar - it's just that the EV charging infrastructure is still under-developed.  And nobody is arguing that EVs will totally replace all other motive forms, in all circumstances - except maybe you Bob?

LOL,, EV infrastructure -- who is going to pay for it?

 

I know each charging station can have a wind-mill,solar charge unit and a small gasoline generator just in case 

[Wuzak]

LOL,, EV infrastructure -- who is going to pay for it?

 

Who paid for the petrol/gas infrastructure?

[Canuck]

I had a very fuel-hungry big-block in my little short-box pickup, and a rather small tank (40 litres-ish). The drive from home to first reliable refueling facility required an extra 4 "5-gallon" jerry cans to make successfully. The Tesla that lives back home can make that drive without stopping.

 

Several years ago, I drove a lifted, fat-tired diesel F350 from Calgary to Tampa Bay (Reddington Beach, specifically) for my employer at the time. I found that to keep it fuelled up, the only reliable place to stop was at the truck stops - anywhere else was a complete gamble for diesel fuel availability. At one point, I made took "the wrong exit" as it turned out. My naive upbringing failed to clue in at the first gas station, when I went inside to ask if there was any diesel nearby. Everyone was looking at me like I had 2 heads. Went down to the 2nd station, found the diesel pump, but couldn't seem to get any fuel. Finally noticed the sign that said "prepay only", at about the same time I noticed the same car slowly roll by for the third time since I'd pulled up. Ran inside, paid a quick $20, splashed some fuel in and made haste. It was the first time I'd ever been anywhere like that. Stuck to the truck stops after that.

[gruntguru]

I know each charging station can have a wind-mill,solar charge unit and a small gasoline generator just in case 

No electricty? Where is this place - Sahara desert? Don't need EV's, the Arabs have oil wells and Hummers.

Edited by gruntguru, 10 November 2021 - 23:05.

[Bob Riebe]

Who paid for the petrol/gas infrastructure?

NOT the government, which now wants to do that for the battery mobiles.

Very poor analogy.

[Wuzak]

NOT the government, which now wants to do that for the battery mobiles.

Very poor analogy.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Tesla built its network by itself.

 

And others have done the same.

 

And it took 100 years to get the petrol/gas infrastructure to where it is today, the electric one has to be built much more quickly.

[Magoo]

LOL,, EV infrastructure -- who is going to pay for it?

 

I know each charging station can have a wind-mill,solar charge unit and a small gasoline generator just in case 

 

In 1910 there were almost no gas stations. By 1920 there were 15,000. By 1930 there were over 100,000 and by 1940 there were far too many. There are still far more than we need today. 

 

And so it will go with EV charging stations as well. The need will be greatly overestimated because most charging will be done at home and stations will be overbuilt. Guaranteed. That's how free markets work. 

 

Honestly, I should be charging you guys for this. 

[GreenMachine]

LOL,, EV infrastructure -- who is going to pay for it?

 

Really Bob, you think this is a deal breaker?  You must live in a very closed little world not to have seen how technologies emerge and then explode.  And when they do, ecologies develop around them to support, exploit, and generally make money out of them.  It will happen again, is happening if look closely enough.

[Bob Riebe]

:drunk:LOL  

I grew-up in and still have permanent residence in an area where there used to be a gasoline full-service station, general store, church and some times a creamery, in each town-ship and often just at a well traveled intersection.

If a farmer or any one traveling out there had problems, help, including parts, were not far away.

 

THAT infrastructure is gone, the last die-hards lasted into the nineties; now if you have a problem out there you walk, or wait a looong ways or a looong time.

That infra-structure was created by farm co-ops and basic human needs of food, fuel and service; as far as transportation, unless your engine blew-up, service and return to mobility was usually quick (When was the last time you saw a fuel tank truck at a service station -- oh wait -- service stations have become a Will o' Wisp.)

 

Your battery powered mobile infra-structure is about as desirable as the buses that replaced trolleys and now the metro transit up here that is making the bus service piss poor, while the people whose area was destroyed by the metro transit, (just as the free-ways did) loathe the transit  which is losing mioney and good place to get raped or robbed.

But the populace that need such an infra-structure as much as they need cancer, will pay for it.

 

The human debris that lives in the large cities, at least the politicians and ass-wipes that vote for them , float the new Great Society ideas that put money in their pockets and do not give a damn about how they a **** on the general populace, actually probalby enjoy doing so from their gated communities.

[gruntguru]

The EV knockers talk as though the EV crowd are taking over tomorrow. The reality is combustion cars will still be selling in 2030 and people will still be driving them in 2050.

 

The EV knockers will all be dead or converts by then.

[desmo]

Mostly dead, if my maths are on.

[Magoo]

Ted Kaczynski! When did you get out? 

[Greg Locock]

Thing is, nobody (wild exaggeration) is pumping money into developing IC engines. That is a bit daft - 15 years ago we had an emissions compliant, efficient, direct injection LPG in production. Predictably like all sensible ideas it was a sales failure, but there's no particular reason why a CNG infrastructure couldn't be set up as a low carbon (about half) alternative to gasoline/diesels.

[Canuck]

LPG was all the rage here, particularly in taxi fleets. The flexibility to switch between regular gasoline and LPG was very attractive despite the power hit, until LPG and diesel both suddenly sky-rocketed in price until they were the in line with gas prices.at one point, propane shot up 300% in just 3 months and has pretty much stayed.

[Greg Locock]

There was no power hit when we fitted direct injection instead of a barbecue ring. 20 years back there was a government initiative to encourage LPG, which they did by removing most of the excise duty on, so LPG was about half the cost of gasoline at the pump. The intention was to add that tax back on when the take up was high enough, but that hasn't happened yet, and given local shortages of LPG, is unlikely to happen any time soon. 

[Magoo]

Thing is, nobody (wild exaggeration) is pumping money into developing IC engines. That is a bit daft - 15 years ago we had an emissions compliant, efficient, direct injection LPG in production. Predictably like all sensible ideas it was a sales failure, but there's no particular reason why a CNG infrastructure couldn't be set up as a low carbon (about half) alternative to gasoline/diesels.

 

For the exception that proves the rule, GM recently (2019 rollout) developed a 3.0L diesel L6 in collaboration with FEV Group of Germany. Hasn't gone terribly well so far. Production is currently halted. 

[Greg Locock]

What's an L6?

[Wuzak]

What's an L6?

 

In-line 6 cylinder?

[Magoo]

L6 = I6. Americans talk funny, as you know. 

[Greg Locock]

Thanks. I'll put that in the pile of weird stuff near the aero guys who apparently call almost any non radial reciprocating engine an inline engine. Random googling suggests the derivation is from Line 6, and some people call them R6s. 

 

Developing a new production engine is 7 year job, so they'd have kicked that off in 2012, where the world was a very different place. FEV probably had a concept engine up and running already. FEV did the EcoBoost engines as well, just thinking about it.

 

https://www.fev.com/...ent-of-fev.html

[Wuzak]

Thanks. I'll put that in the pile of weird stuff near the aero guys who apparently call almost any non radial reciprocating engine an inline engine.

 

And engines like the Jumo 222 were called "radialine" in some British documents.

 

https://oldmachinepr...ircraft-engine/

 

 

I'm not sure what the Wright Tornado was described as, considering it had 6 rows of 7 cylinders in a radial arrangement.

[BRG]

Slight deviation, but last night a friend mentioned once seeing a cylinder block that had 6 cylinders, but off set, thus:  1  3   5

                                                                                                                                                                                             2  4  6

 

Any idea what it might have been?  The Lancia 'V4' used a single block and head, I bleieve, but had offset cylinders and was deemed to be a Vee not an In-line.

Edited by BRG, 30 November 2021 - 11:34.

[Magoo]

Slight deviation, but last night a friend mentioned once seeing a cylinder block that had 6 cylinders, but off set, thus:  1  3   5

                                                                                                                                                                                             2  4  6

 

Any idea what it might have been?  The Lancia 'V4' used a single block and head, I bleieve, but had offset cylinders and was deemed to be a Vee not an In-line.

 

Sounds like a Volkswagen VR6.

[Magoo]

Thanks. I'll put that in the pile of weird stuff near the aero guys who apparently call almost any non radial reciprocating engine an inline engine. Random googling suggests the derivation is from Line 6, and some people call them R6s. 

 

 

 

Much of this stuff comes from U.S. military engine-type designations. O for opposed, R for radial, etc. I am guessing they probably chose L over I for inline because it is harder to confuse. 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ne_designations

[BRG]

Sounds like a Volkswagen VR6.

Good call. Looks very like that was it. 

[Wuzak]

Much of this stuff comes from U.S. military engine-type designations. O for opposed, R for radial, etc. I am guessing they probably chose L over I for inline because it is harder to confuse. 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ne_designations

 

L was mostly used for actual in-line engines, such as the Ranger L-440.

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Ranger_L-440

 

Though they weren't consistent, with the Liberty V-12 being designated L-12, though I think the L was for Liberty, rather than in-line (there was an L-8, which was a V8 and and L-6, which was an in-line 6).

 

Mostly they used V for Vee type engines (eg V-1710). 

 

An inverted liberty was designated V-1650, while an air-cooled Liberty built by Allison was designated VG-1410.

 

I was sometimes used to designate inverted engines, such as the Continental I-1430 (or sometimes the IV-1430) and the Chrysler I-2220 (aka IV-2220).

 

X was a prefix for experimental engines, but was also used for X-type engines, such as the Allison X-4520.

 

The US military (army air corps/force) of that era also gave the designation P for fighters (= pursuit) and F for Photo Reconnaissance (foto).