588 replies to this topic

[mclara]

yet I don't see Sainz/Ferrari fans complaining.But Hamilton's fans are absoulutely gutted for poor Sainz.

This just keeps getting better.

 

So you didn't notice the all the remarks from teams and drivers in the Skysport f1 compilation posted yesterday?

And it is ok for you that the people in charge change or make up rules during a race when it creates inequality?

So when a neutral fan (which there is many of but some people like you seems to think its only Hamilton fans that has a issue with this) has issues with how the last lap at AD was handled then would it matter?

Or when does it matter?

[F1Johnny]

Nothing, that's the point. He could have logged off simply of Instagram or whatever social media to chill, or simply not post anything, instead he deleted everything (afaik, I'm not on insta). He could have issued a statement that he won't be commenting on the events (Lebron for instance post before playoffs about abstaining from social media). told the FIA/Masi to **** off in a lengthy post, whatever. For a guy that's so much about fans and using his voice this is weird. And no I'm not saying that he is obliged to comment or anything like that.

 

So he should have done what you expected of him? He has been silent, not said a word, but he's given a hard time for doing nothing during a time when he may very well want to reflect. Ridiculous.

[F1Johnny]

Yes. Hamilton and Rosberg were paired together in feeder series and Hamilton was the faster driver.

So he already knew he could beat Rosberg which was born out in 2014 and 2015. Rosberg had to dig deep to get the better of Hamilton in 2016.

 

Russell is an unknown. He could be great, he could be flawed. So I am sure there is some concern, as any driver would have about a new teammate who is difficult to read. When Bottas was signed, he had just barely IMO seen off Massa who had been Alonso's whipping boy. While driver A is better than driver B is better than driver A is not the best way of rating drivers, everyone does so, including drivers themselves apparently. So Hamilton wouldn't have been too concerned which proved correct.

 

Agreed that there is consideration given to who your teammate will be, but there are suggestions here that Lewis is running from George and is afraid of him.  Lewis' experience with teammates totally goes against that and just because Bottas didn't give him a hard time is not an indication that he is afraid of George.

[RekF1]

What for getting one decision wrong? Flip sake mate.

And the rest.

[DrivenF1]

This just keeps getting better.

So you didn't notice the all the remarks from teams and drivers in the Skysport f1 compilation posted yesterday?
And it is ok for you that the people in charge change or make up rules during a race when it creates inequality?
So when a neutral fan (which there is many of but some people like you seems to think its only Hamilton fans that has a issue with this) has issues with how the last lap at AD was handled then would it matter?
Or when does it matter?

Sorry, you’ve missed the point. Anyone who disagrees is a Hamilton fan and hugely biased, it’s a simple decision tree which really helps with rationalising situations.

I thought I heard Sainz complain about the decisions too and saying how odd they were. And Norris, Leclerc etc. however I may have imagined this all. If not, I think the drivers are a fairly good source for whether they felt personally wronged.

[gillesfan76]

Yes 

 

The way I read the above post is “Yes, but I’m lying”.

[mclara]

Sorry, you’ve missed the point. Anyone who disagrees is a Hamilton fan and hugely biased, it’s a simple decision tree which really helps with rationalising situations.

I thought I heard Sainz complain about the decisions too and saying how odd they were. And Norris, Leclerc etc. however I may have imagined this all. If not, I think the drivers are a fairly good source for whether they felt personally wronged.

No I haven't. I just asked a question based on what seems to be Dhillon's failed logic.

 

He seemed to imply that we either shouldn't care about injustice if one or more parties does not care about the injustice that took place, or that we shouldn't care about injustice if there is no one that looses out.

Do you think we should start to apply one of these principles in sport or in life in general?

[absinthedude]

No, for making it up as he went along. There is no trust in his ability or his impartiality now.

 

It's not like it's the first time he made a mistake this season either. There's a rather large thread about him.

 

It's certainly not one decision. While I've generally defended Masi, he's made lots of questionable and controversial decisions in the last couple of years. But this one was certainly the biggest, most blatant and indicates he's not up to the job.

 

It is also quite possible that the job itself is too much for one person. There needs to be two people with clearly defined roles, to smoothly run the race according to established rules and procedures. 

 

And yes Dhillon, you do see Sainz fans complaining that he wasn't given his chance too. That was a big part of why Masi's decision was *so* wrong. Sainz should have had his chance, Tsunoda should have had his, and so on. It was grossly unfair to everyone. 

[YamahaV10]

People really need to give Lewis more respect. He showed this season he is still fast as ever…especially on a Sunday. He has no reason to be “scared” of George

George out qualified him in a Williams in 2021. So there's that

[Topsu]

If you told me in Sakhir 2020 that it was Lewis driving the non-Bottas Mercedes, and that he had simply changed his driver number and helmet, I'd have believed it. George's performance couldn't have been more worrisome for Lewis.

[lewislorenzo]

@YamahaV10 with a wet set up and by 1 tenth…

[DeKnyff]

If you told me in Sakhir 2020 that it was Lewis driving the non-Bottas Mercedes, and that he had simply changed his driver number and helmet, I'd have believed it. George's performance couldn't have been more worrisome for Lewis.

 

Bottas outqualified Russell, but he had a bad start (something that can happen to anyone) and Russell took the lead at a circuit where overtaking with the same car and same tyres was very difficult. Later, the pitstop mess killed both driver's races. Yes, Russell overtook Bottas, but the latter was on thirty laps old tyres.

 

All in all, a good race by Russell, but not the point of claiming he is on pair with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best F1 drivers ever. We will need at least half a season to establish where George Russell really is in relationship to Lewis.

[as65p]

Bottas outqualified Russell, but he had a bad start (something that can happen to anyone) and Russell took the lead at a circuit where overtaking with the same car and same tyres was very difficult. Later, the pitstop mess killed both driver's races. Yes, Russell overtook Bottas, but the latter was on thirty laps old tyres.

 

All in all, a good race by Russell, but not the point of claiming he is on pair with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best F1 drivers ever. We will need at least half a season to establish where George Russell really is in relationship to Lewis.

That's true, but Topsus statement is too:

George's performance couldn't have been more worrisome for Lewis.

 

Russells performance was as good as they come for someone driving a car first time in anger. It could be a fluke of course, but it's all we have right now, Russel being at least Bottas level out of the box, which is quite impressive and promising a lot of potential.

[Wolbo]

If you told me in Sakhir 2020 that it was Lewis driving the non-Bottas Mercedes, and that he had simply changed his driver number and helmet, I'd have believed it. George's performance couldn't have been more worrisome for Lewis.

Hamilton quickly got back in the car for Abu Dhabi. He wasn't going to give Russell another chance to shine.

[William Hunt]

That's true, but Topsus statement is too:

 

Russells performance was as good as they come for someone driving a car first time in anger. It could be a fluke of course, but it's all we have right now, Russel being at least Bottas level out of the box, which is quite impressive and promising a lot of potential.

 

The Mercedes was a much easier car to drive as the Williams so no surprise that Russell was immediately competitive in it.

[as65p]

The Mercedes was a much easier car to drive as the Williams so no surprise that Russell was immediately competitive in it.

That seems to depend. How many times was it said how incredibly hard Hamilton has to work to tame the "diva"?

[HeadFirst]

That seems to depend. How many times was it said how incredibly hard Hamilton has to work to tame the "diva"?

 

I don't know, are you counting? I would guess it is far less than the claims that the Merc is a superior car to the RB, but I really don't know. I also wonder how many times it has been said that the RB is so sensitive, that only Max can tame it. Interesting line of thinking.

[as65p]

I don't know, are you counting? I would guess it is far less than the claims that the Merc is a superior car to the RB, but I really don't know. I also wonder how many times it has been said that the RB is so sensitive, that only Max can tame it. Interesting line of thinking.

Interesting way of "and now to something completely different", more like.

[crespo]

The best thing that happened to Lewis' contract negotiations was George getting that puncture in Bahrain.

 

Had George come back and overtaken Checo for the lead in that race, and shown what he was able to do on his first time out in that car, Lewis would have lost a ton of negotiating power.

[CoolBreeze]

Bottas outqualified Russell, but he had a bad start (something that can happen to anyone) and Russell took the lead at a circuit where overtaking with the same car and same tyres was very difficult. Later, the pitstop mess killed both driver's races. Yes, Russell overtook Bottas, but the latter was on thirty laps old tyres.

 

All in all, a good race by Russell, but not the point of claiming he is on pair with Lewis Hamilton, one of the best F1 drivers ever. We will need at least half a season to establish where George Russell really is in relationship to Lewis.

Dude turned up with no proper seats, smaller racing boots to compensate the size situation, and whooped bottas. IMO Lewis should be more worried of George than Max.

[DrivenF1]

I’m a big Russell fan but let’s not overplay Sakhir - this was a relatively simple track and an unusual weekend. He did exceptionally but one race is only an indication - off the back of Bahrain (race 1 of 2021) we might have expected Ricciardo to outperform Norris during the season or an amazing season from Tsunoda. Russell is going to be a risk in Q which is a potential issue for Hamilton, but race pace is 100% unknown. This is where Hamilton is strongest relative to other skills.

[Cyanide]

The Mercedes was a much easier car to drive as the Williams so no surprise that Russell was immediately competitive in it.

 

That's a far fetched conclusion, considering we've seen solid drivers this year 'jumping' into quite good seats and struggling. 

[Tenmantaylor]

Other than Lewis’ fans no one actually believes RD made that decision just to hand the title to Max.

But in the absence of an explanation of his actions it looks that way.

[Dhillon]

I’m a big Russell fan but let’s not overplay Sakhir - this was a relatively simple track and an unusual weekend. 

 

Well he did enough to deserver atleast one more chance in AD, but I guess Lewis and Toto didn't want to find out 

[Dhillon]

But in the absence of an explanation of his actions it looks that way.

 

No it doesn't. 

Masi is silent != He manipulate to give Max the title.

[PitViperRacing]

No it doesn't. 

Masi is silent != He manipulate to give Max the title.

Can we just leave this issue alone? People are well entrenched in their camps and positions have been explained ad nauseum (not targeting you specifically).

[absinthedude]

I’m a big Russell fan but let’s not overplay Sakhir - this was a relatively simple track and an unusual weekend. He did exceptionally but one race is only an indication - off the back of Bahrain (race 1 of 2021) we might have expected Ricciardo to outperform Norris during the season or an amazing season from Tsunoda. Russell is going to be a risk in Q which is a potential issue for Hamilton, but race pace is 100% unknown. This is where Hamilton is strongest relative to other skills.

 

There are people on this board who are just cherry picking the available info, in a now quite desperate attempt to try and "prove" that Lewis is scared. Honestly it's the Donald Trump school of debate....shout loud enough and some people will listen.

 

But in the end, it's simply making stuff up to fit a pre-determined narrative. Which is why it would make a good work of fiction. 

 

We've now had that he is simultaneously being a hermit and acting out, an armchair diagnosis of narcissism - which certainly doesn't fit with the hermit story....he's scared of Russell...he's scared of Max....he would prefer to pursue a career in music....i've probably missed some too...but it's all simply made up. 

[absinthedude]

Other than Lewis’ fans no one actually believes RD made that decision just to hand the title to Max.

 

What a load of utter dingo's kidneys. You've been told time and time again that people who don't support any specific driver (like myself) are disgusted. Some Max fans acknowledge it was the wrong decision. You've had Sainz's supporters point out that he was screwed too.

 

STOP MAKING CRAP UP

[Beri]

What a load of utter dingo's kidneys. You've been told time and time again that people who don't support any specific driver (like myself) are disgusted. Some Max fans acknowledge it was the wrong decision. You've had Sainz's supporters point out that he was screwed too.
 
STOP MAKING CRAP UP

Still my (unpopular) opinion; Masi didn't do anything wrong.

[IrvTheSwerve]

This thread is a bit of a mess, isn’t it?   

[Rocket73]

The way I read the above post is “Yes, but I’m lying”.

 

It was meant to come across as yes but I know you won't believe me.

 

I am under no illusion that Lewis suffered a major sporting injustice. I just think the reaction has been way over the top and still is. No one died.

 

Max still gets reams of hate on twitter. He didn't do anything wrong. He suffered more bad luck last season.

[Dhillon]

Still my (unpopular) opinion; Masi didn't do anything wrong.

 

I am with you on this, Not Masi fault that Lewis stayed on 40 lap old tyres.

[Dhillon]

What a load of utter dingo's kidneys. You've been told time and time again that people who don't support any specific driver (like myself) are disgusted. Some Max fans acknowledge it was the wrong decision. You've had Sainz's supporters point out that he was screwed too.

 

STOP MAKING CRAP UP

 

Wrong decision is not the same as "Masi schemed to give Max the title"

& hard to beleive you don't support a "specific driver". 

Edited by Dhillon, 16 January 2022 - 09:55.

[absinthedude]

I am with you on this, Not Masi fault that Lewis stayed on 40 lap old tyres.

 

Mercedes had to assume the rules and established procedures would be followed. If they'd changed tyres, there's a good likelihood he'd have fallen behind Max, with the expected outcome that either the race would not restart or that it would restart without lapped cars being permitted to unlap themselves. In either of the predictable cases, it made the most sense for Lewis to stay out on his old tyres. 

 

As with *everything* you've posted, this is a non-argument. 

[absinthedude]

Wrong decision is not the same as "Masi schemed to give Max the title"

& hard to beleive you don't support a "specific driver". 

 

Bye. I have nothing ever to say to you again after your last insult. 

[Dhillon]

Bye. I have nothing ever to say to you again after your last insult.

I take my comment back. I sincerely did not meant to upset you. Cheers.

[MaroF1]

Mercedes had to assume the rules and established procedures would be followed. If they'd changed tyres, there's a good likelihood he'd have fallen behind Max, with the expected outcome that either the race would not restart or that it would restart without lapped cars being permitted to unlap themselves. In either of the predictable cases, it made the most sense for Lewis to stay out on his old tyres. 

 

As with *everything* you've posted, this is a non-argument. 

 

How the hell did Mercedes know that SC will be out all the way untill lap 57 though?

Maybe the debris would be cleared on lap 56 and they would be in trouble either way. Also I don't really get why people are angry that only some lapped runners weren't let through, but if they let all of them it wouldn't change the end-result. If he let all of them pass, then you would say rules have to be followed and they should finish behind the SC, I agree but the track was clear, and we had a chance to finish the championship under green flag, and Masi took that option (but he stupidly also allowed some cars through that ironically were between Lewis and Max which polluted some people's minds and they started to think it was rigged). 

My point is, if he let all of them through I would't be against that decision at all because if the track is clear and it's a specific situation that you only have 1 lap remaining in the season but the rules imply that the lap has to be finished behind of the SC, just because lapped runners can catch the queue, but as said, it's the final lap of the championship and the track has no debris, green flag it for Pete's sakes.

And Mercedes did take a huge risk for staying out 40 old hards, they certainly didn't know that the race won't be restarted hence Hamilton swearing all the time on the radio when the SC was deployed, they just took a risk and it in the end that risk was partially the reason why they lost. 

It's just not Masi's fault and stop making it like it is, Mercedes were greedy and wanted to play it safe at the same time, and it backfired.

Unfortunately we will talk about this all the way to Bahrain, hopefully some repercussions are decisions will be made and, firing people won't solve the issue, and frankly I think Masi didn't make the decision on his own, maybe Liberty or FIA were involved as well and that's why they are trying it so hard to cover it up or make it look like it isn't a big deal, so blaming it all on one individual is foolish.

[smitten]

How the hell did Mercedes know that SC will be out all the way untill lap 57 though?

They didn't.  They gambled - and they gambled correctly.

 

Then Masi changed the rules.

[SophieB]

As noted by the reports received, this tread is becoming big on insults but small on news or insight on the central question of whether Lewis will be punching the clock in F1 land in 2022. I would usually say PM for the thread to be re-opened when there's significant actual news but just start a new thread. It's not great for the community to be taking potshots at each over because people are getting frustrated at going over the same ground endlessly, and indeed turning it into another space for arguing about final race of the season. 

 

Discussion by PM only if required, many thanks.