147 replies to this topic

[Ellios]

I think across the entire lifetime of F1 you can offset one with another throughout the timeline. You can keep this going almost to infinity. It's not really going to progress the sport by bouncing back and forth. 

 

Live sports will always bring mistakes but we can look to other sports as how best to reduce refereeing errors. 

 

I support a permanent stewarding team with their main aim of consistency. 

 

Obviously the more consistent the less cause for complaint but certainly there is a significant portion of the F1 'fan' base that will never accept a stewards decision if it's against their agenda, just have to live with that. 

[Ruudbackus]

Mercedes didnt brake any rules but did show the rules need some tightening up. 

[Seanspeed]

Bottas intentionally blocking Max, turning left-right-left-right multiple times and slowing

How is that not a blatant violation!?

 

Hamilton with hand slapping, while others receive penalty for same.

 

Fia had spoken who they want winner and when.

 

I won't pay a penny anymore for the F1 circus

Lewis took out his main rival ahead of him in Silverstone and stewards gave him such a small penalty that he still went on to win the race. 

 

This sport has become a total joke.

[Xeriks]

Hamilton also made contact with Ocon at T1 which went unnoticed, which was odd given he'd left the door wide-open to Verstappen at this point and he was always going to be there by turn-in time.

If he didn't avoid the divebomb the title battle is over, Hamilton is trying so hard to avoid a crash with the lunatic that he would rather turn towards Ocon.

Max tried every dirty trick in the book, his desperation is embarrassing to watch.

He has years left of his career, to see himcdrive this way is pathetic.

[Ruudbackus]

What the hell did Hamilton do to some of you guys? I hope you have a warranty.

I doubt it's something Hamilton did, the frustration all over this forum is that in the eyes of the hardcore Max fans Lewis is always at fault and in the eyes of the hard core Lewis fans Max is always at fault. People with a bias for a driver but a relatively neutral view to things and admitting that their driver made a msitake/did some dirty driving/whatever have become a rare species.

Edited by Ruudbackus, 06 December 2021 - 14:26.

[cpbell]

Lewis took out his main rival ahead of him in Silverstone and stewards gave him such a small penalty that he still went on to win the race. 

 

This sport has become a total joke.

That old one again?  Of course, he should have been jailed for attempted murder, shouldn't he?

[alonstar]

That old one again?  Of course, he should have been jailed for attempted murder, shouldn't he?

A simple DSQ would have been fair, thank you. 

[cpbell]

A simple DSQ would have been fair, thank you. 

For missing an apex by 1.5 metres?  Half the grid would be DQ'd from each GP if that was the criterion.  Anyway, that was then, and this is now.  To my knowledge, there is nothing in the Sporting Regulations that bans slowing your approach to the grid for a race restart.  Bottas should, I think, have been penalised.

[alonstar]

For winning a wdc by a crash. 

[sheSgoTthElooK]

Mate you’re not allowed to criticize Mercedes while their star driver is British. Once Max switches to Merc then is when people will start noticing and complaining about things like that.

 

What's the point in that comment?

 

(1) It fuels aggressiveness

(2) I'm not British, do you have an invisible scanner to detect the nationality of the users around? 

(3) If not, your judgement resembles the one of the FIA - and perhaps you believe, you are better than that...

[smitten]

For winning a wdc by a crash. 

 

Bookmarked for next week!

[mclarensmps]

Michael and Ferrari did many things which I didn't approve of or was a fan of. To be clear. Just like how i felt, Max should have been penalized for Brazil. no excuses.

 

Fair play! The FIA are the ones who look the worst in all of this. 

[mclarensmps]

Lewis took out his main rival ahead of him in Silverstone and stewards gave him such a small penalty that he still went on to win the race. 

 

This sport has become a total joke.

 

Become? Not like another 7 time world champion has done exactly the same. Or another certain 3 time world champion. And the other two guys, who are regarded as the best of all time, did it Deliberately

It really is funny how Hamilton is held to a completely different standard than anyone else. 

[SenorSjon]

For missing an apex by 1.5 metres?  Half the grid would be DQ'd from each GP if that was the criterion.  Anyway, that was then, and this is now.  To my knowledge, there is nothing in the Sporting Regulations that bans slowing your approach to the grid for a race restart.  Bottas should, I think, have been penalised.

 

Well, Lewis has a knack of pushing people outside the track, yet we only hear the complains here when it happens to him and all the other pushes are forgotten or marked as 'trying to overtake outside the track'.

[jpm2019]

Did we already talk about Bottas did a hungary 2.0 Max at one of the starts? If Max wouldnt have braked very late it would be a DNF for Max. 

[Requiem84]

Did we already talk about Bottas did a hungary 2.0 Max at one of the starts? If Max wouldnt have braked very late it would be a DNF for Max. 

 

Nothing happened, so nothing to really discuss.

 

But yet, it was the re-start were Max 're-passed' Hamilton on the outside into T1 outside of the track. Verstappen braked a full car later than Hamilton and even with Verstappen braking too late to make the corner, Valterri Bottas almost ploughed into the back of Verstappen. 

 

It can be seen here:

 

https://youtu.be/vRhhS6BnLSY?t=137

[cpbell]

For winning a wdc by a crash. 

That makes Damon a 2x WDC.

[chrcol]

The crash was investigated, and verdict given so he was been investigated they always investigate both drivers.

 

The fact both he and Max caught up with Kimi under VSC shows an issue with how VSC works, but thats something they both did.  I dont think they broke rules though, its just a loophole which they both took advantage off.

[cpbell]

Well, Lewis has a knack of pushing people outside the track, yet we only hear the complains here when it happens to him and all the other pushes are forgotten or marked as 'trying to overtake outside the track'.

I recall shouting at the screen when he shoved Nico wide at Austin in 2015.

[Gareth]

Did we already talk about Bottas did a hungary 2.0 Max at one of the starts? If Max wouldnt have braked very late it would be a DNF for Max. 

Perez also came really close to taking Max out on the first start iirc.

[QdfV]

Did we already talk about Bottas did a hungary 2.0 Max at one of the starts? If Max wouldnt have braked very late it would be a DNF for Max. 

 

That would have made a plausible and solid defense to the stewards; 'I was trying to avoid being divebombed by Bottas (again)'

[SenorSjon]

Nothing happened, so nothing to really discuss.

 

But yet, it was the re-start were Max 're-passed' Hamilton on the outside into T1 outside of the track. Verstappen braked a full car later than Hamilton and even with Verstappen braking too late to make the corner, Valterri Bottas almost ploughed into the back of Verstappen. 

 

It can be seen here:

 

https://youtu.be/vRhhS6BnLSY?t=137

 

 

Bottas missed the corner (or were kerbs counted this time out?) and rejoined the track.  No f*** s were given.

 

 

You have to leave a cars width... classic Hamilton like he did at least at Austin, Britain, Monza as well. I've seen Rosberg overtake others in Singapore at the start this way and it wasn't even frowned upon. With the jostling around with position, Verstappen actually lost 2 positions instead of giving one up with the Masi bartering.

[jpm2019]

Bottas missed the corner (or were kerbs counted this time out?) and rejoined the track.  No f*** s were given.

 

 

You have to leave a cars width... classic Hamilton like he did at least at Austin, Britain, Monza as well. I've seen Rosberg overtake others in Singapore at the start this way and it wasn't even frowned upon. With the jostling around with position, Verstappen actually lost 2 positions instead of giving one up with the Masi bartering.

 

I think it was Lewis his corner, but after slo mo'ing the video i'm not so sure anymore. Max made a move that was too ambitious, but he was fully besides Lewis when Lewis was crowding him off. Max really had nowhere to go did he 

[Clrnc]

Nah, doesn't work that way. This incident was fully Max's fault. Its easy to look alongside when you don't brake and just dive on the outside of Hamilton. Hamilton definitely had that corner.

 

The incident that led to Hamilton rear ending Max and 5s+10s penalty to Max was more 50-50. Max arguably had that corner and lost it on braking. Should have been racing incident. 

[cpbell]

I think it was Lewis his corner, but after slo mo'ing the video i'm not so sure anymore. Max made a move that was too ambitious, but he was fully besides Lewis when Lewis was crowding him off. Max really had nowhere to go did he 

I was waiting for this.  I thought Max fans after Brazil decided that understeer was irrelevant and that, provided you don't open the steering angle, you're OK?

[jpm2019]

I was waiting for this. I thought Max fans after Brazil decided that understeer was irrelevant and that, provided you don't open the steering angle, you're OK?

Its either both wrong or right, so tell. What did you think of brazil

[SenorSjon]

I was waiting for this.  I thought Max fans after Brazil decided that understeer was irrelevant and that, provided you don't open the steering angle, you're OK?

 

Yet it was Mercedes powerpointing the stewards for hours about it...

[Whatisvalis]

A simple DSQ would have been fair, thank you. 

He wasn't even found to be totally at fault in the stewards decision.

[Radman]

A simple DSQ would have been fair, thank you. 

the Silverstone incident is no different to any other of the incidents involving Max, he just never knows when to yield.

[Radman]

Yet it was Mercedes powerpointing the stewards for hours about it...

As opposed to having one of their drivers driving the circuit to come up with new ‘evidence’

[Radman]

I think it was Lewis his corner, but after slo mo'ing the video i'm not so sure anymore. Max made a move that was too ambitious, but he was fully besides Lewis when Lewis was crowding him off. Max really had nowhere to go did he 

Max outbreaks himself again, as he assumes everyone will get out of his way

[RekF1]

Not the first time that Mercedes' many blatant actions at a grand prix will go unnoticed by the powers-that-be in the noise following a controversial grand prix. 
 

Max used all their telemetry data again. You'll have to wait for the pigeon, and an artist's impression.

[SenorSjon]

Max outbreaks himself again, as he assumes everyone will get out of his way

Not really. I hope someone will try to make the corner and hit Lewis to stop this.

Edited by SenorSjon, 06 December 2021 - 19:48.

[Dalin80]

Did we already talk about Bottas did a hungary 2.0 Max at one of the starts? If Max wouldnt have braked very late it would be a DNF for Max. 

 

He didn't touch anyone, stayed away from the line and rejoined safely. What more do you want from someone who simply locked up?

[Shambolic]

Nah, doesn't work that way. This incident was fully Max's fault. Its easy to look alongside when you don't brake and just dive on the outside of Hamilton. Hamilton definitely had that corner.

 

It's also easy to look alongside when you're alongside. If Verstappen had outbraked himself into the runoff then fair enough, but less fair he was put there by another driver.

 

Just as it's unacceptable when he or anyone else does it. The sport really needs to sort this out. Crowding a driver off track is meant to be a big no-no, but the "The other guy had the line" seems to excuse it time after time.

[ClubmanGT]

Nah, doesn't work that way. This incident was fully Max's fault. Its easy to look alongside when you don't brake and just dive on the outside of Hamilton. Hamilton definitely had that corner.

 

The incident that led to Hamilton rear ending Max and 5s+10s penalty to Max was more 50-50. Max arguably had that corner and lost it on braking. Should have been racing incident. 

 

If he hadn't carried the extra speed in, he would have been collected by Bottas, out of control again when behind the championship-fighting Red Bull. 

 

He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. 

[absinthedude]

Max outbreaks himself again, as he assumes everyone will get out of his way

 

And there is the crux of the matter. Max *never* yields, *never* backs out even when it is clear that a move isn't going to work. He intimidates the others and assumes they will get out of his way.

 

Senna was somewhat similar, except Senna quickly learned that there were a small number of other drivers who wouldn't. And adjusted his driving accordingly. 

 

Max is a fantastic driver. Tremendously aggressive, usually in a positive way. But he needs to see the bigger picture sometimes. 

[ClubmanGT]

He intimidates the others and assumes they will get out of his way.

 

 

How is this any different to what LH does every time he closes down space? It's a blight on the sport and it needs to be stopped. 

[smitten]

How is this any different to what LH does every time he closes down space? It's a blight on the sport and it needs to be stopped. 

Hamilton always stays on track himself, Verstappen not so much.

[ClubmanGT]

the Silverstone incident is no different to any other of the incidents involving Max, he just never knows when to yield.

 

Maybe check who the stewards predominantly found at fault in Silverstone? 

 

Gotta love the gymnastics though. 

 

Incident judged to be Hamilton's fault: Actually just Max's fault, LH did nothing wrong.

Incident judged to be Max's fault: Further evidence that Max is dangerous. 

[ClubmanGT]

Hamilton always stays on track himself, Verstappen not so much.

 

... and fails to leave room for anyone else. He literally got a warning for this yesterday. 

[smitten]

... and fails to leave room for anyone else. He literally got a warning for this yesterday. 

And that warning was the only amusing episode in yesterday's sorry 'race'

 

Edit: It wasn't actually a warning.

Edited by smitten, 06 December 2021 - 20:08.

[cpbell]

Its either both wrong or right, so tell. What did you think of brazil

I think Max got terminal understeer from being offline and having greater momentum and that he was happy to take the chance because he surmised that Lewis would run wide rather than crash.  Not deliberate in terms of "I'm going to crash into him" but not doing anything to avoid it either.

[Dhillon]

Sharing an article from the-race, -- https://the-race.com...stappens-error/

 

some excerpt -

 

On impeding-

 

 

Mercedes and Hamilton are fortunate to have got away without a grid penalty that’s the normal punishment for this. After all, we have seen such penalties for impeding in practice before and it’s usually about team and driver.

----------------

The stewards declared that this is not to be taken as a precedent. That’s a convenient and not entirely satisfactory way to make an irregular decision that doesn’t impact the title battle without setting a new precedent for the future.

And there were two yellow flag indiscretions by Lewis, a yellow flag being waved where Yuki Tsunoda went wide and a light board.

[pacwest]

1. Lewis and Bottas were not penalised for or being further than 10 cars away from Verstappen behind safety car, Vettel was penalised for that.

 

2. Lewis was not penalised for impeding in FP3, Gutirriez was penalised for that.

1. As has been pointed out to you multiple times, the ten car length rule DOES NOT APPLY at that point. We've all tried to make you understand the rules. Maybe watch the SKY race again and listen to them point it out. Max doesn't even know the rule so I will give you that initially, but not after MULTIPLE times we have explained it to you. Max doesn't seem to know a few critical rules and it really shows. 

2. Blatant whataboutism. I will not respond to silly stuff like that. It's not avoiding. It's not letting THIS discussion devolve. You can start a new thread saying "Explain why X happened half a century ago and why it is not applicable today with today's rules?". You'll get some great answers.

Please, just the 10 car rule thing go. You are wrong.

[cpbell]

On impeding-

And there were two yellow flag indiscretions by Lewis, a yellow flag being waved where Yuki Tsunoda went wide and a light board.

Yes, and it's utterly obvious that Lord Lucan, riding Shergar, cut across the track during the race causing Max to hit the brakes.

[BRK]

Had to find this thread to add more infringements at the last race.

 

--Hamilton overtakes outside the track and gains a lasting advantage - 'No investigation necessary'. Of course.

--Toto Wolff, the team principal of Mercedes, publicly calls Masi and influences the outcome of a crucial race by asking for 'no safety car, please, Michael'. WTF? This calls for a suspension of this guy from motorsport and allowing him into the paddock. But oh no, no action taken. Of course.

[statman]

I found it absolutely ridiculous from Toto Wolff to basically order "no safety car!!" during one of the earlier retirements in a message to the FIA.

 

yeah sure people will say it was just giving his opinion etc. But his tone, my goodness..