11 replies to this topic

[engineblock1]

I am just wondering if there are rules that force a damaged car to pit in case it can be source of debris? Today it looks a lot of debris was being spread periodically by cars involved in some incident earlier on. For instance Vettel's AM looked like a distributor of it after that collision with Tsunoda. Similary Hamiltons Merc could have further spread more debris after that tag with Verstappen.

I remember back in France '07 Kimi Raikkonen kept driving his Ferrari after a part (cannot desribe) kept hanging and neither Ferrari pitted him nor race control warned Ferrari to do so. Such parts can cause easily a '09 Hungary type incident with Massa.

 

Why is it that such safety critical situations are not capture by race control? Are there any examples deeper into the past where cars were forced to be retired because they could be a source of hazard?

 

 

 

 

[DaddyCool]

There was Kubica in Italy 09 (IIRC) as well.

 

Then again we did not have this problem when the cars were not long as a cargo train and did not have these ridiculous snowplow front wings that add nothing to the racing but debris and punctures. Exploding Pirellis do not help either...

[sheSgoTthElooK]

Because FIA is not consistent. 

[SenorSjon]

We have a meatball for this. But after he forgot to use it Japan 2019 (Leclerc shedding parts) he always seems to forget he has it.

[Clatter]

I am just wondering if there are rules that force a damaged car to pit in case it can be source of debris? Today it looks a lot of debris was being spread periodically by cars involved in some incident earlier on. For instance Vettel's AM looked like a distributor of it after that collision with Tsunoda. Similary Hamiltons Merc could have further spread more debris after that tag with Verstappen.

I remember back in France '07 Kimi Raikkonen kept driving his Ferrari after a part (cannot desribe) kept hanging and neither Ferrari pitted him nor race control warned Ferrari to do so. Such parts can cause easily a '09 Hungary type incident with Massa.

 

Why is it that such safety critical situations are not capture by race control? Are there any examples deeper into the past where cars were forced to be retired because they could be a source of hazard?

 

The Kimi one was a broken exhaust, and was held on, flapping in the breeze, by a sensor cable. They even did a pitstop with it in that condition and did not remove it. Flew off across the track a few laps later. That could have easily gone over the fence and into the crowd.

[OneAndOnly]

The Kimi one was a broken exhaust, and was held on, flapping in the breeze, by a sensor cable. They even did a pitstop with it in that condition and did not remove it. Flew off across the track a few laps later. That could have easily gone over the fence and into the crowd.

Or create Massa in Hungary 2009. like incident. RC are sometimes on border of criminal offense. I got hit by bumblebee (I think) once on my motorbike at ~100km/h. I couldn’t believe how hard it was.

[Clatter]

Or create Massa in Hungary 2009. like incident. RC are sometimes on border of criminal offense. I got hit by bumblebee (I think) once on my motorbike at ~100km/h. I couldn’t believe how hard it was.

 

I agree. There are some times where you can understand them having doubts whether to bring them in, that should not have been one of them.

[Frood]

Yeah, I'm really not sure why modern F1 has an aversion to using the black & orange / meatball flag. There's so many situations where it's warranted and it never gets used.

[Anderis]

Imagine how much potential for controversy this has.It's not always very clear how much damage the car has and how much debris it's going to produce and how unsafe it's going to be, but the stewards will have the power to just eliminate a car from scoring a strong results due to some sort of a collision that might have not even be a fault of a given driver and potentially change the outcome of championship battles this way. It's impossible to police consistently because every collision is different and will have a different impact on the car each time. No wonder they don't try to police this too strictly.

Edited by Anderis, 05 December 2021 - 21:30.

[Myrvold]

Imagine how much potential for controversy this has.It's not always very clear how much damage the car has and how much debris it's going to produce and how unsafe it's going to be, but the stewards will have the power to just eliminate a car from scoring a strong results due to some sort of a collision that might have not even be a fault of a given driver and potentially change the outcome of championship battles this way. It's impossible to police consistently because every collision is different and will have a different impact on the car each time. No wonder they don't try to police this too strictly.

 

Which is why, again, based on what we've learned from FIA courses. Loose parts needs to be removed or fastened. As long as it's loose then it's not safe (in terms of possibility of hitting other cars, punctures, hitting drivers, marshalls etc. etc.

Again though, what FIA says and what FIA does are different things.

[Atreiu]

Gilles laughs.

[engineblock1]

Imagine how much potential for controversy this has.It's not always very clear how much damage the car has and how much debris it's going to produce and how unsafe it's going to be, but the stewards will have the power to just eliminate a car from scoring a strong results due to some sort of a collision that might have not even be a fault of a given driver and potentially change the outcome of championship battles this way. It's impossible to police consistently because every collision is different and will have a different impact on the car each time. No wonder they don't try to police this too strictly.

 

Now a days every stewards' decision somehow becomes a controversy. However, your point is understandable and it all makes sense until some flying part (not from an accident) but a cruising car causes injury.
Yesterday in Jeddah it was clear that some cars were continuously spreading debris warranting a VSC every few laps. People are blaming circuit but this was poor management of hazardous situation as well as not warning the source car to act accordingly. Vettel had quite some bodywork missing and more was coming off yet he kept driving without any warnings whatsoever.