59 replies to this topic

[Rupertlt1]

Snetterton, Molyslip Morris 1100 race, 29 September 1962

I've managed to patch together these fragments from photographs and a report — does anybody have an entry list to match the cars with the drivers? 

#91 734 NJO

#90 901 NWL

#89 744 NJO Graham Hill

#88 743 NJO Don Morley

#87 731 NJO Mike Parkes

#85 732 NJO John Whitmore

#83 735 NJO

#82 737 NJO Jim Clark (Autosport road test car)

#81 733 NJO Jack Brabham 

#80 742 NJO Christabel Carlisle

 

Graham Warner, Roy Salvadori, Alan Hutcheson, Tony Maggs, Trevor Taylor, Sir John Whitmore (winner)

12 cars entered.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 12 December 2021 - 07:53.

[cooper997]

Rupert, a little bit more of the jigsaw.

 

I'm not privy to the programme. But would be surprised if the entry list quotes the regos too. This event ran over 15 laps and 100 quid up for grabs, with 6 GP drivers and the rest from (then) GT/Saloon/Rally drivers. Trevor Taylor was also involved in what was a promotion for then new 1100 released on August 15.

 

Christabel Carlisle's book has a couple of photos. One shows most of the 6 GP drivers as bees to the honeypot, with 4 out of 5 of them (in the photo) very interested in being with Christabel.

 

CC was car 80. Don Morley was in 743 NJO, rather than Maggs, but not sure of the number. Remove the questions marks, G Hill and J Whitmore indeed as you have.

 

As far as I'm aware,results ended with Whitmore, Hill and Warner.in the first 3.

 

 

Stephen

[Rupertlt1]

Stephen,

 

Many thanks. I've amended the original post to include your contribution.

I know the programme is unlikely to include the registration numbers — my research aims to be better than anything published at the time.

There is a set of photographs at Revs and I'm hoping to caption them all.

I'm also intrigued by the thought that there is an old Morris 1100 somewhere under a tarpaulin that was once driven by Jim Clark, or better yet, by Christabel Carlisle, who raced a mini at the Crystal Palace back when I were a lad. 

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 12 December 2021 - 08:09.

[cooper997]

Rupert, I assumed it was a REVS project you were working on.

 

A bit more digging since my other post has Graham Warner as car 84 with what appears to be 739 NJO. Google took me to an alamy/mirrorpix shot of the finish. Shows how close Graham Hill was to a win and third placed Warner trailing Whitmore.

 

Period mags, Motor Racing and Sporting Motorist published a couple of photos. Both show Tony Maggs in car 83 735 NJO.

 

 

Stephen

[Ardmore]

This photo is from Jack Brabham's article in Motor Racing, November 1962.

 

The caption has the two drivers as Tony Maggs and Jim Clark

 

.

 

 

[RobMk2a]

Rupert I have the programme if you need a copy.

Rob

Event Two The Molyslip Trophy
A 15 lap Scratch Race in Morris ADO 16. 1100 cars

The cars in this race are provided by the Nuffield Organisiation.
By invitation only.

#93 blank in programme
#92 blank in programme
#91 734 NJO programme says Alan Hutcheson
#90 901 NWL Programme says Trevor Taylor
#89 744 NJO Graham Hill
#88 743 NJO Don Morley
#87 731 NJO Mike Parkes
#86 Roy Salvadori
#85 732 NJO John Whitmore programme says to be nominated
#84 John Surtees in programme
#83 735 NJO Tony Maggs
#82 737 NJO Jim Clark (Autosport road test car)
#81 733 NJO Jack Brabham - Programme says Sir John Whitmore
#80 742 NJO Christabel Carlisle

[Perruqueporte]

Stephen,
 
Many thanks. I've amended the original post to include your contribution.
I know the programme is unlikely to include the registration numbers — my research aims to be better than anything published at the time.
There is a set of photographs at Revs and I'm hoping to caption them all.
I'm also intrigued by the thought that there is an old Morris 1100 somewhere under a tarpaulin that was once driven by Jim Clark, or better yet, by Christabel Carlisle, who raced a mini at the Crystal Palace back when I were a lad. 
 
RGDS RLT

Notwithstanding the historic motorsport aspect, Rupert, if you find that one or more of the 1100s still exist, that will be great. These were terrific cars, in my view. I had three of them at various times - an Austin, a Morris and a Vandal Plas which cost me, respectively, £35, £40 and £90.

Christopher W.

[d j fox]

...er back in the 70s my first car was a (used) Morris 1100 A workmate had one too and every Monday morning we’d share “what went wrong with yours this weekend?” stories. I won when the hydro-elastic suspension sprung a leak on the left hand side resulting in very lopsided car!
As a further aside Dick Jacobs ran an MG 1100 in the 62&63 Motor 6 hour races at Brands for Hedges/Foster and Écurie Wild ran Kilburn/Garbett in the 62 race with a Morris- one of the Snett cars?

[Ardmore]

Brabham was definitely in car 81. He mentions in his article that he "got really tangled up in a dice with Roy Salvadori and someone else."

 

[Catalina Park]

I wonder if Roscoe Films may have some footage?

[cooper997]

Here's the 2 photos published in Pablo Raybould's 2016 'Christabel Carlisle Mini Virtuoso' book. Hence my bees to the honeypot comment in post 2!

 

Pablo has/ had a facebook page selling the books, not sure if copies can still be procured. Failing that I can give an email address via pm.

 

 

 

Stephen

[Rupertlt1]

Brabham was definitely in car 81. He mentions in his article that he "got really tangled up in a dice with Roy Salvadori and someone else."

 

 

Jack Brabham #81 is shown in this photograph, and you can see his name written on the front wing:

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT

[BRG]

I suppose you can race anything, as the 2CV racing series demonstrates.  But the ADO16 is really not a very good car for it.  Great on the road - smooth ride, loads of room - but with terminal understeer and 27 turns lock to lock on the steering wheel, just not a track car. 

 

I learnt to drive in 1100s (mostly Austin, but with a bonus MG on a couple of lessons) and it was an ideal learner's car.  I don't think would want to race one though.

[Rupertlt1]

I suppose you can race anything, as the 2CV racing series demonstrates.  But the ADO16 is really not a very good car for it.  Great on the road - smooth ride, loads of room - but with terminal understeer and 27 turns lock to lock on the steering wheel, just not a track car. 

 

I learnt to drive in 1100s (mostly Austin, but with a bonus MG on a couple of lessons) and it was an ideal learner's car.  I don't think would want to race one though.

 

Presumably these twelve jockeys were on an 'earner' from B.M.C.? (The things Graham Hill had to do to keep body and soul together!)

 

RGDS RLT  

Edited by Rupertlt1, 13 December 2021 - 16:45.

[john winfield]

I suppose you can race anything, as the 2CV racing series demonstrates.  But the ADO16 is really not a very good car for it.  Great on the road - smooth ride, loads of room - but with terminal understeer and 27 turns lock to lock on the steering wheel, just not a track car. 

 

I learnt to drive in 1100s (mostly Austin, but with a bonus MG on a couple of lessons) and it was an ideal learner's car.  I don't think would want to race one though.

 

Just not a track car?!!  In 1967, the week after the Grand Prix, my Dad drove us around the Nurburgring in the family Austin 1100.  Fully laden, flying at Pflanzgarten, and right on the limit through the Karussel, it handled like a dream. Perhaps I exaggerate. Jim Clark had been on pole with an 8.04.1.  I think we may have been nearer the 28 minute mark, but we did stop to check on the occupants of an overturned Renault 8. 

[Rupertlt1]

For the first time the full set:

 

#93 blank in programme

#92 blank in programme

#91 734 NJO, Programme: Alan Hutcheson

#90 901 NWL, Programme: Trevor Taylor

#89 744 NJO, Graham Hill

#88 743 NJO, Don Morley

#87 731 NJO, Mike Parkes

#86 745 NJO, Roy Salvadori

#85 732 NJO, Programme TBN: John Whitmore

#84 739 NJO, John Surtees in programme; Graham Warner

#83 735 NJO, Tony Maggs

#82 737 NJO, Jim Clark (Autosport road test car, 17 August, 1962, Tartan Red)

#81 733 NJO, Programme says Sir John Whitmore; Jack Brabham 

#80 742 NJO, Christabel Carlisle

 

Now we need some colour pictures! Do any of these cars survive? Appear elsewhere? They were the press fleet cars. 

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 14 December 2021 - 10:25.

[BRG]

Just not a track car?!!  In 1967, the week after the Grand Prix, my Dad drove us around the Nurburgring in the family Austin 1100.  Fully laden, flying at Pflanzgarten, and right on the limit through the Karussel, it handled like a dream. Perhaps I exaggerate. Jim Clark had been on pole with an 8.04.1.  I think we may have been nearer the 28 minute mark, but we did stop to check on the occupants of an overturned Renault 8. 

I suspect the distinguished competition record of the ADO16 says more about this matter than either of us.

 

Hope the Renaultists were OK!  I would have preferred to use a R8 than a 1100 round the 'Ring!

Edited by BRG, 14 December 2021 - 10:41.

[Derwent Motorsport]

Presumably you have typed the registrations in to the DVLA site to see if they still exist, or perhaps contacted the 1100/1300 Owners Club? 

[Rupertlt1]

Presumably you have typed the registrations in to the DVLA site to see if they still exist, or perhaps contacted the 1100/1300 Owners Club? 

 

Not yet. Still sorting out pictures. RGDS RLT

[Geoff E]

Lord Nuffield was pictured next to 732 NJO in a "launch" photo. https://www.aronline.../bmc/1100-1300/

[BRG]

Presumably you have typed the registrations in to the DVLA site to see if they still exist, or perhaps contacted the 1100/1300 Owners Club? 

Given how few of that model have survived the tin-worm, that might be a waste of time!

[pete53]

I suspect the distinguished competition record of the ADO16 says more about this matter than either of us.

 

Hope the Renaultists were OK!  I would have preferred to use a R8 than a 1100 round the 'Ring!

Distinguished indeed

 

I don't remember ever seeing an 1100 race (apart, of course, from the event in focus here). Does anyone else know differently?

[Glengavel]

Distinguished indeed

 

I don't remember ever seeing an 1100 race (apart, of course, from the event in focus here). Does anyone else know differently?

 

Back in the mid 80s I was at a stock car meeting in Long Eaton. Last event of the night was a demolition derby and one of the cars was an Austin or Morris 1100/1300. It basically ran and hid from all the bigger tin as much as possible, the audience cheering it on. At one point the engine and body shell appeared to be two different entities, held together by the steering column. Inevitably it got run over by the bigger boys but IIRC it was one of three still running.

[d j fox]

Distinguished indeed

 

I don't remember ever seeing an 1100 race (apart, of course, from the event in focus here). Does anyone else know differently?

 

As I said above: As a further aside Dick Jacobs ran an MG 1100 in the 62&63 Motor 6 hour races at Brands for Hedges/Foster and Écurie Wild ran Kilburn/Garbett in the 62 race with a Morris- one of the Snett cars?

 

See the Frank de Jong site;

1962: 1962 Brands Hatch 6 hours (touringcarracing.net)

1963: 1963 ETCCC - round 3 (touringcarracing.net)

[Catalina Park]

In Australia the Morris 1100 was raced in the Sandown 6 Hour, the Bathurst 500 and a bunch of other events.

My first season of club racing was in a Morris 1100 in 1981.

Edited by Catalina Park, 15 December 2021 - 07:11.

[DUFFY]

Harry Ratcliffe raced an MG1100. Registration 4216DK.

 

[Rupertlt1]

Here is MH 3 on the 1963 R.A.C. Rally — this is likely the #164 car of Bill Ward/Ray Joss?

 

https://library.revs...ion=p17257coll1

 

RGDS RLT 

[BRG]

A picture that rather proves my contention that is was just not a suitable car for the track.  Understeer, body roll...

 

But people will always venture out into competition in unsuitable vehicles.  I can remember once spectating on a rally on the Army land near Aldershot.  It was on Bricksbury Hill, a famously rough stage, when round the corner emerged a Rover 105 Coupe.  Oh well, I supposed the sumptuous leather seats were more comfortable than most!

[Catalina Park]

A picture that rather proves my contention that is was just not a suitable car for the track.  Understeer, body roll...

If you think they understeer you are driving them wrong. I can make it understeer, I can make it oversteer. I just can't make it beat a 1275cc Mini.

 

[Rupertlt1]

As I said above: As a further aside Dick Jacobs ran an MG 1100 in the 62&63 Motor 6 hour races at Brands for Hedges/Foster and Écurie Wild ran Kilburn/Garbett in the 62 race with a Morris- one of the Snett cars?

 

See the Frank de Jong site;

1962: 1962 Brands Hatch 6 hours (touringcarracing.net)

1963: 1963 ETCCC - round 3 (touringcarracing.net)

 

The Kilburn/Garbett car was 792 PAF, so not at Snetterton. Ran with an oil cooler in front of the grille. RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 15 December 2021 - 19:34.

[Odseybod]

For the first time the full set:

 

#93 blank in programme

#92 blank in programme

#91 734 NJO, Programme: Alan Hutcheson

#90 901 NWL, Programme: Trevor Taylor

#89 744 NJO, Graham Hill

#88 743 NJO, Don Morley

#87 731 NJO, Mike Parkes

#86 745 NJO, Roy Salvadori

#85 732 NJO, Programme TBN: John Whitmore

#84 739 NJO, John Surtees in programme; Graham Warner

#83 735 NJO, Tony Maggs

#82 737 NJO, Jim Clark (Autosport road test car, 17 August, 1962, Tartan Red)

#81 733 NJO, Programme says Sir John Whitmore; Jack Brabham 

#80 742 NJO, Christabel Carlisle

 

Now we need some colour pictures! Do any of these cars survive? Appear elsewhere? They were the press fleet cars. 

 

RGDS RLT

Just for info, one that doesn't appear on Rupert's list is 902 AWL, which was The Motor's (red) road test car. Perhaps it was in no condition to go racing once they'd finished with it?

 

My Dad took us round the Nurburgring in the family MG 1100. I've a vague memory that the Karussel kept turning for much longer than expected or considered decent ...

[BRG]

If you think they understeer you are driving them wrong. 
 

I haven't driven one since the day I passed my driving test in one.  But I know that all FWD cars understeer, even the modern ones if you push them hard enough.  The one in your photo is understeering.  Lift off, and FWD cars of that era would go to oversteer (in the case of my 970 Cooper S, dramatically so!), modern ones, not so much.

[Rupertlt1]

I haven't driven one since the day I passed my driving test in one.  But I know that all FWD cars understeer, even the modern ones if you push them hard enough.  The one in your photo is understeering.  Lift off, and FWD cars of that era would go to oversteer (in the case of my 970 Cooper S, dramatically so!), modern ones, not so much.

 

I think the original Morris (and Austin) 1100s came with cross-ply tyres, which made the switch from understeer to oversteer quite dramatic?

Did not the handling change when radials appeared?

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 17 December 2021 - 13:53.

[Rupertlt1]

Just for info, one that doesn't appear on Rupert's list is 902 AWL, which was The Motor's (red) road test car. Perhaps it was in no condition to go racing once they'd finished with it?

 

My Dad took us round the Nurburgring in the family MG 1100. I've a vague memory that the Karussel kept turning for much longer than expected or considered decent ...

 

The Autocar test car was 4-door 736 NJO. RGDS RLT

[cooper997]

More Snetterton related

 

The September 1962 issue of 'Sports Car' make a brief mention of the upcoming Snetterton 1100 race in the snippets 'On the beam' page.

"ADO16s will have a special race at Snetterton on September 30. Several motor racing personalities will take part " Stated date incorrect of course.

 

Autosport's 1100 release issue cover shows what would be Jim Clark's car for Snetterton in it's prior BMC Publicity press photo mode

cooper997 collection

 

Then in 5/10/62 Autosport's Snetterton report it shows this photo (the 1100 race report is on another page).

 

 

Stephen

[Rupertlt1]

I've looked to find where the Autosport cover shot above was taken — the best I can say is somewhere in the vicinity of Broadway, Worcestershire. Does anybody know it?

 

RGDS RLT

[BRG]

I've looked to find where the Autosport cover shot above was taken — the best I can say is somewhere in the vicinity of Broadway, Worcestershire. Does anybody know it?

 

RGDS RLT

Why do you think Broadway?  That area, and Broadway itself,  is very much Cotswold stone rather than half-timbered housing.  And the house in the background is brick which is not very Cotswold-y either.   

[Rupertlt1]

Why do you think Broadway?  That area, and Broadway itself,  is very much Cotswold stone rather than half-timbered housing.  And the house in the background is brick which is not very Cotswold-y either.   

 

Another picture in the set is from Broadway, and the launch event was in Worcestershire?

 

RGDS RLT

[BRG]

Another picture in the set is from Broadway, and the launch event was in Worcestershire?

 

RGDS RLT

OK, it must be somewhere a bit further west into Worcestershire.  Broadway is almost exclusively stone walls and slate roof in the traditional Cotswold style, but as you move west you get the more rustic 'chocolate box' type of half-timbered thatched cottage.  

[cooper997]

I've just reminded myself that there was a partial sequel to the Snetterton 1100 race at Warwick Farm's 1964 Tasman meeting.

 

The BMC Australia-built Morris 1100 was released to the Australian market on 17/2/64 - the day after Warwick Farm. Where the Tasman drivers did parade laps in 12 Morris 1100. Or as a handwritten note on my WF Event 4 Tasman programme entry list states "Exhibition of Morris 1100s by Event 4 Drivers"

 

As the following photo caption in BMC Australia's factory newspaper mentions the cars were numbered to the drivers own race car.

cooper997 collection

 

In Graham Howard's Lex Davison book, he mentions Bruce McLaren instigated some of the drivers starting in reverse.

 

 

Stephen

[Rupertlt1]

OK, it must be somewhere a bit further west into Worcestershire.  Broadway is almost exclusively stone walls and slate roof in the traditional Cotswold style, but as you move west you get the more rustic 'chocolate box' type of half-timbered thatched cottage.  

 

The cottage is here at Holy Mill Cottage, The Cross, Childswickam, Broadway, Worcestershire, WR12 7HJ:

 

https://www.pinteres...04149815575665/

 

Less than three miles from Broadway.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 19 December 2021 - 09:59.

[Catalina Park]

Another promotion for the Morris 1100 not long after the Australian launch involved these lads...

[Catalina Park]

Another promotion for the Morris 1100 not long after the Australian launch involved these lads...

 

Appears to be understeering...

[Rupertlt1]

Street view:

 

https://www.google.c...8h,93.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suD6jMNSf8-_qbKgd79mDIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

RGDS RLT 

Edited by Rupertlt1, 19 December 2021 - 10:10.

[cooper997]

Rupert, well done. Clearly the owners of the property got fed up with those pesky press photographers pulling up on their grass!

 

 

Stephen

[Allan Lupton]

Street view:

 

https://www.google.c...8h,93.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suD6jMNSf8-_qbKgd79mDIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

RGDS RLT 

Yes, you beat me to it by minutes! The modern version of Street view seems to be slower in travelling along roads than the old one was, so it took time.

[BRG]

Street view:

 

https://www.google.c...8h,93.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suD6jMNSf8-_qbKgd79mDIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

RGDS RLT 

Well done, sir!  

 

I did have a cursory scout around Childswickham on Street View as it was so close to Broadway and I had a vague memory of some similar cottages there.  But I did not look right down that dead-end lane. Amazing how little changes in the English countryside!

 

I can sleep peacefully tonight!  

Edited by BRG, 19 December 2021 - 10:56.

[RS2000]

One thing that's changed is that they don't have 120 car entry championship  road rallies passing their houses every month or so. More's the pity.

I used to pass through Broadway twice every other weekend at one time. It's now got a bypass. I'm pretty sure I ran an LCAMC/ACSMC championship rally through it nearly 50 years ago as a link section to a petrol halt. Probably caused much less disturbance than the multitudes of tourists walking up and down what was then the A44 all day in the summer, looking in all the windows of private houses.

Edited by RS2000, 19 December 2021 - 20:08.

[Rupertlt1]

One thing that's changed is that they don't have 120 car entry championship  road rallies passing their houses every month or so. More's the pity.

I used to pass through Broadway twice every other weekend at one time. It's now got a bypass. I'm pretty sure I ran an LCAMC/ACSMC championship rally through it nearly 50 years ago as a link section to a petrol halt. Probably caused much less disturbance than the multitudes of tourists walking up and down what was then the A44 all day in the summer, looking in all the windows of private houses.

 

Can you remember the name of the rally?

 

RGDS RLT

[BRG]

I thought I knew the Cotswolds pretty well from my own rallying experience.  But in recent years, I realise that I just know the many country roads but hardly any of the towns or villages, as we rarely troubled them during rallies!  And if we did, it was the middle of the night when you couldn't really see very much of them.  I don't recall ever passing through Broadway though, although I am certain that some did.  I have only recently visited it to see the excellent new (but very traditional) station built by the heritage GWSR.  Well worth a visit as is the main village, despite the hordes of other tourists that fill the place - pandemics permitting.