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Naming a Grand Prix [split]


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#1 Spillage

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 20:46

As an aside... why is this race called the Miexico City Grand Prix? Ditto Interlagos, for some reason rhis year the Sao Paulo Grand Prix. Why not the Mexican and Brazilian GPs like normal?



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#2 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 20:56

As an aside... why is this race called the Miexico City Grand Prix? Ditto Interlagos, for some reason rhis year the Sao Paulo Grand Prix. Why not the Mexican and Brazilian GPs like normal?

I think it's up to the race organizer to decide how they promote it.
They pay the fee for the slot, then they try to make money.

My assumption is Mexico City budget is a sponsor



#3 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 21:12

As an aside... why is this race called the Miexico City Grand Prix? Ditto Interlagos, for some reason rhis year the Sao Paulo Grand Prix. Why not the Mexican and Brazilian GPs like normal?

 

Because it seems under Liberty FOM don't care for the naming traditions of a Grand Prix anymore. I for one will continue to refer to them as the Mexican and Brazilian Grands Prix respectively, because as far as I'm concerned they still have that status as the national Grand Prix of their host countries.



#4 pdac

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 21:42

Because it seems under Liberty FOM don't care for the naming traditions of a Grand Prix anymore. I for one will continue to refer to them as the Mexican and Brazilian Grands Prix respectively, because as far as I'm concerned they still have that status as the national Grand Prix of their host countries.

 

Let it go. You cannot win.



#5 PayasYouRace

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 21:44

Let it go. You cannot win.

 

I'm not trying to win. I'm just calling them the names I prefer.



#6 ARTGP

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 22:19

I'm not trying to win. I'm just calling them the names I prefer.

 

Would you differentiate between Imola and Monza? Just curious.

 

Are they both the Italian GP?  Or something like the Austria/Styria gimmick?


Edited by ARTGP, 04 November 2021 - 22:20.


#7 Spillage

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 23:34

It is a bit naff though. What does it do to the stats? If Perez wins this weekend he will not be the first Mexican to win the Mexican Grand Prix, but the first man to win the Mexico City Grand Prix... I don't like it, somehow.



#8 pdac

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Posted 04 November 2021 - 23:45

It is a bit naff though. What does it do to the stats? If Perez wins this weekend he will not be the first Mexican to win the Mexican Grand Prix, but the first man to win the Mexico City Grand Prix... I don't like it, somehow.

 

But what sort of stat is that anyway?? All "winning the first race at ..." means is that you happened to be in the right place at the right time (and in the right car). These sort of 'stats' are not stats they are just meaningless labels.



#9 Cornholio

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 00:43

Would you differentiate between Imola and Monza? Just curious.

 

Are they both the Italian GP?  Or something like the Austria/Styria gimmick?

 

It's a bit different when there's already a Grand Prix for that country though, as they have to call it something unique.

 

FWIW calling last year's Nurburgring race the "Eifel Grand Prix" when there was no other German GP, felt a bit wrong, as well.



#10 RogerStone

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 02:03

Would you differentiate between Imola and Monza? Just curious.

 

Are they both the Italian GP?  Or something like the Austria/Styria gimmick?

 

Imola used to be home of the San Marino Grand Prix....



#11 Clrnc

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 03:40

It is the easiest switch, no brainer really.

Would be more interesting if Perez P1 and Max P3 with a non-Mercedes car between. Would they move Checo from P1 to P3 to secure P2 to Max? It would show if RB values WDC over WCC.

Yep, and Perez will be mature enough to give up the place to Max.

 

If its p1 and p3, RB definitely will keep status quo. 



#12 ARTGP

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 03:41

It is a bit naff though. What does it do to the stats? If Perez wins this weekend he will not be the first Mexican to win the Mexican Grand Prix, but the first man to win the Mexico City Grand Prix... I don't like it, somehow.

 

Needing to have it be a "Mexican wins the Mexican GP" just seems like a literary peeve. He won the home GP. That's the stat.


Edited by ARTGP, 05 November 2021 - 03:44.


#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 07:23

Would you differentiate between Imola and Monza? Just curious.

 

Are they both the Italian GP?  Or something like the Austria/Styria gimmick?

 

I'm sure you can work it out.



#14 Requiem84

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 07:47

Will be interesting once we have 3 or more races in the US.

#15 pacificquay

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 07:51

Will be interesting once we have 3 or more races in the US.

1982 says hello



#16 Requiem84

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 07:52

1982 says hello


How were the races named that year?

#17 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:08

I'm sure you can work it out.

Italian gp 1 and italian gp 2 ?

Or just Italian gp for both ?

#18 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:11

How were the races named that year?


Long Beach was Long Beach GP, Las Vegas was Caesars Palace GP. And then Detroit was Detroit GP

Edited by Stephane, 05 November 2021 - 08:14.


#19 Heyli

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:18

Italian gp 1 and italian gp 2 ?

Or just Italian gp for both ?

Back to the old San Marino GP of course!



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#20 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:41

Buuuuut it's not really in San Marino !!!

😜

#21 Ivanhoe

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:49

Long Beach was Long Beach GP, Las Vegas was Caesars Palace GP. And then Detroit was Detroit GP

Long Beach was US GP West IIRC



#22 absinthedude

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:57

Yes, we had the US Grand Prix West (Long Beach), the Ceasars Palace Grand Prix and the Detroit Grand Prix.

 

In days gone by when Italy typically had two races, Imola became the San Marino Grand Prix and Monza hosted the Italian Grand Prix.

 

On occasions when a country hosted two, sometimes the second was given the title "European Grand Prix" such as 1985 when Silverstone had the British GP and Brands Hatch the European...1993 when Donington had the European GP....1995 when the Nurburgring held the European GP. 

 

Nothing new, all been done before.

 

More recently we've had the Emilia Romagna title given to the second Italian race. Sakhir given to the second Bahrain race. Styrian GP applied to the second Austiran. But it's probably the first time that a country has had it's one and only "national" grand prix not named after it....Mexico City and whatever they're calling Brazil these days. I wonder if there's some legal naming rights issues.

 

In the 1950s the "European Grand Prix" was awarded to one race as a secondary, honourific title. The actual title of the very first World Championship race was something like the 1950 European Grand Prix Incorporating the British Grand Prix. So you got both. For 1951 I think it was France which got the "European" honorific. 


Edited by absinthedude, 05 November 2021 - 09:00.


#23 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 08:58

That's what i thought

 

https://i.pinimg.com...363fd28c974.jpg



#24 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:00

Italian gp 1 and italian gp 2 ?

Or just Italian gp for both ?

There’s been a long established pattern for naming a second (or third) world championship GP in the same country, and Italy has historic examples going back to 1957.

Pescara GP, San Marino GP, Emilia-Romagna GP, Tuscan GP.

I’m sure you can work out where I’m coming from without the need for facetious questions. Let’s not make a meal of this.

#25 Nemo1965

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:01

Don't forget the Swiss Grand Prix of 1982, held in...Dijon, France...



#26 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:04

Yes, we had the US Grand Prix West (Long Beach), the Ceasars Palace Grand Prix and the Detroit Grand Prix.

 

In days gone by when Italy typically had two races, Imola became the San Marino Grand Prix and Monza hosted the Italian Grand Prix.

 

On occasions when a country hosted two, sometimes the second was given the title "European Grand Prix" such as 1985 when Silverstone had the British GP and Brands Hatch the European...1993 when Donington had the European GP....1995 when the Nurburgring held the European GP. 

 

Nothing new, all been done before.

 

More recently we've had the Emilia Romagna title given to the second Italian race. Sakhir given to the second Bahrain race. Styrian GP applied to the second Austiran. But it's probably the first time that a country has had it's one and only "national" grand prix not named after it....Mexico City and whatever they're calling Brazil these days. I wonder if there's some legal naming rights issues.

Yes there is, and that's why we had the Nurburgring race called Lux GP in '07 even though there was no German GP that year..



#27 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:04

Don't forget the Swiss Grand Prix of 1982, held in...Dijon, France...


Or the 1980 Italian GP, held at Imola which is actually in.....oh. Never mind.

#28 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:04

There’s been a long established pattern for naming a second (or third) world championship GP in the same country, and Italy has historic examples going back to 1957.

Pescara GP, San Marino GP, Emilia-Romagna GP, Tuscan GP.

I’m sure you can work out where I’m coming from without the need for facetious questions. Let’s not make a meal of this.

Yeah, keep it absolutely serious, names are important.

 

Sorry



#29 Ivanhoe

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:06

That's what i thought

 

https://i.pinimg.com...363fd28c974.jpg

Okay, maybe I was mixing up the years, I just remembered Long Beach being referred to as the US Grand Prix West. After a google search that was apparently in 1976 (and maybe some other years as well, dunno).

 

A7-E1-DA4-C-8517-4280-A085-91-AF5-AB15-A



#30 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:09

Yes there is, and that's why we had the Nurburgring race called Lux GP in '07 even though there was no German GP that year..


It was the European GP that year. It was a hangover from the deals that included Hockenheim hosting the German GP up to 2006. By 2009 it had been fixed.

The Luxembourg GP was only in 1997 and 98.

#31 Alan Lewis

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:37

Okay, maybe I was mixing up the years, I just remembered Long Beach being referred to as the US Grand Prix West. After a google search that was apparently in 1976 (and maybe some other years as well, dunno).

A7-E1-DA4-C-8517-4280-A085-91-AF5-AB15-A


The "West" was to distinguish from the US East race at Watkins Glen - which was originally just the US GP, of course. But that ended in 1980.

I had a feeling that Long Beach carried on with the US West title until it became an Indycar race in '84ish. But I'm not 100% sure.

#32 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:39

I mixed it a bit :D



#33 Ivanhoe

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 09:54

The "West" was to distinguish from the US East race at Watkins Glen - which was originally just the US GP, of course. But that ended in 1980.

I had a feeling that Long Beach carried on with the US West title until it became an Indycar race in '84ish. But I'm not 100% sure.

The official F1 website and racingsportscars.com indicate it as the US GP West from 1976 - 1983 and also US GP East for the races at the Glen in 1977-1980. On the other hand, motorsportsmagazine refers to it as the Long Beach GP (and the US GP for the race at the Glen). So yeah, I’m not sure either.



#34 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 10:21

A bit like Vegas. Sometimes called Caesars Palace GP, sometimes Las Vegas GP.



#35 absinthedude

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 10:56

A bit like Vegas. Sometimes called Caesars Palace GP, sometimes Las Vegas GP.

 

My recollection from the time is that lots of people talked about "the Las vegas GP" but the official title was the Caesars Palace GP. 

 

I'm still wondering if there's some hang up with legal rights to the titles "Mexican Grand Prix" and "Brazilian Grand Prix".

 

If by happy circumstance, Sergio finds himself leading Max....it only makes sense for Red Bull to switch them unless Lewis is way down the order. And I say that as someone who would love for Sergio to come good and win his home race, and as someone who doesn't like team orders. Sergio's already preparing the fans for that outcome, saying that everyone is thinking of the team. And what's best for the team is maximising the chances of the one RBR driver who can take the WDC this year. 



#36 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 11:08

I'm still wondering if there's some hang up with legal rights to the titles "Mexican Grand Prix" and "Brazilian Grand Prix".


Have the promoters changed for these races?

Usually the naming rights are sold to the promoters. That’s why Nurburgring 2007 was still the European GP as Hockenheim owned the rights to the German GP.

#37 Risil

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 11:12

Let it go. You cannot win.

 

To be completely honest, it's more hassle to remember what particular name the promoters have given the event than the country the event takes place in. So I can go on calling it the Mexican Grand Prix and dismiss anyone who corrects me as a pedant!



#38 Risil

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 11:15

It's a funny one though. Mess around the name of a very serious and important world championship Grand Prix, let alone put a sponsor in it, and I'm unreasonably irritated. In the US, who cares? They're racing in Fontana for the Treat My Clot 300? Bring it on!!



#39 Gareth

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 11:19

The F1 site seems to still reference them as Mexico and Brazil.

 

The full name for Brazil seems to be Sao Paulo.

 

For Mexico it looks like it's still Mexico in the full name?

 

F1 Schedule 2021 - Official Calendar of Grand Prix Races (formula1.com)



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#40 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:02

De la ciudad de Mexico. So Mexico City

#41 Fastcake

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:03

At one point in the past the title of Grand Prix was reserved for the main national motorsport event in a country. Later on, it became exclusive to Formula One, although a few existing events like Macau kept the name. It was the whole reason why we had the San Marino Grand Prix, to get around the rule by claiming it was the national GP of another country. Although there was also a special rule about a country hosting two events if they were far enough apart to give US two races, and then they just ignored it for the races in Las Vegas and Detroit. :lol:

I’m guessing that rule is long gone now. Although it is only recently we started having multiple Grands Prix in the same country again, and the previous occurrence in Spain obviously the hosts were perfectly happy to be the European Grand Prix instead of the Valencian GP. I do think it makes things a bit untidy and I don’t really like things like Brazil getting formally renamed São Paulo, even if it’s obvious everyone will ignore it. In the case of Imola, I do see why the Emilia-Romagna region - which is paying most of the cost - would prefer the race to be named after their part of the world and not advertising the nearby tax haven.

Have the promoters changed for these races?

Usually the naming rights are sold to the promoters. That’s why Nurburgring 2007 was still the European GP as Hockenheim owned the rights to the German GP.


I think that FOM usually keeps a strong hold on the naming rights, but in the case of Germany the promoter had trademarked the name a long time ago before Bernie could grab it.

#42 Gareth

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:32

De la ciudad de Mexico. So Mexico City

Thanks v much! I’m going to claim the lack of a capital threw me, but really I’m just a typical Brit who’s poor at languages.

#43 noriaki

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:38

As long as you name the World Championship GP's after a geographical location and/or whatever automotive club is the designated host, I am fine with that.

The only Grand Epreuve I refuse to acknowledge is the "70th Anniversary GP". >:(

#44 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:41

Thanks v much! I’m going to claim the lack of a capital threw me, but really I’m just a typical Brit who’s poor at languages.


If it makes you feel any better I wondered for years who Hermanos Rodriguez was, and why he was more deserving of a circuit being named in his honour than say, Pedro or Ricardo.

#45 Stephane

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 12:45

If it makes you feel any better I wondered for years who Hermanos Rodriguez was, and why he was more deserving of a circuit being named in his honour than say, Pedro or Ricardo.

:stoned: :drunk: :lol:



#46 PhilArny80

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 13:50

Yes, we had the US Grand Prix West (Long Beach), the Ceasars Palace Grand Prix and the Detroit Grand Prix.

 

In days gone by when Italy typically had two races, Imola became the San Marino Grand Prix and Monza hosted the Italian Grand Prix.

 

On occasions when a country hosted two, sometimes the second was given the title "European Grand Prix" such as 1985 when Silverstone had the British GP and Brands Hatch the European...1993 when Donington had the European GP....1995 when the Nurburgring held the European GP. 

 

Nothing new, all been done before.

 

More recently we've had the Emilia Romagna title given to the second Italian race. Sakhir given to the second Bahrain race. Styrian GP applied to the second Austiran. But it's probably the first time that a country has had it's one and only "national" grand prix not named after it....Mexico City and whatever they're calling Brazil these days. I wonder if there's some legal naming rights issues.

 

In the 1950s the "European Grand Prix" was awarded to one race as a secondary, honourific title. The actual title of the very first World Championship race was something like the 1950 European Grand Prix Incorporating the British Grand Prix. So you got both. For 1951 I think it was France which got the "European" honorific. 

The Abu Dhabi Grand Prix has never been called the UAE GP as far as I recall.



#47 jjcale

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 13:59

I guess I am the only one triggered that there is no title sponsor for the GP .... was expecting something like the Telcel Mexican GP. ... does no company in Mexico think this race is worth putting its name on (...at presumably a fair price)?? 



#48 pacificquay

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 14:05

I guess I am the only one triggered that there is no title sponsor for the GP .... was expecting something like the Telcel Mexican GP. ... does no company in Mexico think this race is worth putting its name on (...at presumably a fair price)?? 

 

Mexico City is the title sponsor



#49 jjcale

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 14:10

Oh ....



#50 ensign14

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Posted 05 November 2021 - 14:13

Back in the pre-war era you sometimes had the Italian GP and Monza GP at the same circuit in the same month with the same drivers in the same cars.

 

Plus in 1926 you had the European Grand Prix at Lasarte, followed a week later by the Spanish Grand Prix at Lasarte.  Only the European Grand Prix was run to the 1926 formula (so only had six cars) while the Spanish ran to the 1925 (so it had a field of 10).

 

But right back at the dawn of motor racing, there was only ever the Grand Prix.  When the Americans started their version, they called it the Grand Prize.  Other countries translate the term (Gran Premio &c) but it seems to be down to the narrow-minded swivel-eyed xenophobic Brits who honour the nation that invented the sport.