147 replies to this topic

[BRK]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

 

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation? 

 

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at. 

 

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.

 

 

 

 

[MaxisOne]

LOL ...

 

The Race director .. explained your first problem.

As long as your within the time limits set before the next sector your in your right to pace yourself as you see fit.

Hamtilon was not told that it was ok to pass you can blame that on the Race director if you want to  and FRANKLY ITS A BONEHEADED MOVE IN THE FULLEST TO BRAKE THAT HARSHLY WITHOUT PULLING TO THE SIDE.

 

NO Hamilton is not under investigation.. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS ..

 

Run along now.

Edited by MaxisOne, 05 December 2021 - 20:33.

[Maustinsj]

Dear oh dear.

[anyeis]

Those are hardly ever punished. Grey areas

Edited by anyeis, 05 December 2021 - 20:36.

[krapmeister]

Tit for Tat thread posting - love it

[BRK]

Tit for Tat thread posting - love it

 

Still waiting for a clear, by the book explanation. Was what Mercedes and Hamilton/Bottas did today correct? Why is Hamilton not under investigation for causing a collision? Or for speeding + slowing under the VSC?

[loki]

No.

[Scaboo22]

Mate you’re not allowed to criticize Mercedes while their star driver is British. Once Max switches to Merc then is when people will start noticing and complaining about things like that.

[ForzaGTR]

This is embarrassing for BRK

[Hellenic tifosi]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

 

Is there any rule against it? 

 

If you were in charge of running Mercedes, wouldn't you have done exactly the same?

 

I know that I would have ordered my second driver to do exactly the same.

[Kao18]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

 

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation? 

 

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at. 

 

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.

 

Mercedes and their drivers do these things a lot, I call it subtle abuse of the rules or just unsporting behaviour. But its commonly accepted here (and from fia it seems). As far as I am concerned this season it goes back to as early as Bahrain, knowingly and willingly abusing track limits for 30+ laps but of course RB, Max and Horner are the dirty ones and Mercedes, Lewis and Totot just victims 

[KeithD68]

Embarrassing thread

[causeandeffect]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

 

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation? 

 

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at. 

 

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.

 

 

 

 

Oh dear. I guess such a silly thread is a good way of signposting a meeting place for rabid MV fans. Crack on

Edited by causeandeffect, 05 December 2021 - 21:27.

[geralt]

1. There are no rules to stay within 10 cars in a safety car restart

2. The VSC rules are all about staying under a delta, so he was abiding by the rules as long as he stayed under his delta by the time the race resumed

3. As for the collision, I think both drivers were at fault there (likely both playing DRS games) so I'm guessing nothing will come out of it. This is dependent on whether Max slowed down erratically or not, though

 

The Bottas incident though was slam dunk. Should have been a 5 seconds penalty as that is normally punished

[jpm2019]

Hamilton drove max off track, i think at t27, but ofcourse everbody only focussing on saint lewis vs bad max

[ClubmanGT]

Hamilton also made contact with Ocon at T1 which went unnoticed, which was odd given he'd left the door wide-open to Verstappen at this point and he was always going to be there by turn-in time. 

[Laptom]

Hamilton drove max off track, i think at t27, but ofcourse everbody only focussing on saint lewis vs bad max

I think this was really the worst driving of today. Ham on purpose steered that way.

[Ben1980]

Why do people need to use the Internet to make themselves look stupid, not just this thread, but it's one.

[Gareth]

I was surprised that Bottas slowing under the SC wasn’t looked at.

The rest is straw clutching.

[LightningMcQueen]

Hamilton drove max off track, i think at t27, but ofcourse everbody only focussing on saint lewis vs bad max

See Brazil. Max gave up the right to moan forever.

Let them race went the cry

[P123]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.  - No rules broken.  The aim of a Safety Car is not to measure your speed by the guy ahead.  It is no longer a race.  Once track clear and SC lights off it's different.  A car cannot slow unduly in the pitlane, which Bottas was not.  That would incur a penalty (see Hamilton Bahrain a few years back).  There was also no illegal slowing down by Hamilton on the run to the grid.

 

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation?  Because it is a delta.  Max increased the gap to over 5s initially under one VSC - do you call for an investigation into that?  And the only reason Lewis closed on Max at one stage was when Kimi was ahead and running below delta- you would have heard Max complaing about this on the radio

 

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at.   Surely a mad frenzy would just have been him braking?  The mad frenzy appears to be with yourself, as evidence by this topic and your misplaced irritation.  One driver was instructed to drive "strategically" during that, and his name was Max.  Perhaps took it to the extreme.  The stewards are looking into that anyway.

 

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.  Of sorts, yes

[jpm2019]

See Brazil. Max gave up the right to moan forever.

Let them race went the cry

Its mostly the lewis fans moaning. Not max

[GTA]

This is quite a theory.

 

The only thing I found puzzling was the BOT non-penalty. Did the FIA forget ? I thought it was slam dunk. 

[Hellenic tifosi]

The problem is with the rules, not with Mercedes....

[Spillage]

To be honest the Bottas slowing down looked blatant, I'm amazed that wasn't looked into. The dropping more than 10 car lengths back hasn't been policed all season so nothjing will come of that. It should be, though.

[Juan Kerr]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 

 

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

 

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation? 

 

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at. 

 

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.

A formation lap is not a SC restart, that's your first mistake.

The VSC's mean that the drivers have to stay within a delta, if Max slows to the end of his delta and Lewis is at the front of his limit they will close up. When the VSC ended they were both always relatively the correct time apart and Hamilton usually loses out as Max pushes his delta to the limit more. So again not sure what you've invented in your head.

Hamilton ran into the back of Max because Max was dilly-dallying about in the middle of the track changing speeds all the time and Hamilton tripped over him, why didn't Max just pull over to the left and let Hamilton through like any normal person would? Because he had been told to 'strategically give the place back' which means try and take advantage and basically cheat and compromise any rules as cheaters do.

Verstappen ran Lewis off the track twice and brake tested him, Lewis Hamilton had to try to avoid 4 collisions with Max Verstappen today, the kid's on track manner has got simply unacceptable now and he deserves a ban, we've seen it before with overly-aggressive drivers who will not accept things.

 

[smitten]

He's not a kid anymore. 7th season in F1?

[squarewun]

For the thousandth time, there is no rule Bottas broke there, keep dreaming.

[Myrvold]

The only thing I found puzzling was the BOT non-penalty. Did the FIA forget ? I thought it was slam dunk. 

 

Yup. Was about to say "what was all that about" with a non-penalty.

Then I remembered "Michael Masi" and "Federation of Incompetent Amateurs" and it all explained itself.

[SenorSjon]

Going a bit slow behind a SC vs purposely driving cars off the track. Imaging getting yourself in such a state you make a thread this bad.

 

Bottas and Hamilton did. But if Lewis barges off Verstappen next race, Verstappen will get the penalty.

[w1Y]

Bottas and Hamilton did. But if Lewis barges off Verstappen next race, Verstappen will get the penalty.

Man some people are delirious. I think I'll come back tomorrow when hopefully people can have a sensible conversation. Cracks are appearing

[OvDrone]

[SenorSjon]

Man some people are delirious. I think I'll come back tomorrow when hopefully people can have a sensible conversation. Cracks are appearing

 

We've seen a full season where everything Mercedes does is hardly investigated while RB and/or Verstappen had to modify wings, pitstops, the works. The DRS thing was a slip-up I guess. 

[w1Y]

We've seen a full season where everything Mercedes does is hardly investigated while RB and/or Verstappen had to modify wings, pitstops, the works. The DRS thing was a slip-up I guess.

Max braked test someone and only got a 10sec penalty.

[MKSixer]

Man some people are delirious. I think I'll come back tomorrow when hopefully people can have a sensible conversation. Crackpots are appearing

FTFY.

[OO7]

We've seen a full season where everything Mercedes does is hardly investigated while RB and/or Verstappen had to modify wings, pitstops, the works. The DRS thing was a slip-up I guess. 

Can you expand on "the works"?

[Clrnc]

For the thousandth time, there is no rule Bottas broke there, keep dreaming.

If I'm not wrong I remembered was it McLaren who got a 5s penalty for trying to slow down and douhle stack? Pretty sure there are teams who got penalties for that

[goldenboy]

I was surprised that Bottas slowing under the SC wasn’t looked at.

The rest is straw clutching.

Yes, that is odd. I wonder why nothing happened there.

[alg7_munif]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix.

Both Bottas and Hamilton slowed down illegally to block MV at the two SCs. Not investigated. Then brushed under the rug publicly by Masi.

Hamilton did not respect two VSCs, speeding up through yellow flagged sectors to close the gap to Max several times, only to back off and open up the gap again before the timing line. This cannot be allowed under VSC regulations. Why is this not under investigation?

Hamilton runs into the back of the Red Bull, in a mad frenzy to stay behind when crossing the DRS line. By itself, it would imply he was aware Max was slowing down to let him past. While the entire world watching were fully aware Max had been instructed to let Hamilton past, we are expected to believe Mercedes were not. This needs to be investigated, as it's not the first time Mercedes / Hamilton have lied on the radio. Doesn't look like it is being looked at.

Is Hamilton under investigation for causing a collision? Doesn't look like it.

Bottas was not behind a safety car just yet and he did not slow downs unnecessarily.

Lewis was not on a formation lap but it is a restart.

[teejay]

VSC has deltas - and is monitored constantly. Lewis was clearly within those. 

 

Some of these threads are wild. 

[goldenboy]

VSC has deltas - and is monitored constantly. Lewis was clearly within those. 

 

Some of these threads are wild. 

Brundle may have contributed to this by saying what Bottas was doing was against the rules. I thought his slowing down to avoid double stacking was against the rules but apparently not.

[Dhillon]

1. Max got 5 place penalty for a 'rogue' mashal waving a yellow, Nothing for Lewis for same offence.

 

2. Vettel was penlised for exceeding 10 car legth behind safety car, not Hamilton

 

3. Gutierrez got 5 place penalty for impeding in practise, Lewis got away doing it twice.

 

https://www.formula1...ein-in-fp3.html

Edited by Dhillon, 06 December 2021 - 05:21.

[pacwest]

1. Max got 5 place penalty for a 'rogue' mashal waving a yellow, Nothing for Lewis for same offence.

Oh hell no. I’m not letting you get away with that. That is straight up gaslighting. There is no way you can believe this.

What blows my mind at this point is that if VER takes out HAM in Abu Dhabi, and gets DSQ’d, he wins the championship. All he has to do it put him out. A broken wing even. But if he straight up takes him out with malice and gets DSQ’d, he has more wins.

If HAM pulls this off, any time someone like you tries this BS or says HAM isn’t the GOAT, I will vehemently call them out. I liked Lewis before this. I like a lot of drivers.

But in all my years I have never yelled “black flag!” at my telly. Today I became HAM’s biggest fan. I want him to destroy Red Bull Gaslighting.

Yeah I said gaslighting twice. The narrative people are pushing online and in front of a Sky microphone are blowing me away.

[Dhillon]

Oh hell no. I’m not letting you get away with that. That is straight up gaslighting. There is no way you can believe this.

 

I read your twice to find some reference to yellow flag inicidents.

[Baddoer]

This championship leaves a bad smell... Glad it will be over soon...

[teejay]

1. Max got 5 place penalty for a 'rogue' mashal waving a yellow, Nothing for Lewis for same offence.

 

2. Vettel was penlised for exceeding 10 car legth behind safety car, not Hamilton

 

3. Gutierrez got 5 place penalty for impeding in practise, Lewis got away doing it twice.

 

https://www.formula1...ein-in-fp3.html

 

 

Did you actually spend any time seeing what the result was of the yellow flag investigation before posting? 

 

Genuinely interested. 

[William Hunt]

Marko & Horner both remind me of 'Comical Ali', that spokesman of Saddam Hussein who was even denying that there were US tanks near Baghdad when those tanks were in reality just a couple of hundreds of meters away from him. They are in constant denial of the track behaviour of their hooligan driver and seem to be living in an alternative reality.

The OP seems to be under the spell of this Red Bull propaganda.

Edited by William Hunt, 06 December 2021 - 05:41.

[goldenboy]

Did you actually spend any time seeing what the result was of the yellow flag investigation before posting? 

 

Genuinely interested. 

What are your thoughts on Bottas slowing Max before pitting?

[Dhillon]

Did you actually spend any time seeing what the result was of the yellow flag investigation before posting? 

 

Genuinely interested. 

 

 

5 place penalty for Max, nothing for Lewis ?

[pacwest]

Beware ye who enter here, whataboutism and logical fallacies abound.