Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 2 votes

Hamilton and Verstappen, Brazil 2021


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3753 replies to this topic

Poll: Hamilton and Verstappen, Brazil 21 (517 member(s) have cast votes)

That Verstappen defence on Hamilton where they ended up off track

  1. Was ultimately acceptable, let them race (156 votes [30.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.17%

  2. Should have been a penalty (325 votes [62.86%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 62.86%

  3. Other response including don’t care (36 votes [6.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.96%

Vote

#1 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 18,567 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:22

No penalty (“of course”)

 

Should that be a penalty?



Advertisement

#2 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 6,460 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:23

Penalty. Rather had it they simply ordered him to let Hamilton by tbh, but that just wasnt on.



#3 TheFish

TheFish
  • Member

  • 2,391 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:25

Honestly can’t see how anyone can think it isn’t a penalty. The answer to being overtaken is to run someone off the road. It sets a horrible precedent. Doesn’t matter who is doing it, it’s not racing. It’s horrific from the stewards. What message does that send?

Would be amazed if anyone who says it’s ok doesn’t want Max to beat Lewis.

#4 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 14,274 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:27

Despite being a fellow countryman, I lost a lot of sympathy for Verstappen, that weaving on the straight is a big no-no  :down:

 

Edit: crowding should also be a penalty.



#5 bargeboard

bargeboard
  • Member

  • 490 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:28

Looked like Max crossed the "fair racing" line there.

#6 SilverArrow31

SilverArrow31
  • Member

  • 3,089 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:28

Despite being a fellow countryman, I lost a lot of sympathy for Verstappen, that weaving on the straight is a big no-no :down:


He's been weaving like that on the straight all year! I am amazed he only just got a warning now, it was insane at Silverstone but just got overshadowed by the clash

#7 Ramses1348

Ramses1348
  • Member

  • 945 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:28

that defense was not ok, should have been a penalty

#8 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 6,460 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:29

Despite being a fellow countryman, I lost a lot of sympathy for Verstappen, that weaving on the straight is a big no-no  :down:

 

Edit: crowding should also be a penalty.

I didnt like the crowding, but the weaving to break the tow is completely normal, no? He just weaved once and then chose the inside to defend?



#9 FullOppositeLock

FullOppositeLock
  • Member

  • 8,308 posts
  • Joined: September 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:29

Should definitely have been a penalty. No idea what Massi was thinking. Glad Lewis is winning. Would have been embarrassing if Max had won like that.

#10 Laster

Laster
  • Member

  • 2,652 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:29

It’s the same view I’ve always held. Being allowed to just release the brake pedal and run the person on the outside off the road means you can no longer over take on the outside. For me that was a penalty every time.

#11 engineblock1

engineblock1
  • Member

  • 881 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:29

There is no option for giving the place back without penalty. That could have been an option

#12 FullOppositeLock

FullOppositeLock
  • Member

  • 8,308 posts
  • Joined: September 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:30

Despite being a fellow countryman, I lost a lot of sympathy for Verstappen, that weaving on the straight is a big no-no :down:

Edit: crowding should also be a penalty.


I don’t mind the weaving that much, but the crowding was ridiculous.

#13 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 42,785 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:30

It was so obvious what he was doing that I'm laughing, glad that it didnt matter. Masi is embarrassing.



#14 carlb5253

carlb5253
  • Member

  • 1,209 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:31

Absolutely stonewall.

#15 FullOppositeLock

FullOppositeLock
  • Member

  • 8,308 posts
  • Joined: September 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:31

There is no option for giving the place back without penalty. That could have been an option


Well, that was on Red Bull and Max and sadly they didn’t do it, much to their shame.

#16 TheFish

TheFish
  • Member

  • 2,391 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:33

I hope Mercedes make a big public thing with this after the race. Sets an awful precedent for the last few races. If Max is ahead there’s no incentive to stop him misbehaving again.

#17 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 14,274 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:33

I didnt like the crowding, but the weaving to break the tow is completely normal, no? He just weaved once and then chose the inside to defend?

Hamilton was within DRS and preparing for an overtake. This is not about braking the tow of a car that’s 3-4 seconds behind you.



#18 Singularity

Singularity
  • Member

  • 766 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:33

I don't like it, I think driving like that should be penalized, but it is consistent with the decisions since Austria 2019



#19 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 6,460 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:34

Hamilton was within DRS and preparing for an overtake. This is not about braking the tow of a car that’s 3-4 seconds behind you.

He wasnt dangerously close, Verstappen did it at the beginning of the straight.



Advertisement

#20 KeithD68

KeithD68
  • Member

  • 341 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:34

If max is continually going to get away with it he's going to continually do it



#21 Heyli

Heyli
  • Member

  • 6,460 posts
  • Joined: May 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:34

Never mind.



#22 flyboym3

flyboym3
  • Member

  • 578 posts
  • Joined: July 21

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:35

Max has no class, always always dirty.

#23 Augurk

Augurk
  • Member

  • 5,136 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:36

I think we’ve seen drivers get away with worse (Lec Monza f.i.) but I didn’t like it and shouldn’t be allowed.

#24 Singularity

Singularity
  • Member

  • 766 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:37

I don't like it, I think driving like that should be penalized, but it is consistent with the decisions since Austria 2019

Sorry, 2020



#25 ebc

ebc
  • Member

  • 433 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:37

Nothing wrong with what Max did, that is hard racing, happens all the time.

#26 smitten

smitten
  • Member

  • 3,591 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:38

Naughty, naughty.  I thought he'd got past all that sort of stuff.



#27 TheFish

TheFish
  • Member

  • 2,391 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:38

Sorry, 2020
https://www.youtube....h?v=EHBgQw5OecA


Embarrassing. You know he got a penalty for that right?

#28 RPM40

RPM40
  • Member

  • 12,269 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:39

Max didn’t even stay on the track on a fairly straight forward corner, that’s how hard he was trying to run Lewis off the road.

It’s quite unbelievable that wasn’t seen as worthy of a penalty.

#29 Silberpfeil

Silberpfeil
  • Member

  • 1,167 posts
  • Joined: October 18

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:40

Penalty all day long. Hamilton would’ve made the corner, Verstappen very intentionally didn’t. Nice to see things got settled on track. As in, “between the white lines.”

#30 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,863 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:40

No penalty was a good decision. Keep racing incidents as they are.



#31 baku

baku
  • Member

  • 420 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:40

Great from the stewards. Great racing on the edge. If you dont like this, you should not watch racing!

Edited by baku, 14 November 2021 - 18:41.


#32 masa90

masa90
  • Member

  • 1,726 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:41

Should let him by. That was over the line.

#33 timmy bolt

timmy bolt
  • Member

  • 1,263 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:41

Wow. Actually amazed it wasnt even investigated. He braked later and on the inside. Never had a chance of making that corner. Really interested on what telemetry they had.

Boy got lucky.

Horners little radio call though. I don't think I've ever disliked a team boss more. Didn't like him back in the vettel days and don't like him now. One minute calling Hamilton dirty then the next trying to defend that nonsense.

#34 Singularity

Singularity
  • Member

  • 766 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:41

Embarrassing. You know he got a penalty for that right?

Yes, but that was the last time someone got a penalty for it.



#35 Huffer

Huffer
  • Member

  • 2,526 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:42

A clear penalty. I can't believe the FIA didn't investigate. It was obvious that Max didn't even attempt to make that corner - he went off track!? How is that even close to being acceptable racing? 


Edited by Huffer, 14 November 2021 - 18:43.


#36 ForzaFormula

ForzaFormula
  • Member

  • 1,981 posts
  • Joined: April 17

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:43

Hamilton would of got a penalty, FIA can't keep favouring max, has to be the same rules for everyone,



#37 Laster

Laster
  • Member

  • 2,652 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:43

Great from the stewards. Great racing on the edge. If you dont like this, you should not watch racing!

I like racing, I like seeing drivers being able to overtake around the outside. Moves like this prevent racing, it denies any opportunity to actually race on track by driving the other person off the road. If you like this, you should not watch racing.

#38 Clrnc

Clrnc
  • Member

  • 4,076 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:44

I think everyone here knows what Max was up to and it was a penalty, but I can understand why the stewards don't dare to call it because they have no clear evidence if Lewis was making the corner too. And I have a sneaky feeling they don't want to be the guys to decide the championship.

 

Anyway it didn't matter in the end so really can't be bothered about this incident now.



#39 keshav

keshav
  • Member

  • 2,150 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:44

If Hamilton would have done it, it would have been a penalty,

The FIA is really biased.

Advertisement

#40 baku

baku
  • Member

  • 420 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:45

I like racing, I like seeing drivers being able to overtake around the outside. Moves like this prevent racing, it denies any opportunity to actually race on track by driving the other person off the road. If you like this, you should not watch racing.


Well, I like it and I do watch racing!

#41 Showty

Showty
  • Member

  • 1,977 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:45

That was a slam dunk penalty.

You allow that, basically overtaking is impossible other than the straights.

#42 lewislorenzo

lewislorenzo
  • Member

  • 659 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:46

Max is a great driver but he doesn’t race fair. He did whaf Nico did in Austria 2016! Stewards bottled it

Edited by lewislorenzo, 14 November 2021 - 19:26.


#43 OneAndOnly

OneAndOnly
  • Member

  • 1,370 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:46

It was dirty racing and Max should at least give position back. But we’ve seen dirty driving from Hamilton (as well as others) go without penalty in the past. Let them race narrative destroyed clean racing and it started before Verstappen even was on the grid.

#44 flyboym3

flyboym3
  • Member

  • 578 posts
  • Joined: July 21

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:49

Have the FIA shown their cards this weekend?

Hmmm.

Lewis you were never supposed to do 8 times.

Edited by flyboym3, 14 November 2021 - 18:50.


#45 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 14,469 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:49

Reinstate the gravel trap there and it solves itself.

#46 timmy bolt

timmy bolt
  • Member

  • 1,263 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:50

That wasn't hard racing. If you can't be bothered to keep your car inside the white lines it isn't hard racing. It's just sh*t racing

#47 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 2,432 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:50

I think a rule where lobbying is an instant DQ from race as a deterrent needs considering.

 

Justice overcame today, but that was Schumacher type defending.

 

Bear in mind this decision came not long after a warning was given about gamesmanship, something really dodgy about the decision.


Edited by chrcol, 14 November 2021 - 18:51.


#48 UreaBorealis

UreaBorealis
  • Member

  • 1,984 posts
  • Joined: October 00

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:52

Having ended like it eventually did, glad there wasn't a penalty, even if I considered the defense dirty at the time. Max wouldn't have admitted any fault and will continue doing more of the same regardless, but this way he can't question the race result. He was beaten.



#49 Dmitriy_Guller

Dmitriy_Guller
  • Member

  • 5,663 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:52

I have tremendous respect for Verstappen as a driver, he's clearly a champion both in his driving and his mental composure.  However, I don't see myself ever rooting for him, because he's clearly in a mold of Schumacher ethics-wise.  When the stakes are high and he's on the losing end legitimately, I feel like he will do whatever it takes to come out ahead.  I wouldn't be surprised if the last race of the season would end in a collision between Verstappen and Hamilton, if Verstappen is just barely ahead on points.

 

To anyone who says "let them race", I agree completely.  I think drivers should be allowed to race, they shouldn't be driven off the road when they successfully manage to overtaken someone.



#50 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 2,432 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 November 2021 - 18:54

I like racing, I like seeing drivers being able to overtake around the outside. Moves like this prevent racing, it denies any opportunity to actually race on track by driving the other person off the road. If you like this, you should not watch racing.

 

The message seems to be the driver doing the overtaking has to be clean, the driver defending can do what he wants.  If this ends up becoming a thing for races to come, we about to see even less overtakes in F1 as lead driver just does everything possible to stay ahead.

 

Also where was gravel? F1 still has a problem that driving off track doesnt lose enough time.