443 replies to this topic

[Risil]

You remember this, it just happened! Max is behind off the start, but has soft tyres and a good run on Lewis going down to that tight esses. He doesn't have long to make a move before Lewis speeds out of sight. Max sends it up the inside, keeps two wheels within the track, whereas Lewis bails out on the corner and floors it down the run-off.

 

Stewards say no action needed, because Lewis gave back his advantage. (Note: they didn't say Lewis was fully entitled to vanish off into the runoff area.)

 

What do you think? Too harsh? Too lenient? Distinction without a difference?

[Spillage]

If there was a gravel trap there, Verstappen would be in the lead. Lewis clearly gained an advantage by flooring it over the tarmac runoff and should have given the place back.

[Disgrace]

The whole thing just sucks.

[Marklar]

Max overtake wasnt on, c'mon.

Lewis didnt probably give enough back.

Everyone loses

[krapmeister]

Unfortunately for Max, you live by the sword you die by the sword.

Edited by krapmeister, 12 December 2021 - 13:31.

[Diablobb81]

Why fight an overtake?

Just floor it through the corner.

[Ivanhoe]

Dive bomb. Good decision by the stewards.

[juicy sushi]

If you don’t try to make the corner, you didn’t make a pass. At no point did Max attempt to make the corner until he had made sure he had run the Merc off the track. It wasn’t a genuine passing attempt, it was an accident attempt.

[Kev00]

If you go for the inside at a chicane, make the corner and stay on track, that’s what’s called an overtake. We see this at Monza every year when the guy on the outside skips it and either gives the place back or gets a penalty

[muelte]

This is a joke. Stewards totally lost it. Hamilton probably didn't need all this embarrassing to win the tittle anyway

[SenorSjon]

Connelly + Warwick in the stewarding room. Even if Hamilton steered into Verstappen, they would absolve him from any blame.

[Mila]

MV beat LH to the apex; it was his corner.

 

It's understandable that LH would elect to go off-track, but he should have been required to cede first place.  

[tmekt]

So I guess you can cut corners from now on whenever there is an attempt to pass. Just as long you back off a bit afterwards, to reset the time interval to whatever it was before the corner. No matter how much advantage you gained by not having to even to try to stay on the track.

[Lesky]

Terrible decision by the stewards, decided the championship essentially, what a disaster!  Just hand Merc the title on a silver plate without racing, I would have accepted that over this.

Edited by Lesky, 12 December 2021 - 13:39.

[thechin]

Max overtake wasnt on, c'mon.

Lewis didnt probably give enough back.

Everyone loses

It was very much on judging by the fact he got passed and stayed on track. People's minds have been warped by the racing and the tracks we have nowadays. 

[Diablobb81]

Max overtake wasnt on, c'mon.

Lewis didnt probably give enough back.

Everyone loses

Of course it was on. Max dived on the inside from far enough.

If you can't make you corner because a car is in front of you, you brake.

Edited by Diablobb81, 12 December 2021 - 13:39.

[AnR]

That was terrible by the judges, gave Merc the title on a plate 

[Shambolic]

Claim seems to be Hamilton gave back the advantage he gained from flooring it across the runoff.

 

Which seems to be at odds with him clearly having kept the advantage and built on it...

[SenorSjon]

I can't fathom why this is different from SA where Verstappen got penalized for a very similar incident.

[fisssssi]

Remember the days when the driver on the inside would allow some space for the other driver to continue on the outside? Those days are long gone.

[MrAerodynamicist]

Perez-Hamilton showed what we get when drivers actually race and don't force each other off the road.

[muelte]

Remember the days when the driver on the inside would allow some space for the other driver to continue on the outside? Those days are long gone.

Do you even know what a chicane is?

[SenorSjon]

Remember the days when the driver on the inside would allow some space for the other driver to continue on the outside? Those days are long gone.

That space is made outside the track now.
Felt very similar to Mexico when he gunned for the shortcut.

[v@sh]

Fine with the decision, Max went for the divebomb knowing that any sort of collison benefits him. Just because he is within the white lines as per Brundle doesn't mean he is entitled to barge and bundle through another car especially when car has to turn to avoid a collison because the other car has not been given room.

 

Clever by Max, he has always been a brilliant on the limit defender but I don't agree that a car that divebombs and makes the corner by forcing another car off at the track to avoid a collison should be able to benefit from poor racecraft.

 

If Lewis turned in on the line and space he should be allowed to, that is a penalty for Verstappen for causing a collison.

If there is gravel rather than tarmac on the side there, that is a penalty for Verstappen for forcing someone off the road into gravel.

[Marklar]

btw the poll misses the option I would have voted: Hamilton was pushed off the track but didnt give enough back

[tourister46a]

Lewis didn't have much of a choice. Not necessary to give the position back.

[wingwalker]

I guess one could make an argument that Max didn't let car's width on the inside so the move was not legal and therefore Lewis had the right to emerge in front.. well, scratch that, obviously one could as that what stewards did, but the problem is there dozens of dozens of overtakes just like that with the driver conceding the position without even an investigation from the stewards. In my mind that was a legit move. 

 

I was also surprised that Lewis didn't even try to defend the inside on the way in.

[cbo]

Lewis should've given the place back.

With the current way of looking at this issue, overtaking will not be as commonplace as everybody wants.

Mercedes whining about the excellent defense by Perez clearly shows that F1 is still in danger of becomming the racing version of Beverly Hills Housewives and Wrestling.

That said, the Mercedes is obviously so much faster on this track, that the issue is moot with regards to the championships.

[MCR]

There has no consistency all season.

Max got away with several questionable moves with no penalty.

So why care about this one, just one of many incidents all season long.

Edited by MCR, 12 December 2021 - 14:01.

[B Squared]

Different times, different series, but one of our main priorities for Chief Steward Wally Dallenbach's CART IndyCar series was to be well-prepared, and to not be part of the storyline after the race weekend.

[Myrvold]

If you go for the inside at a chicane, make the corner and stay on track, that’s what’s called an overtake. We see this at Monza every year when the guy on the outside skips it and either gives the place back or gets a penalty

 

You can't just run someone off the track though.

 

EDIT: I voted the second option, however I am more "Verstappen forced him off, Hamilton was right to keep first. However I have no idea in regards to giving back advantage and even less an idea of what distance should be between them".

Edited by Myrvold, 12 December 2021 - 14:08.

[Lesky]

Its a fitting end to an abosolute farce of a season, Imola 18 points, Baku 11 points, Hungary 18 points, Silverstone 36 points and then the stewards do just what they need at the last race to give Hamilton a freebie that he really does not need, touche! Hamilton has had every bit of luck in the book, you cant beat that!

Edited by Lesky, 12 December 2021 - 14:12.

[Ivanhoe]

I can't fathom why this is different from SA where Verstappen got penalized for a very similar incident.

I can, both were overoptimistic moves from Max that weren’t really on. Had Lewis not yielded in AD, I’m quite sure Max would have been served a penalty by the stewards. He really should stop with such moves, no matter what Jos taught him.

[Myrvold]

Its a fitting end to an abosolute farce of a season, Imola 18 points, Baku 11 points, Hungary 18 points, Silverstone 36 points and then the stewards do just what they need at the last race to give Hamilton a freebie that he really does not need, touche!

 

Where is the relevance to any of this?

[Disgrace]

Where is the relevance to any of this?

 

Not the point Lesky is making but I think it shows that there were far more costly losses of points incurred than what happened today.

[KeithD68]

Max was overly aggressive and nowhere near the apex, Lewis had to steer to avoid

 

Red Bull wants its cake and eat it

 

They want Max to be given the freedom to drive how he wants, but cry wolf if drivers don't get out the way

Edited by KeithD68, 12 December 2021 - 14:17.

[Lesky]

Where is the relevance to any of this?

The relevance was just that it was a fitting way to end the season, Lewis has been on a lucky killing spree since the season begun, and Max still had the title at the last start when the stewards ludicriously intervened and handed him the title!

[Requiem84]

The day the FIA decided who would be the 2021 champion.

One of the blackest days in the sport.

[CountDooku]

MV beat LH to the apex; it was his corner.

It's understandable that LH would elect to go off-track, but he should have been required to cede first place.

Max did not touch the apex. He didn’t turn until he was nearly off the track!

[MCR]

The day the FIA decided who would be the 2021 champion.

One of the blackest days in the sport.

Don’t worry. The FIA will issue Lewis, as they have issued to max, a non-penalty ‘time penalty’ at the end of the race.

Similar parallels in this incident to a MotoGP incident at Assen in 2015, where Marquez went deep into a corner and Rossi went across the gravel to win the race.

https://youtube.com/...h?v=NGe2NDMeC0w

No penalty for Rossi.

[Requiem84]

So is this rigged or what?

[Diablobb81]

Rigged.

[krapmeister]

The day the FIA decided who would be the 2021 champion.

One of the blackest days in the sport.

 

Still feeling it?

[InfamousArrows]

This will go down as the final attempt to deliberately deny Max his first championship. 100% penalty for Lewis. Luckily Max didn’t need it in the end. Karma.

[shure]

I think it was a legitimate move.  Max stayed on track, so won the corner fair and square.  Poor stewarding I feel.  Ironically I think would have won the place by soon after anyway, his pace was just too strong

[geralt]

This will go down as the final attempt to deliberately deny Max his first championship. 100% penalty for Lewis. Luckily Max didn’t need it in the end. Karma.

These comments are so pathetic. Imagine being a sore winner lol

[Requiem84]

Still feeling it?

Still feeling it towards the Stewards. Masi on the other hand seemed to want to correct it, which was equally insane.

[Scotracer]

It was a bolshy move but you don't expect less for the final race of the year. I think Lewis should have given it back.

 

Ignoring the legality of it, I think Max tried to take the lead too soon. He should have waited for Turn 8 for that move.

[Laster]

Personally don’t think you should be able to dive for the apex and run the other driver off the road. I’m sick of seeing it regardless who does it.

[smitten]

I thought it was over ambitious from Verstappen, but have seen them given either way in the past.