Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

The future of Qatar GP


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

Poll: The future of Qatar GP (48 member(s) have cast votes)

Which would you prefer for the future of the Qatar GP?

  1. Losail (33 votes [68.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.75%

  2. The rumoured street circuit in Doha (15 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 7,420 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 November 2021 - 18:32

As you may or may not know, in addition to this year's Qatar GP the country signed a 10-year deal to host a race from 2023 onwards but the circuit where the race will take place isn't specified. A street circuit in Doha is widely assumed to be the likely long-term solution but return to Losail, where we saw F1 race for the first time a few days ago, isn't out of the question yet.

 

Now that we saw what the permanent circuit has to offer, what do you think about the future of this Grand Prix? Was Losail, despite mostly pessimistic predictions, good enough to become more than just a one-off? Or would you prefer something different, however it might look?



Advertisement

#2 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 18,110 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 24 November 2021 - 18:40

I’d prefer them to keep going to Losail for the fairly simple (simplistic?) reason that I generally prefer purpose built tracks to street circuits. Obviously there are some real duds of purpose built tracks too, but still. Was disappointed to hear in the race thread that we probably won’t be seeing this for F1 in the medium to long term.



#3 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,299 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 November 2021 - 18:46

I think Losail worked really well, and even had a decent crowd. No need to have another street race when there's a suitable purpose built track.



#4 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 13,742 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 24 November 2021 - 18:53

As you may or may not know, in addition to this year's Qatar GP the country signed a 10-year deal to host a race from 2023 onwards but the circuit where the race will take place isn't specified. A street circuit in Doha is widely assumed to be the likely long-term solution but return to Losail, where we saw F1 race for the first time a few days ago, isn't out of the question yet.

 

Now that we saw what the permanent circuit has to offer, what do you think about the future of this Grand Prix? Was Losail, despite mostly pessimistic predictions, good enough to become more than just a one-off? Or would you prefer something different, however it might look?

 

I’d say with Singapore, Melbourne, Montreal, Baku, Jeddah, Miami and Monaco we have enough (semi) street circuits on the calendar. So Losail for me please. It also looked like a real cool track to drive and racing wasn’t that bad. 



#5 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 19,834 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 24 November 2021 - 18:58

The F1 cars looked better than I expected around Losail, and there also seemed to be a bit more racing that expected too, so not against them going back there.  And also best that they don't overload the championship with street track desert night races.


Edited by P123, 24 November 2021 - 18:58.


#6 HerbieMcQueen

HerbieMcQueen
  • Member

  • 789 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 24 November 2021 - 19:05

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.



#7 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 16,234 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:06

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



#8 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 16,234 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:07

Have we seen the new street circuit? If not then there's not much point in the poll.

 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.



#9 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 1,092 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:11

Losail was fine. We don't need yet another street circuit on the calendar, especially as we have the new Saudi GP.



#10 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 3,670 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:17

I really dislike this push towards more street circuits, we need less of those and not more.

#11 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 3,670 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:19

For what it’s worth I thought the Qatar race was great, not easy to overtake but still able to and we had some great battles.

#12 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,740 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 24 November 2021 - 21:19

The drivers seemed to enjoy themselves at Losail, and it seems to be a circuit where they can make a meaningful performance difference, certainly more so than at Barcelona or Shanghai. It felt more like a flat Istanbul Park than a clone of Sakhir. Plus, everything at Losail feels in proportion - no enormous straight or unnecessarily banked corner just for bragging rights. I’d keep it.


Edited by wj_gibson, 24 November 2021 - 21:21.


#13 flyboym3

flyboym3
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: July 21

Posted 24 November 2021 - 22:02

Apart from p1 P2 I thought the racing down the grid was brilliant to watch. Almost a perfect normal track.

#14 Calum

Calum
  • Member

  • 726 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 24 November 2021 - 22:02

I’ll probably appreciate Losail more as I recognise the corners more. Bahrain, I can quickly tell exactly where they are when the cameras cut to a different car. Losail, I was lost in the blandness.

If the 10 year deal stays in Losail it will be entertaining enough, but also open to a Baku or Jeddah style fast street circuit.

#15 messy

messy
  • Member

  • 5,778 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 24 November 2021 - 22:22

I mean, I think Losail is fairly bland - but I get the point about less street circuits and more purpose built ones, agreed. I think it’s because the street circuits F1 favours just aren’t interesting - seems like they care more about 6km DRS zones and being able to place as many ad hoardings as they possibly can into shot than actually making the tracks good. If we’re talking the kind of ‘classic’ CART type street circuits, or even Adelaide etc, then count me in - but we’re not are we. So much as Losail is a bit drab and not the best for racing, I’d rather that than yet another crap street circuit.

#16 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 5,626 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 24 November 2021 - 22:28

A few mentions of "good racing" in this thread but there's one observation I have.

 

It's been typical for the last few years to have pretty good racing on circuits where everybody expected it to be bad and it makes me think the ever growing problem of dirty air and increasing DRS effect to counter it has somewhat switched the balance of what's needed to produce good racing for F1 cars. Circuits that used to be difficult for overtaking are now OK, because they often hit that sweet spot of DRS making two cars to come together at the right point to have some meaningful battles instead of overtakings done halfway through the main straight. But I feel this balance is pretty fragile.

 

The 2022 cars might switch that balance again in a different direction and I would be very catious about predicting what circuits will prove to be entertaining in the future. I'm not saying towards which direction it will change but it's pretty likely there will be some change with such a different generation of cars.



#17 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 19,514 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 24 November 2021 - 23:50

Qatar only wants an F1 race so it can attract tourists to the country, so I guess it will be held on a street circuit in Doha. It doesn't matter what drivers or fans prefer.

By the way, did you hear about the two Norwegian journalists who were arrested in Qatar the other day? https://www.nrk.no/u...ager-1.15744167 https://www.theguard...ld-cup-arrested



#18 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,233 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 00:15

By the way, did you hear about the two Norwegian journalists who were arrested in Qatar the other day? https://www.nrk.no/u...ager-1.15744167 https://www.theguard...ld-cup-arrested

 

Posted about it in the Qatar race thread.

FIFA haven't dared to give any critic to Qatar for it. Amazing, they got home without any electronic equipment which is still in Qatar, they never got charged with anything though. But they got money, which is everything.



#19 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 3,558 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 November 2021 - 00:46

Have not seen any of the street layout. So hard to say. But Losail was a good one.



Advertisement

#20 Exumer

Exumer
  • Member

  • 319 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 25 November 2021 - 00:56

Losail was fine I thought, good racing.



#21 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,284 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:08

I would have liked the option of 'None of the above'. 



#22 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 20,709 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:08

Losail was a surprisingly good race track. Not just for the overtaking but I thought that final sector looked great to drive, with all the high speed corners. I say keep it (and dig out of the ground and transport it to another location).

#23 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 6,918 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 25 November 2021 - 07:49

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery. 



#24 Stephane

Stephane
  • Member

  • 3,385 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 10:05

Alonso on Gasly, but it was lap 1, it's always different



#25 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 3,076 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 25 November 2021 - 10:47

I wouldn't mind a street circuit as long as it's closer to circuits like Baku and Saudi (from what we've seen so far) and not like Singapore, Valencia and Monaco. It's got to be reasonably flowing.

#26 absinthedude

absinthedude
  • Member

  • 3,739 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 25 November 2021 - 11:25

I'm uneasy about racing in Qatar, but Losail worked better than I expected. It was an entertaining race so from a point of view purely looking at the track....I would say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

Street circuits can bring something different and new to F1 and there was a time when we had too few, but they do need to have a USP. 



#27 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 12,233 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 11:25

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery.


Perez had one pass that was not DRS/T1/L1 that I noted.

#28 JimmyClark

JimmyClark
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 25 November 2021 - 11:43

This is what Joe Saward says about the new circuit:

 

We hear that the plans are focussed on the West Bay district, which is known as the diplomatic district around the City Center Mall and the Exhibition and Convention Centre. It will no doubt include sections of the Corniche which runs along the waterfront, adding a little Monaco spice to the venue. The aim is for the track to be very high speed, so that it will produce good racing, as has been seen in Baku in recent years, with the likelihood of the race happening at night, thus adding a little bit of Singapore magic to the mix.

 

It is basically going to be Jeddah Mk 2 .



#29 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 20,709 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 25 November 2021 - 12:28

This is what Joe Saward says about the new circuit:

 

 

 

 

It is basically going to be Jeddah Mk 2 .

 

Maybe something like this, anti-clockwise

 

WBGznDH.jpg

 

With a chicane or two and little detours if necessary.


Edited by noikeee, 25 November 2021 - 12:29.


#30 SilverArrow31

SilverArrow31
  • Member

  • 2,984 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 25 November 2021 - 12:57

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings



#31 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 5,626 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 25 November 2021 - 13:07

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits

Is it really FOM's obsession, though?

 

I think they're just going anywhere where there are hosts ready to pay the hosting fee- and what type of circuit- as long as it meets the Grade One circuit criteria- they decide to provide- I don't think FOM is that obsessed with.
 



#32 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 3,076 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 25 November 2021 - 13:29

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings

If you're paying tens of millions of dollars to promote your city and increase tourism, a race in the middle of nowhere (Losail) isn't exactly going to encourage people to visit.



#33 JimmyClark

JimmyClark
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 25 November 2021 - 13:52

I really do not understand FOM's obsession with street circuits, it seems that every new or potential track nowadays is one, and more often than not they are Valencia clones. We need a range of circuits that hopefully can bring something unique, I love that we have a season that includes Silverstone, Spa and Singapore, F1 racing in the fields, the trees and the buildings

 

It's not that bad when you think about it though; if you look at the 2022 calendar: 

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (CLASSIC)

Imola, Barcelona, Silverstone, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Spa, Zandvoort, Monza, Suzuka, Mexico City, Interlagos

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (MODERN)

Bahrain, Paul Ricard, Sochi, Austin, Abu Dhabi

 

TEMPORARY PARK CIRCUITS

Melbourne, Miami, Montreal, 

 

TEMPORARY STREET CIRCUITS

Jeddah, Monaco, Baku, Singapore, 

 

 

So actually only 4 of the 23 races are bona fide street circuits, and if you include the park circuits then that is still less than a third. 

 

I think overall there is a good balance at the moment. 

 

But yes I agree, if we get to 50% of the calendar being temporary tracks in the future, then that is probably too much. I don't mind too much if it's modern circuits dropping out for them though (I really don't miss Shanghai at the moment, for example) - but if we lose the likes of Interlagos or Spa for these tracks, it would be sad indeed. 


Edited by JimmyClark, 25 November 2021 - 13:53.


#34 engineblock1

engineblock1
  • Member

  • 838 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 13:59

OK in all honesty, we dont know how is the street circuit going to look like but overall increased inclusion of street circuits goes against what F1 is trying to achieve - better racing and overtaking. So I'd rather keep Losail which doesnt appear as glamorous and sounds like copy of Bahrain but offered good racing. Even Bahrain had some great races lately.

People might use Azerbaijan as example but I think the racing events in some races held there have contributed to a good race rather than circuit itself.

 

I dont dislike street circuits, but I just wouldnt want to see more than 2,3 in a season.



#35 JimmyClark

JimmyClark
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 25 November 2021 - 14:22

OK in all honesty, we dont know how is the street circuit going to look like but overall increased inclusion of street circuits goes against what F1 is trying to achieve - better racing and overtaking. So I'd rather keep Losail which doesnt appear as glamorous and sounds like copy of Bahrain but offered good racing. Even Bahrain had some great races lately.

People might use Azerbaijan as example but I think the racing events in some races held there have contributed to a good race rather than circuit itself.

 

I dont dislike street circuits, but I just wouldnt want to see more than 2,3 in a season.

 

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. And they are clearly designing them with racing in mind - we can't say much about Jeddah until we see a race there, but we know Baku is pretty good for racing down the main straight, and Vietnam probably would have had some insane overtaking spots had it happened. And you have a point that the events in Baku make the races but, but street circuit generally do have more jeopardy which does increase the likelihood of such events. So I think the days of making a street circuit like Singapore are over. 

 

As fans, we are delighted to see Imola back on the claendar, for example, but it does kind of go against 'racing and overtaking'. But I get so much more satisfaction out of watching a standard dry Imola race than a Bahrain overtaking fest.  

 

There was a time back in the day when all circuits were based on public roads and streets... 



#36 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 44,662 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 25 November 2021 - 17:07

It's not that bad when you think about it though; if you look at the 2022 calendar: 

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (CLASSIC)

Imola, Barcelona, Silverstone, Red Bull Ring, Hungaroring, Spa, Zandvoort, Monza, Suzuka, Mexico City, Interlagos

 

PERMANENT CIRCUITS (MODERN)

Bahrain, Paul Ricard, Sochi, Austin, Abu Dhabi

 

I'm nit picking but Paul Ricard is older than Barcelona and the Hungaroring. It's hardly a classic circuit though!



#37 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 16,234 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 25 November 2021 - 17:11

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. 

 

Why do they have to do this though?  Why can't you build an actual circuit somewhere, and the product be so good that people come from far away just to see it?  Or is it an admission that the product isn't very good, so they are playing the "captive audience" game by cramming F1 races into the middle of a city center hoping that tourist can't avoid the event. That is a miserable state of affairs is it not? 


Edited by ARTGP, 25 November 2021 - 17:11.


#38 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 21,957 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 25 November 2021 - 17:26

Not bovvered,me.  Losail is as bland a race track as you could devise.  It makes Barcelona look exciting.  Street tracks are garbage.  So it is a choice of the worst of either world.  Best idea would be to NEVER go back to Qatar again.  Ever.



#39 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,299 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 17:58

Why do they have to do this though?  Why can't you build an actual circuit somewhere, and the product be so good that people come from far away just to see it?  Or is it an admission that the product isn't very good, so they are playing the "captive audience" game by cramming F1 races into the middle of a city center hoping that tourist can't avoid the event. That is a miserable state of affairs is it not? 

We’re apparently living in a world where even a 10 minute drive is too much to expect from fans, as evidenced by the Detroit Indy GP moving back to downtown from Belle Isle Park.



Advertisement

#40 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 7,420 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 25 November 2021 - 18:46

I thought it raced better than I expected, but thinking back, was there any passes NOT at T1/DRS straight?

Ocon got his wheels back ahead of Perez into 3, but that was using ALL his battery. 

 

That's what I was thinking as well, it just met the bare minimum to be considered raceable. And it's just so extremely bland. Flat and featureless, not a single interesting corner, and pretty much nothing around it so it looks like it exists in some void - and it's not just the night race since it has the same feeling during the day. So I'm slightly on the street circuit side.


Edited by Anja, 25 November 2021 - 18:50.


#41 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,740 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 25 November 2021 - 19:40

F1's aim is to bring the sport to the people, and street races are doing just that. And they are clearly designing them with racing in mind - we can't say much about Jeddah until we see a race there, but we know Baku is pretty good for racing down the main straight, and Vietnam probably would have had some insane overtaking spots had it happened. And you have a point that the events in Baku make the races but, but street circuit generally do have more jeopardy which does increase the likelihood of such events. So I think the days of making a street circuit like Singapore are over. 

 

As fans, we are delighted to see Imola back on the claendar, for example, but it does kind of go against 'racing and overtaking'. But I get so much more satisfaction out of watching a standard dry Imola race than a Bahrain overtaking fest.  

 

There was a time back in the day when all circuits were based on public roads and streets... 

 

Whilst this is true (the “bringing F1 to the people”) it’s not like the Losail circuit is in the middle of nowhere. It is the equivalent of a British GP at Brands Hatch in terms of closeness to a major population centre.



#42 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 21,957 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 25 November 2021 - 20:37

We’re apparently living in a world where even a 10 minute drive is too much to expect from fans, as evidenced by the Detroit Indy GP moving back to downtown from Belle Isle Park.

Not sure whether any Indycar fans were in fact ever consulted about that move?



#43 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,576 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 25 November 2021 - 20:43

No more street circuits, I am a race fan not a parade fan.



#44 JimmyClark

JimmyClark
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 25 November 2021 - 22:16

I'm nit picking but Paul Ricard is older than Barcelona and the Hungaroring. It's hardly a classic circuit though!

 

knew someone would say this - but there was no way I could put Paul Ricard as a 'classic' circuit when in its modern emasculated form it shared many more characterictics with Tilkedromes than the actual 'classic' circuits listed. 


Edited by JimmyClark, 25 November 2021 - 22:17.


#45 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,299 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 25 November 2021 - 22:23

knew someone would say this - but there was no way I could put Paul Ricard as a 'classic' circuit when in its modern emasculated form it shared many more characterictics with Tilkedromes than the actual 'classic' circuits listed. 

But even when it was built is was as bland as it is today.



#46 JimmyClark

JimmyClark
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 26 November 2021 - 00:11

But even when it was built is was as bland as it is today.

To be fair not really compared to now, as the straight was something different and the runoffs had more jeopardy. But yes it was super boring compared to contemporary circuits at the time.

But surely that justifies me putting it in the category as a bland modern circuit anyway?

Edited by JimmyClark, 26 November 2021 - 00:14.


#47 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 32,299 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 November 2021 - 07:39

To be fair not really compared to now, as the straight was something different and the runoffs had more jeopardy. But yes it was super boring compared to contemporary circuits at the time.

But surely that justifies me putting it in the category as a bland modern circuit anyway?

I think it’s padding the list. It’s barely changed since it was built.



#48 macjim

macjim
  • New Member

  • 6 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 26 November 2021 - 08:47

Not fussed tbh, it was pretty bland - it could have been Bahrain and we'd have struggled to notice the difference.



#49 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 8,334 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 November 2021 - 15:30

Can we have an option for 'neither'?

#50 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 9,710 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 26 November 2021 - 15:34

Not fussed tbh, it was pretty bland - it could have been Bahrain and we'd have struggled to notice the difference.

 

Correction: you'd have struggled to notice the difference.

 

I imagine the Arabs saying on their motorsport forum: so which one is Spa? They all look the same to me - green grass and trees everywhere. How do they tell them apart? And please no more of those undulating tracks. The mountains aren't easy on the eyes. It figures though, they are poor. Imagine having to drive those Volkswagens and Renaults all your life. Poor bastards. But if we have to race in impoverished countries due to tradition, so be it.


Edited by Dolph, 26 November 2021 - 15:38.