Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 4 votes

How long before Valtteri lets Max past tomorrow?


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

Poll: How long before Valterri... (92 member(s) have cast votes)

Let's Max past

  1. Warm up lap (9 votes [9.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.78%

  2. Off the line (12 votes [13.04%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.04%

  3. Before T1 (19 votes [20.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.65%

  4. In T1 (16 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  5. Lap 1 (10 votes [10.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.87%

  6. 1st stint (8 votes [8.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.70%

  7. 2nd stint (2 votes [2.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.17%

  8. Last stint (1 votes [1.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.09%

  9. Doesn't let Max past (6 votes [6.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.52%

  10. Takes Max out (4 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  11. Outpaces and beats Max (5 votes [5.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.43%

  12. Beats Lewis (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 14,842 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:25

Given his kitten-like strength at defending against Max at every available opportunity this year can Valterri actually do something to help his team and team mate win both titles this year? If not, how quickly/pathetically can he fail to do so?


Edited by Tenmantaylor, 04 December 2021 - 22:26.


Advertisement

#2 7WDC

7WDC
  • Member

  • 190 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:29

Bottas helped his team and team mate already in Hungary...  and that "help" can mean a CC or/and DC. Big Help...



#3 jacdaniel

jacdaniel
  • Member

  • 272 posts
  • Joined: April 19

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:43

Poor thread

#4 RekF1

RekF1
  • Member

  • 1,074 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:47

"How long before Valterri let's Max past tomorrow?"

About 8 meters. Same as last time.

#5 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 14,842 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:54

Bottas helped his team and team mate already in Hungary... and that "help" can mean a CC or/and DC. Big Help...


The way Valterri did that... proves he wasn't asked or indeed intended to. As when Valterri really needs to do something, it doesn't happen. Like Brazil. Like Sochi. Hence this thread.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 04 December 2021 - 22:54.


#6 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 28,832 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 04 December 2021 - 22:58

Sad that you think Lewis cant win it one on one. Perez is a non-entity, I would prefer Valtteri be one too and we can see the actual competitors going at it.



#7 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 8,491 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 04 December 2021 - 23:06

About ten laps before Lewis does :p

#8 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 14,842 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 December 2021 - 23:13

Sad that you think Lewis cant win it one on one. Perez is a non-entity, I would prefer Valtteri be one too and we can see the actual competitors going at it.


Lewis definitely can, but the whole talked up concept of a rear gunner just never seems to materialise. The only rear gunning we've seen this year was from Alonso in Hungary. Perez and Bottas have been total also rans, most notably when needed.

#9 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 20,221 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 04 December 2021 - 23:17

Lewis definitely can, but the whole talked up concept of a rear gunner just never seems to materialise. The only rear gunning we've seen this year was from Alonso in Hungary. Perez and Bottas have been total also rans, most notably when needed.

 

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku.  Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too.  Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.



#10 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 14,842 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 December 2021 - 23:21

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku. Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too. Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.


True they've had good races, but neither of those performances were helping their team mate against their rival in a direct way. We havnt seen Perez or Bottas land a blow on Lewis/Max respectively when up against them on track. IE hold one of them up for more than 1 corner from my memory of this season. And Bottas has had multiple opportunities to do so (hence my rare starting of an RC thread).

Perez inherited the Baku win, Lewis choked on the restart.

Turkey Bottas was amazing, but that didn't help Lewis much as he couldn't catch up in the race as we would have expected.

#11 flyboym3

flyboym3
  • Member

  • 578 posts
  • Joined: July 21

Posted 04 December 2021 - 23:57

He's only got 1 job to do but if his history is anything to go by then he will be focussing on Lewis and making sure Lewis has a really difficult angle into t1, compromise Lewis line while making room for max to take the racing line.

Just kidding of course. I think.

#12 7WDC

7WDC
  • Member

  • 190 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 05 December 2021 - 00:18

The way Valterri did that... proves he wasn't asked or indeed intended to. As when Valterri really needs to do something, it doesn't happen. Like Brazil. Like Sochi. Hence this thread.

 

I was not saying he did on purpose but the outcome was more than good...



#13 Scaboo22

Scaboo22
  • Member

  • 818 posts
  • Joined: May 21

Posted 05 December 2021 - 00:58

He won’t have to as he’ll accidentally take Hamilton out. Noticed you left this out of this great poll and felt it should have been up there.

#14 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 4,902 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:01

He won’t have to as he’ll accidentally take Hamilton out. Noticed you left this out of this great poll and felt it should have been up there.

Then he will be fired at Mercedes, oooh :p



#15 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 2,467 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:05

Toto will talk to him, don't you worry

#16 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 5,875 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:09

True they've had good races, but neither of those performances were helping their team mate against their rival in a direct way. We havnt seen Perez or Bottas land a blow on Lewis/Max respectively when up against them on track. IE hold one of them up for more than 1 corner from my memory of this season. And Bottas has had multiple opportunities to do so (hence my rare starting of an RC thread).

Perez inherited the Baku win, Lewis choked on the restart.

Turkey Bottas was amazing, but that didn't help Lewis much as he couldn't catch up in the race as we would have expected.

Perez inherited the Baku wi from Verstappen, not Hamilton. He was ahead of Lewis for majority of the race.

 

I'm sure Max scoring 7 points fewer in Turkey did help Lewis quite a lot. If that counts as a direct or indicert help I don't know but I'm sure winning a race against Verstappen that Hamilton could have not won is usually better than holding Verstappen behind for several laps on another occasion.
 

The way Valterri did that... proves he wasn't asked or indeed intended to. As when Valterri really needs to do something, it doesn't happen. Like Brazil. Like Sochi. Hence this thread.

In Brazil Bottas did something. Beat Verstappen for the win in the sprint. 1 point is not a lot but it may count in such a close season.
 



#17 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 16,812 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:20

There’s a thread for this already: https://forums.autos...95#entry9692253

#18 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 9,870 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:39

Given his kitten-like strength at defending against Max at every available opportunity this year can Valterri actually do something to help his team and team mate win both titles this year? If not, how quickly/pathetically can he fail to do so?

 

:rolleyes:



#19 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 4,902 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:43

There’s a thread for this already: https://forums.autos...95#entry9692253

I don't find it a stupid question.



Advertisement

#20 beachdrifter

beachdrifter
  • Member

  • 7,257 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 05 December 2021 - 01:52

At the first opportunity, whenever it arises.



#21 RogerStone

RogerStone
  • Member

  • 864 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:10

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151



#22 RogerStone

RogerStone
  • Member

  • 864 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:12

He's only got 1 job to do but if his history is anything to go by then he will be focussing on Lewis and making sure Lewis has a really difficult angle into t1, compromise Lewis line while making room for max to take the racing line.

Just kidding of course. I think.

 

Blaming Bottas for everything is a favourite theme,  even Lewis doesn't do it.  Why do you?



#23 alg7_munif

alg7_munif
  • Member

  • 1,933 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:15

Sorry I missed it, why is there no grid penalty for Bottas for changing the PU?

#24 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 14,185 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:22

If he wasnt generally useless, I would be convinced something was up .... but he is mostly useless at wheel to wheel racing. 

 

That said, he has put up more of a fight against LH than MV so far this season ... so I still wonder if something is up.

 

Either way, I'm glad he is moving on. 

 

He is a moderate talent brought in only because of his relationship with Toto and he was brought in to play a support role.... but for some reason both he and the team refuse to acknowledge this publicly and it has led at times to confusion on his part as to whether (and how much) he should be a rear gunner this year.... its like he thinks he should be fighting for wins and titles when he never had the talent to make it to a top team on his own merit. but he (and what few fans he has) never faced reality and just accepted he is there to be a #2 driver..... in a way its been quite sad to watch. 

 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  



#25 Bliman

Bliman
  • Member

  • 4,902 posts
  • Joined: April 16

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:37

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

Maybe he expects something from him tomorrow. And he is talking him up. Yeah it was funny when he said he was the best teammate ever.



#26 beachdrifter

beachdrifter
  • Member

  • 7,257 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:52

Sorry I missed it, why is there no grid penalty for Bottas for changing the PU?

 

Changing the PU is something teams do almost every weekend without penalty. It's when you introduce new parts to your pool AND have exceeded the allowed number of new parts for the season that a penalty applies.


Edited by beachdrifter, 05 December 2021 - 02:57.


#27 RogerStone

RogerStone
  • Member

  • 864 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 05 December 2021 - 04:20

Maybe he expects something from him tomorrow. And he is talking him up. Yeah it was funny when he said he was the best teammate ever.

 

Bottas never "lets Max past"  as in a "free pass"  



#28 jstrains

jstrains
  • Member

  • 3,127 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 December 2021 - 04:49

Into turn 1



#29 Clrnc

Clrnc
  • Member

  • 4,076 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 05 December 2021 - 04:55

Bottas did win Turkey, and Perez was rapid in Baku. Although I'm sure, for example, the much maligned DC was a better 'rear gunner' for Mika, and shock horror, occasionally had the measure of Schumacher too. Not really seen that to anywhere near the same level with VB and Perez against Max and Lewis.

Didn't Perez hold Hamilton up at Turkey magnificently in a much slower car?

At Brazil too although it was shortlived.

#30 Dhillon

Dhillon
  • Member

  • 710 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 05 December 2021 - 05:04

Rubbish thread.

#31 RogerStone

RogerStone
  • Member

  • 864 posts
  • Joined: June 19

Posted 05 December 2021 - 05:10

 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  

 

This statement is pure delusion.



#32 andyz

andyz
  • Member

  • 178 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 05 December 2021 - 06:42

If he wasnt generally useless, I would be convinced something was up .... but he is mostly useless at wheel to wheel racing. 

 

That said, he has put up more of a fight against LH than MV so far this season ... so I still wonder if something is up.

 

Either way, I'm glad he is moving on. 

 

He is a moderate talent brought in only because of his relationship with Toto and he was brought in to play a support role.... but for some reason both he and the team refuse to acknowledge this publicly and it has led at times to confusion on his part as to whether (and how much) he should be a rear gunner this year.... its like he thinks he should be fighting for wins and titles when he never had the talent to make it to a top team on his own merit. but he (and what few fans he has) never faced reality and just accepted he is there to be a #2 driver..... in a way its been quite sad to watch. 

 

So I think he is now twisted enough by the mental contortions he has gone through for the past years to actually prefer MV win the WDC, rather than LH .... on a subconscious level.  

What a rant.  


Edited by PayasYouRace, 05 December 2021 - 09:05.


#33 mclara

mclara
  • Member

  • 946 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 05 December 2021 - 06:51

Voted 'warm up lap'. Seemed like the most appropriate response :rotfl: 



#34 timmy bolt

timmy bolt
  • Member

  • 1,263 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 08:55

Bottas is a very fast driver who I think many will be surprised about next year. But his race craft has a lot to be desired.

That said, there are many other drivers out there just as bad as bottas when it comes to wheel to wheel racing, difference is they arnt under the spotlight (being at the very front) and with a team mate like Lewis.

For many putting bottas down is also about slyly trying to tarnish Lewis.

Perez has been pretty terrible this year (granted it's his first season) but he doesn't get nearly the negativity. He should have been fighting it with the mercs / Max yesterday for the podium / pole.

#35 ForzaGTR

ForzaGTR
  • Member

  • 3,467 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:00

Unless Max gets him off the line, which is really a roll of the dice, I don't see him passing Bottas on track, the space just isn't there and the chance of race-ending contact is high, safer to try it through the pit stops.

Edited by ForzaGTR, 05 December 2021 - 09:11.


#36 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 1,270 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:04

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

 

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

 

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.



#37 timmy bolt

timmy bolt
  • Member

  • 1,263 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:13

I think you take what drivers say immediately after such a result with a pinch of salt. Also I think he's trying to get / keep bottas' head into the driver / constructors fight.

Obviously it's de motivating for bottas leaving the car this season that could realistically give him a title but without one, it's important that the team motivation stays.

Not everything said is for the fans and journalists.

Edited by timmy bolt, 05 December 2021 - 09:14.


#38 EndlessMotion

EndlessMotion
  • Member

  • 2,983 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:22

Not that Valtteri is hard to pass but I'd play it extremely cautious today if I were Max. Yesterday was his first real taste of throwing too much caution to the wind and losing out. Last thing he needs is to trip over Bottas trying to jump him too soon. Thinking of Hamilton trying too hard in Monza back in 2010 and ending his own race and championship hopes after contact with Massa. Obviously if Bottas leaves the door wide open like he has done so often then he should take the gift but otherwise, the race is long and the Red Bull is fastest again by the looks of things this weekend. Most important thing is to stay in the fight and to pick his moments wisely. With each passing session Lewis and Max have less opportunity to put right any mistakes or ground loss.



#39 Sam1

Sam1
  • Member

  • 360 posts
  • Joined: July 20

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:30

He's only got 1 job to do take max out.

Just kidding . I think.



Advertisement

#40 Sterzo

Sterzo
  • Member

  • 2,696 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:41

Poor thread

 

 

Rubbish thread.

Yes, let's all sneer at a driver with more talent than the rest of us put together. Let's forget all the moans, whines and mouth-frothing about drivers who block, weave and edge people off the track, and attack one of the few who is always scrupulously clean.

 

Bottas won't use dirty tricks against Verstappen. Good.



#41 Muppetmad

Muppetmad
  • Member

  • 7,679 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:50

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.



#42 cheekybru

cheekybru
  • Member

  • 1,908 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:28

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.

Bottas dosnt have ethier in his armoury

Look at Brazil where all he had to do was hold his line and let max drive into him, would not have been dirty, or Mexico he could have braked later and took himself and max wide, allowing Lewis the lead

Two moments where bottas could have played a major role without being "dirty", I don't think his brain processes it quick enough when in the car

Valteri will drove his normal race today, max will pass in the first 1-3 laps and he will finish 20-50 seconds behind Lewis and Max

Edited by cheekybru, 05 December 2021 - 10:28.


#43 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 14,842 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:30

I don't believe anybody wishes for Bottas to use dirty tricks against Verstappen, though - just some robust, fair defending.


If Max tries to go round the outside of Bottas at any point, if I was Bottas, after Brazil, I'd just pretend to brake late, stay alongside then let Max decide to stay behind or hit the wall. Again.

#44 cheekybru

cheekybru
  • Member

  • 1,908 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:30

To be clear I am not calling VB's brain slow, I think he is just hardwired to avoid contact (like you should be) and he is unable to turn that off

#45 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 28,832 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:33

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

 

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

 

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.

 

Yeah he didnt like Nico because he wouldnt lie down dead, insisted on competing and eventually taking a WDC off him. Valtteri would never do that ;)



#46 flyboym3

flyboym3
  • Member

  • 578 posts
  • Joined: July 21

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:40

I found that a bit of a strange comment from Lewis. What he’s basically saying is that Bottas is ‘the best number 2 ever in the sport’, in reality.

How does one be the ‘best teammate ever’? Surely that is one that pushes you to the end to win the WDC, on paper at least.

In reality, a great teammate to these elite drivers are ones that do as they are told.

What he was saying is that him and bottas work really well together in driving the car development forward and working on setups and sharing notes.
He never had this with Alonso, button or Rosberg, who all witheld information or campaigned to get Lewis mechanics working on their car/setups instead.

#47 cheekybru

cheekybru
  • Member

  • 1,908 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:40

Yeah he didnt like Nico because he wouldnt lie down dead, insisted on competing and eventually taking a WDC off him. Valtteri would never do that ;)


**Could

#48 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 22,415 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 05 December 2021 - 11:55

 Today... Lewis Hamilton described Valtteri Bottas as “the best teammate there has ever been in this sport” ... 

 

Autosport Forum... ahh let's destroy Bottas,  take 151

Lewis is just desperately hoping that, if he is nice to Bottas, his 'team-mate' might actually give him a teeny tiny bit of help for once.  I voted turn 1, lap 1.  Just like Qatar. I do not recall a single instance where Bottas put up a fight.

 

The sooner Bottas is put in a mid field car where he belongs, the better.


Edited by BRG, 05 December 2021 - 11:55.


#49 Augurk

Augurk
  • Member

  • 5,136 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 11:57

With all his shortcomings when it comes to direct on-track battles. Bottas took off more points from Max this season than Perez did from Hamilton. But let's conveniantly forget that. 



#50 timmy bolt

timmy bolt
  • Member

  • 1,263 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 05 December 2021 - 12:01

With all his shortcomings when it comes to direct on-track battles. Bottas took off more points from Max this season than Perez did from Hamilton. But let's conveniantly forget that.


Perez has been a non entity throughout the year. Pretty decent race pace but if you can't quali amongst the front runners then you will always have limited impact. 5th today is pretty dreadful. That RB is def faster than the Ferrari by quite some margin.