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Best runner up WDC performance?


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#351 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:02

I suspect he's mixed y'all up with me.


I am still awaiting a post which actually refutes what I believe to be facts that I posted regarding Benetton's behaviour in 1994. Insults and non-sequiturs are all that have been posted in response.


I addressed some of that post but you’ve not acknowledged it. So I don’t know if you’re ignoring it or if you agree.

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#352 Ferrim

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:24

As the length of a thread on the Atlas F1 / Autosport Forums grows, the likelihood of the Benetton B194's legality being discussed tends to 1. I hold this as a self-evident truth :)

 

(...) illegally overtaking the leader on the formation lap, doing it again (...)  

 

 
1994 and this particular incident has been discussed a gazillion times. And indeed Schumacher overtook Hill on both formation laps, but he also "did it again" on a different kind of way, which I very rarely see mentioned: Senna at Interlagos. It can barely be seen on the live footage, but IIRC he does it down the back straight, then gives the position back at turn 5 or 6.
 
 

Ross Brawn, Pat Symonds, Willem Toet (I think he was still at Benetton at the time), Rory Byrne?

 

In fact, Toet wrote an article several years ago on which he discusses traction control on the B194: https://www.linkedin...rol-willem-toet

Edited by Ferrim, 03 December 2021 - 10:26.


#353 Dhillon

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:26

I suspect he's mixed y'all up with me.


I am still awaiting a post which actually refutes what I believe to be facts that I posted regarding Benetton's behaviour in 1994. Insults and non-sequiturs are all that have been posted in response.


You have provided no facts, Just your beliefs.

#354 Requiem84

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 10:44

I'd suggest to discuss the topic of Benetton's (alleged) illegality in certain years in a separate topic, as it dilutes from the actual thing we are trying to discuss here, best #2 WDC performances. 



#355 Peeko

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 13:08

I suspect he's mixed y'all up with me. 

 

 

I am still awaiting a post which actually refutes what I believe to be facts that I posted regarding Benetton's behaviour in 1994. Insults and non-sequiturs are all that have been posted in response. 

You listed 'facts' that you claimed could only be proven by two individuals in a team of several. This is false; many names have been provided that would have information regarding the legality of the Benetton.  Did you watch the video with Frank Dernie?  Were his comments non-sequitur?



#356 BerniesDad

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 13:32

Although probably not in the running for *best performance*, Massa was in effect the world champion when he crossed the line in <whatever year that was>. (It was only after he had finished his race that Hamilton passed , err... Timo Glock for the points he needed to surpass Massa).

That surely makes him one of the closest near-misses to being a world champion.



#357 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 13:47

I'd suggest to discuss the topic of Benetton's (alleged) illegality in certain years in a separate topic, as it dilutes from the actual thing we are trying to discuss here, best #2 WDC performances. 

 

Putting on a digital asbestos fire suit on before I dare to say:

 

 

With regards to the events of 1994, (but also to an extend about what happened before that and lead to those events) one of the best manners of getting a decent insight of the big majority of all that is Ibrar Malik's book;  1994 the untold story.

 

But with one good piece of advice to they who either warship either Senna or Schumacher and/or think that either Senna or Schumacher is the most disgusting creep ever in F1.

 

Read this book in a neutral mood, try to forget your personal preferences and opinions about those two individuals.

Impossible to many, including some posters out here.

But if you can, this book will provide you with new insights that occasionally will force you to at least change your opinion into at least giving it a thought or giving a theory the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

DISCLAIMER:  I have no personal interest to promote this book. But if it comes to the toxity of the 1994 season, I felt this book to be one of the best sources of info about a lot of those toxic subjects.

But diehard disciples and/or haters of either drivers mentioned who refuse to forget their opinions first before starting to read will see it as a waste of time.

So to a few of the posters out here: ignore this suggestion and this post.

 

 

Oh, and on topic:   Right now for me: 1976. From next week Sunday on challenged by Max this year.

 

 

OK, back to the graveyard over here and under my tombstone again.


Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 December 2021 - 13:50.


#358 thefinalapex

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 13:50

Putting on a digital asbestos fire suit on before I dare to say:


With regards to the events of 1994, (but also to an extend about what happened before that and lead to those events) one of the best manners of getting a decent insight of the big majority of all that is Ibrar Malik's book; 1994 the untold story.

But with one good piece of advice to they who either warship either Senna or Schumacher and/or think that either Senna or Schumacher is the most disgusting creep ever in F1.

Read this book in a neutral mood, try to forget your personal preferences and opinions about those two individuals.
Impossible to many, including some posters out here.
But if you can, this book will provide you with new insights that occasionally will force you to at least change your opinion into at least giving it a thought or giving a theory the benefit of the doubt.


DISCLAIMER: I have no personal interest to promote this book. But if it comes to the toxity of the 1994 season, I felt this book to be one of the best sources of info about a lot of those toxic subjects.
But diehard disciples and/or haters of either drivers mentioned who refuse to forget their opinions first before starting to read will see it as a waste of time.
So to a few of the posters out here: ignore this suggestion and this post.


OK, back to the graveyard over here and under my tombstone again.

I would love to hear you’re thoughts Henri, can you pm those? so i don’t derail this thread further.

Edited by thefinalapex, 03 December 2021 - 13:51.


#359 PayasYouRace

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 13:51

That’s our very own Ibsey’s book, isn’t it?

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#360 Dolph

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 00:19

He's clearly got me mixed up with someone else but I'll not stand for personal insults to that level. Absolutely disgraceful.

 

Hello. Yes, I mixed you up with William Hunt. Sorry. I attributed to you claims that you did not make and accused you of things you did not say. Completely my fault. I apologize.



#361 Dolph

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 00:38

I wouldn’t call that way. I only count points differences before and after races. No, it doesn’t really change the point about Damon’s 1995.

 

So here's the math then.

 

Points before first race: 

MS: 0; DH: 0

 

Points after first race:

MS: 10; DH: 0    DH lost 10 points to MS

 

Points after first race if Hill won:

MS: 6; DH: 10    MS loses 4 points to DH

 

The differences between the two scenarios: 10+4=14 points

 

Whether you count it or not, it matters a great deal in a head to head title match where you count points against your rival, not your overall points.

 

This factors in largely in how teams sometimes run their strategies. E.g. MV is in the lead and LH behind pits early on a suboptimal strategy. MV is going to change to this suboptimal strategy to ensure staying ahead of LH even though, this could even lead to a loss of race win. Not reverting to this strategy would open up the possibility (even if unlikely) of LH getting ahead of MV.



#362 Dolph

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 00:40

I suspect he's mixed y'all up with me. 

 

 

I am still awaiting a post which actually refutes what I believe to be facts that I posted regarding Benetton's behaviour in 1994. Insults and non-sequiturs are all that have been posted in response. 

 

Nope, it was William Hunt, I mixed him up with.



#363 Dolph

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 00:42

Putting on a digital asbestos fire suit on before I dare to say:

 

 

With regards to the events of 1994, (but also to an extend about what happened before that and lead to those events) one of the best manners of getting a decent insight of the big majority of all that is Ibrar Malik's book;  1994 the untold story.

 

But with one good piece of advice to they who either warship either Senna or Schumacher and/or think that either Senna or Schumacher is the most disgusting creep ever in F1.

 

Read this book in a neutral mood, try to forget your personal preferences and opinions about those two individuals.

Impossible to many, including some posters out here.

But if you can, this book will provide you with new insights that occasionally will force you to at least change your opinion into at least giving it a thought or giving a theory the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

DISCLAIMER:  I have no personal interest to promote this book. But if it comes to the toxity of the 1994 season, I felt this book to be one of the best sources of info about a lot of those toxic subjects.

But diehard disciples and/or haters of either drivers mentioned who refuse to forget their opinions first before starting to read will see it as a waste of time.

So to a few of the posters out here: ignore this suggestion and this post.

 

+1

 

Anyone, who wants to get more details should definitely give this book a try.

 

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/0957645031


Edited by Dolph, 04 December 2021 - 00:43.


#364 Boxerevo

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 03:38

From my life-time:

 

Prost 1984

Senna 1993

Schumacher 1998

Hamilton 2007

Alonso 2012