3470 replies to this topic

[goldenboy]

Lewis got a proper penalty for that (dropped to 3rd) because it became clear to everyone that in handing the place back and immediately reovertaking he'd created an advantage for himself by tucking in.

Max overtook off the track, did a dangerous rejoin, forced another driver off the track, did the instant reovertake (like Lewis 08), then caused a collision with a brake test, then attempted the re-overtake again. And after all this didn't receive a single penalty that affected his result.

Gotcha, so Lewis is unsportsmanlike as well. Agreed.

[Tenmantaylor]

Gotcha, so Lewis is unsportsmanlike as well. Agreed.

So you agree Max should have been DQd?

[GlenWatkins]

For me, this race went full IndyCar.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 07 December 2021 - 23:53.

[goldenboy]

So you agree Max should have been DQd?

I don't think either of them should have been DQ'd 

[Tenmantaylor]

I dread to think what you think Max would have to do to get DQd.

[goldenboy]

I dread to think what you think Max would have to do to get DQd.

If you are saying Max should get a DQ for re-passing straight away, then I definitely disagree. I don't think it should be a DQ for Lewis either. 

[Tenmantaylor]

Brake testing, causing a dangerous collision. Should be a DQ. If you don't think it should be a DQ, what would a driver have to do to get DQd. Please say what kind of move deserves a DQ.

[P123]

Missed this one live, but Charles overtakes his teammate in a way some people would get red hot if Verstappen did it:

 

https://www.reddit.c...rc_regains_the/

 

He should definitely have been ordered to give that back.

 

The future of Max vs Charles championship fights laid bare before us, where the track is merely an inconvenience to be shortcutted. 

[jonpollak]

Enjoyed reading JV

https://www.autospor...arting/6859830/

Jp

[Boxerevo]

Brake testing, causing a dangerous collision. Should be a DQ. If you don't think it should be a DQ, what would a driver have to do to get DQd. Please say what kind of move deserves a DQ.

Idk anymore. Maybe sunday can answer it.

I am curious about the quality of the divebomb that will come.

Edited by Boxerevo, 08 December 2021 - 02:09.

[Astandahl]

He should definitely have been ordered to give that back.

 

The future of Max vs Charles championship fights laid bare before us, where the track is merely an inconvenience to be shortcutted. 

He did immediately...

 

Should be noted that at this point is impossible to stay on the outside because you just need to not give enough space and force the opponent to cut the chicane (you can clearly see trying to make the corner but Sainz didn't leave any space so he corrected and cut the chicane).

Edited by Astandahl, 08 December 2021 - 06:26.

[Bartonz20let]

Brake testing, causing a dangerous collision. Should be a DQ. If you don't think it should be a DQ, what would a driver have to do to get DQd. Please say what kind of move deserves a DQ.

This is the bit that really irks me, not that people are defending it as 'just racing' but in all the time I've watched motorsport regardless of the category or even when I was karting, brake checks we're considered to be about as bad as it gets. It's never been considered acceptable and worthy of severe consequences.

Now, they've been reduced to something that's not only tolerated but barely worthy of punishment.

There are racing incidents, bad/clumsy driving that causes a collision, overly aggressive driving that causes a collision, then there's this, a deliberate and wreckless act that causes a collision.

It's bad that Max did it, I don't know what the fans who are defending it are thinking but the sheer fact that the FIA are now condoning it with such a light punishment is frankly shameful.

Edited by Bartonz20let, 08 December 2021 - 02:32.

[yyoo]

This is the bit that really irks me, not that people are defending it as 'just racing' but in all the time I've watched motorsport regardless of the category or even when I was karting, brake checks we're considered to be about as bad as it gets. It's never been considered acceptable and worthy of severe consequences.

 

Yep.  Brake checks are considered really bad even when the cars have brake lights, but these F1 cars have no brake lights and they stop incredibly fast.  "Hard braking" in a street car is defined as 0.45 g's or more.  Max braked at 2.4 g's in an unexpected place on track.  

[Cyanide]

He should definitely have been ordered to give that back.

The future of Max vs Charles championship fights laid bare before us, where the track is merely an inconvenience to be shortcutted.

It doesn't help that the driver around the outside is given no choice but to leave the track.

Almost every driver is guilty of pushing off the outside overtaker, including Lewis.

This has more to do with the FIA allowing an environment where cutting the corner is the sustainable thing to do than with Max or Charles, really.

[Tenmantaylor]

It doesn't help that the driver around the outside is given no choice but to leave the track.

Almost every driver is guilty of pushing off the outside overtaker, including Lewis.

This has more to do with the FIA allowing an environment where cutting the corner is the sustainable thing to do than with Max or Charles, really.

For the record, when the FIA let Max push LeClerc off the track for the lead in Austria 19, maintaining the position and winning. THATs when the FIA created the Max we are seeing now.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 08 December 2021 - 06:59.

[Tenmantaylor]

I don't think either of them should have been DQ'd

Come on, describe to us what Max would have had to have done to get DQd.

[Cyanide]

For the record, when the FIA let Max push LeClerc off the track for the lead in Austria 19, maintaining the position and winning. THATs when the FIA created the Max we are seeing now.

As I said, it's not just Max, multiple other drivers are guilty of it (Perez, Hamilton, Norris, Leclerc). I can see how it's popular now to give the move a Max trademark, but Lewis did it at Jeddah as well, yet we're pretending he's a saint.

[Gareth]

As I said, it's not just Max, multiple other drivers are guilty of it (Perez, Hamilton, Norris, Leclerc). I can see how it's popular now to give the move a Max trademark, but Lewis did it at Jeddah as well, yet we're pretending he's a saint.

Kimi Raikkonen did it at Spa in 2008. Robert Kubica at Silverstone in 2010. On both occasions, the guy they pushed of the track was required to return the place.

 

It's been going on for years. Hanging out to dry is not particular to any one driver in F1, nor is it somehow some incredibly dreadful driving that's only crept in in recent years.

[JeePee]

Kimi Raikkonen did it at Spa in 2008. Robert Kubica at Silverstone in 2010. On both occasions, the guy they pushed of the track was required to return the place.

 

It's been going on for years. Hanging out to dry is not particular to any one driver in F1, nor is it somehow some incredibly dreadful driving that's only crept in in recent years.

It is happening a lot more now than when we still had grass/gravel. The pushed-wide-driver now always goes for the run off, while back then they would try to keep it on track, resulting in more contacts (and thus more of a risk for the inside driver).

[Cyanide]

Kimi Raikkonen did it at Spa in 2008. Robert Kubica at Silverstone in 2010. On both occasions, the guy they pushed of the track was required to return the place.

 

It's been going on for years. Hanging out to dry is not particular to any one driver in F1, nor is it somehow some incredibly dreadful driving that's only crept in in recent years.

 

The move always existed but it's only in the past couple of years it's been the predominant way to race when someone tries to overtake you around the outside. This year and last year it's been especially all too common, and it's because the FIA are way too lenient about it. 

 

I don't think it's dreadful driving, but it's definitely not clean racing. 

[IrvTheSwerve]

Kimi Raikkonen did it at Spa in 2008. Robert Kubica at Silverstone in 2010. On both occasions, the guy they pushed of the track was required to return the place.

 

It's been going on for years. Hanging out to dry is not particular to any one driver in F1, nor is it somehow some incredibly dreadful driving that's only crept in in recent years.

I think in the past it was rarer though, as if a driver was pushing another off the circuit he would almost certainly be pushing him into gravel or a wall - it was easier to see that it was a bit of a dirty move. It’s become somewhat acceptable now because it looks less dramatic.