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FiA Presidential Elections, 17th December 2021


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#1 ArnageWRC

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 14:13

 

Motorsport UK & Royal Automobile Club have announced their choice.



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#2 Fastcake

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 15:21

In typical sporting federation fashion, this happens to be the first time the FIA has held a contested election since 2009. Letting the same guy rule unopposed until they’re forced to retire because enough people benefit is a great advocate for democracy and accountability.

In case you were wondering how the voting system works in an organisation with varying members per country (like me!), each country gets 24 votes. Half go to whomever is in charge of motorsport in the country, the other half are divvied up between all the automobile and caravanning clubs.

#3 Myrvold

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 15:32

Old men voting on other old man who picks another old man who they like, and together give the group of old men more money/advantages.

Yey.



#4 Burai

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 15:50

Fine, I'll do it.



#5 mclarensmps

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 15:53

Old men voting on other old man who picks another old man who they like, and together give the group of old men more money/advantages.

Yey.

What does age have to do with anything?



#6 Eyeshield

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 15:55

Anyone but Jean Todt. Does he actually do anything?



#7 Myrvold

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:01

What does age have to do with anything?

 

Not that much. Could've swapped it for "People doing the company line for 40 years voting on another company man, bringing a second company man with him which the group of people like. The duo then promises more money/advantages if the group votes for them".

Point being, while there's no revolution needed at the FIA, it would be good to have some kind of new blood and energy in. 



#8 Eyeshield

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:04

Honestly, I'd take Max Mosley back at this point. At least he had some level of involvement, albeit not so good.



#9 Myrvold

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:06

Honestly, I'd take Max Mosley back at this point. At least he had some level of involvement, albeit not so good.

 

I always wonder how Vatanen would've done.



#10 BRG

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:06

Anyone but Jean Todt. Does he actually do anything?

He has run the FIA competently and - unusually - with honesty and integrity for 12 years.  Not a dodgy bung, spanking scandal or outbreak of pro-French chauvinism in all that time.  Unheard of for the FIA.



#11 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:07

Old men voting on other old man who picks another old man who they like, and together give the group of old men more money/advantages.

Yey.

 

You speak as if young men were better than old men or something like that. Not really your most inspired post in this forum, really.



#12 mclarensmps

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:15

Not that much. Could've swapped it for "People doing the company line for 40 years voting on another company man, bringing a second company man with him which the group of people like. The duo then promises more money/advantages if the group votes for them".

Point being, while there's no revolution needed at the FIA, it would be good to have some kind of new blood and energy in. 

Ah, yes, phrased like this, we're in agreement. 



#13 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:17

He has run the FIA competently and - unusually - with honesty and integrity for 12 years.  Not a dodgy bung, spanking scandal or outbreak of pro-French chauvinism in all that time.  Unheard of for the FIA.

 

Pro-French chauvinism at FIA? Nooooo, it's a legend, it never existed!

 

And of course, neither has the ACO ever favoured a French entrant at Le Mans. It's all made up by the British press.



#14 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:23

Not that much. Could've swapped it for "People doing the company line for 40 years voting on another company man, bringing a second company man with him which the group of people like. The duo then promises more money/advantages if the group votes for them".

Point being, while there's no revolution needed at the FIA, it would be good to have some kind of new blood and energy in. 

 

What company line? Todt had been a racer for over 50 years before becoming president of the FIA. Not your average bureaucrat.



#15 Eyeshield

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:31

He has run the FIA competently and - unusually - with honesty and integrity for 12 years.  Not a dodgy bung, spanking scandal or outbreak of pro-French chauvinism in all that time.  Unheard of for the FIA.

Honesty? Really? How honest was he about the punishment Ferrari received after the whole engine fiasco a couple of year back?
 



#16 Risil

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:37

Honesty? Really? How honest was he about the punishment Ferrari received after the whole engine fiasco a couple of year back?

Cloak and dagger stuff but it doesn't take much imagination to think about how much worse Mosley would've handled it.



#17 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:51

Honesty? Really? How honest was he about the punishment Ferrari received after the whole engine fiasco a couple of year back?
 

 

I think 'honesty' made reference to personal benefits, not to sporting decisions.

 

With Ferrari, the FIA took a political decision, which they were entitled to choose. It punished Ferrari hard (see 2020 and to a lesser extent 2021 results) and it didn't affect the credibility of the sport and its biggest icon in front of the general public. Also, remember that, anyhow, Ferrari hadn't won anything, so it didn't directly affect the sport in any way, shape or form. Had Ferrari won a Championship in 2018 or 2019, things would have been far more complicated, but it didn't happen. All in all, it was a wise decision.



#18 Clatter

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 16:54

Honestly, I'd take Max Mosley back at this point. At least he had some level of involvement, albeit not so good.

 


You do know the role is much more than just F1?

#19 Clatter

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:02

I think 'honesty' made reference to personal benefits, not to sporting decisions.

 

With Ferrari, the FIA took a political decision, which they were entitled to choose. It punished Ferrari hard (see 2020 and to a lesser extent 2021 results) and it didn't affect the credibility of the sport and its biggest icon in front of the general public. Also, remember that, anyhow, Ferrari hadn't won anything, so it didn't directly affect the sport in any way, shape or form. Had Ferrari won a Championship in 2018 or 2019, things would have been far more complicated, but it didn't happen. All in all, it was a wise decision.

 


Punished Ferrari hard? Surely all that happened is that were told to stop doing something, and they lost a bit of performance. No idea what that something was, but it is pretty easy to assume it was something dodgy.

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#20 BRG

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:07

Honesty? Really? How honest was he about the punishment Ferrari received after the whole engine fiasco a couple of year back?
 

You think that Jean Todt personally dealt with that issue?  The point of his Presidency is that he has left the various FIA Commissions to get on with their jobs, instead of interfering all the time like his predecessors.  

 

You do know the role is much more than just F1?

Many here seem to believe that FIA stands for "Formula One Administration" and that the President of the FIA spends his whole time running F1. 



#21 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:13

Punished Ferrari hard? Surely all that happened is that were told to stop doing something, and they lost a bit of performance. No idea what that something was, but it is pretty easy to assume it was something dodgy.

 

Yes, hard enough to make them go several years back in development.



#22 Clatter

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:13

You think that Jean Todt personally dealt with that issue?  The point of his Presidency is that he has left the various FIA Commissions to get on with their jobs, instead of interfering all the time like his predecessors.  

 

Many here seem to believe that FIA stands for "Formula One Administration" and that the President of the FIA spends his whole time running F1. 

 


To be fair they probably think that because of Mosely.

#23 DeKnyff

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:18

You think that Jean Todt personally dealt with that issue?

 

I'm sure the final decision was his. Any subordinate would always want to be covered by his management in that situation. It was obvious that the case would be dissected by worldwide media.



#24 Clatter

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:26

Yes, hard enough to make them go several years back in development.

 


I'm really not sure being told to stop doing something dodgy can be construed as a punishment.

#25 BRG

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:28

Anyway, the Election?  Motor Sport seem to think it is between Graham Stoker, British lawyer and Mohammed bin Sulayem, former rally driver from Dubai.



#26 Myrvold

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 17:43

You speak as if young men were better than old men or something like that. Not really your most inspired post in this forum, really.

 

I can agree with that. I hoped my second post was a bit... better. All I've seen the last years are FIA moving further towards FIFA, IOC etc. in terms of "openness", money etc. I cannot say I see that changing unless there is a proper change. This isn't that.

 

What company line? Todt had been a racer for over 50 years before becoming president of the FIA. Not your average bureaucrat.

 

Todt has been, there I guess? It's good that Todt have been less controversial than Mosley. But as mentioned above, I feel the FIA is heading in the wrong direction, and that's under Todt, this is just a continuation.



#27 ArnageWRC

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 18:10

Anyway, the Election?  Motor Sport seem to think it is between Graham Stoker, British lawyer and Mohammed bin Sulayem, former rally driver from Dubai.

 

One assumes bin Sulayem (and his running mate, Robert Reid) have very little F1 experience/connections - so are going to struggle; look what happened when Vatanen went up against Todt in 2009. 



#28 OvDrone

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 18:15

I think Tom Kristensen would be best.

 

Case in point:

https://www.motorspo...tensen/6759975/



#29 pdac

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Posted 03 December 2021 - 18:25

Honesty? Really? How honest was he about the punishment Ferrari received after the whole engine fiasco a couple of year back?
 

 

Honesty does not equate to openness.

 

He was honest about the reasons why he was not more open. Whether you agree with those reasons is also something different.


Edited by pdac, 03 December 2021 - 18:30.


#30 Singularity

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 00:43

Honestly, I'd take Max Mosley back at this point. At least he had some level of involvement, albeit not so good.

How quickly people forget. Mosley had the title President of FIA, but in reality he was only the Dictator of F1 and had no problem letting his personal feelings towards the competitors guide his decisions. Jean Todt, on the other hand, worked for FIA.   


Edited by Singularity, 04 December 2021 - 11:32.


#31 HP

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 08:38

All in all Jean Todt wasn't very visible during his tenure, for good or bad. Mostly it was for the good.

 

He is/was good at letting people under him to get on with their jobs, without interfering too much. Mostly a positive attribute for any leader out there.

 

Downside of that can be seen in the Ferrari deal. He stated he would like to tell more about the Ferrari case, but said he couldn't because of agreements. Now, reading between the lines, it seemed to me, the issue not to talk about it, was legal, as in not divulging IP related innovations. Most of us are interested in the sporting side and knowing everything when a team is allegedly cheating, but we should not forget about the manufacturer side of things. They innovate and are not only interested in winning races, but also want to sell their products. That's how I read Jean Todt's comments about not being able to say more about that case.

 

For those wishing Mosely back. Really? He'd fined several team bosses and drivers for giving the sport a bad reputation for saying a few things out too loud. Under Mosley people would have had a harder time to state their case. Under Mosely we had much drama for nothing. Under Todt, focus was more on the sport.

 

Todt's worst decision? IMO it was to allow FE to have exclusive rights to full electric cars. His best achievement. IMO F1 agreeing to a cost cap. Remember when Mosley attempted that, teams were prepared to leave F1 and setup their own series.

 

Hopefully the next FIA president is interested into setting up more detailed communications, while maintaing Todt's OM.



#32 Ben1445

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 11:23

Todt's worst decision? IMO it was to allow FE to have exclusive rights to full electric cars. 

Little bit of a pedantic point, I accept, but reportedly it's only the exclusive rights to single seaters whereby all power to the wheels is delivered electrically. Any other type of car should be fair game by that agreement. 

 

But out of interest, why was it a bad decision? What should have been done instead in your view and/or what could a new FIA president do now? 


Edited by Ben1445, 04 December 2021 - 11:28.


#33 Sam1

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 11:29

Old men voting on other old man who picks another old man who they like, and together give the group of old men more money/advantages.

Yey.

That is exactly what is happening and will happen 

 

OLD school men never want to give anything up history has shown this 



#34 JHSingo

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 11:48

Honestly, I'd take Max Mosley back at this point. At least he had some level of involvement, albeit not so good.

 

There might be a tiny little problem with that idea...



#35 Sterzo

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 12:49

That is exactly what is happening and will happen 

 

OLD school men never want to give anything up history has shown this 

The "old school men" of the FIA set the rule that a president does give it up after three terms, and "old school man" Todt has.


Edited by Sterzo, 04 December 2021 - 13:18.


#36 BRG

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 14:44

There might be a tiny little problem with that idea...

Yes, but he would be a LOT less trouble in his current state.



#37 ANF

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 16:07

After watching that video I hope the person elected will unbutton his jacket when sitting.



#38 DeKnyff

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 16:29

That is exactly what is happening and will happen 

 

OLD school men never want to give anything up history has shown this 

 

Old school drivers, old school teams, old school tracks and old school FIA are awesome. New school based on on social media and so-called fan survey sucks.

 

Long live old school motor racing!



#39 New Britain

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 16:59

All in all Jean Todt wasn't very visible during his tenure, for good or bad. Mostly it was for the good.

 

He is/was good at letting people under him to get on with their jobs, without interfering too much. Mostly a positive attribute for any leader out there.

 

Downside of that can be seen in the Ferrari deal. He stated he would like to tell more about the Ferrari case, but said he couldn't because of agreements. Now, reading between the lines, it seemed to me, the issue not to talk about it, was legal, as in not divulging IP related innovations. Most of us are interested in the sporting side and knowing everything when a team is allegedly cheating, but we should not forget about the manufacturer side of things. They innovate and are not only interested in winning races, but also want to sell their products. That's how I read Jean Todt's comments about not being able to say more about that case.

 

For those wishing Mosely back. Really? He'd fined several team bosses and drivers for giving the sport a bad reputation for saying a few things out too loud. Under Mosley people would have had a harder time to state their case. Under Mosely we had much drama for nothing. Under Todt, focus was more on the sport.

 

Todt's worst decision? IMO it was to allow FE to have exclusive rights to full electric cars. His best achievement. IMO F1 agreeing to a cost cap. Remember when Mosley attempted that, teams were prepared to leave F1 and setup their own series.

 

Hopefully the next FIA president is interested into setting up more detailed communications, while maintaing Todt's OM.

The best thing that could be said about Jean Todt as FIA President is that he wasn't Max Mosley, who brought the FIA to a level of ignominy worthy of FIFA.

Although as you say Todt has not been particularly visible on the racing side (preferring to stick his nose into public road issues), his including his own wife (but no other women and no other irrelevant people) in the official group photo of living Formula One World Champions for F1's 60th anniversary was spectacularly ill-judged.

On the public road side, he then got his wife appointed United Nations Road Safety Ambassador for the Decade, another dubious move.

 

Regarding the cover-up of Ferrari's illegal PU, as President of the FIA Todt is first-among-equals on the World Motorsport Council and speaks for it. That was Mosley's status and we saw how he controlled the Council on every important matter, so it is pretty obvious that the FIA's handling of the Ferrari PU affair was subject to President Todt's wishes. If disclosing Ferrari IP would necessarily have attended the disclosure of what they were doing that was illegal, so what? That may be the price of cheating. Even if one were to have granted Ferrari a pass on that point, however, the fact that the FIA did not have the backbone at least to declare that the Ferrari device was contrary to the rules demonstrated either Todt's favouritism towards his old team or his willingness to let the sport's regulator be pushed around by it most famous entrant.

As to the point that Ferrari didn't win the titles that year so the PU made no real difference, they won three races that year and got many millions in prize money for finishing second in WCC. An FIA President with a backbone would have stripped them of their wins, points, and prize money. Todt failed to do any of that.

As between the new candidates Stringer and Sulayem, both have been deeply involved in motor sport for many years. One hopes that whoever is elected will be an improvement on Todt. It would be almost impossible not to be an improvement on Mosley.



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#40 pdac

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 17:00

Old school drivers, old school teams, old school tracks and old school FIA are awesome. New school based on on social media and so-called fan survey sucks.

 

Long live old school motor racing!

 

I'm afraid that old school died some time ago.



#41 BRG

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Posted 04 December 2021 - 18:57

On the public road side, he then got his wife appointed United Nations Road Safety Ambassador for the Decade, another dubious move.

:lol:   As if. 

 

I have had plenty of personal experience about how the UN system works.  The idea that Todt could just impose his wife (or any other nominee) on the UN is laughable.  There would have been 170 countries all trying their level best to get their wives, sons, daughters, mistresses, uncles etc etc a plum job like that.  The fact that Todt succeeded shows just what an awesome operator he must be, behind the scenes


Edited by BRG, 04 December 2021 - 18:58.