9199 replies to this topic

[alg7_munif]

Why is the wierd treatment FIA has given to Red Bull and Max Verstappen?

[Nigol]

cAr rAcInG

[anyeis]

Because Masi is making things up as they go

[Risil]

It did feel like Masi was ignoring the procedures. I think there must've been intense pressure to get a race to the flag, regardless of the circumstances.

[TheFish]

You know the answer to this.

[SilverArrow31]

Oh boy not like this... we are back btw 😉

[Gareth]

I think it wasn’t:



Note ‘following lap’ …

Classic Masi.

[Jellyfishcake]

They should have all been let by.

 

Stewards have been making a mess all season

[jwill189]

It did feel like Masi was ignoring the procedures. I think there must've been intense pressure to get a race to the flag, regardless of the circumstances.

 

And that's why they have the red flag/standing start rule for that circumstance.

[smitten]

It did feel like Masi was ignoring the procedures. I think there must've been intense pressure to get a race to the flag, regardless of the circumstances.

Nobody wanted it to end behind a SC (well, I did a little, but not really)

[wingwalker]

Can't wait to hear what they will have to say but that looked like utter BS.

[Ruusperi]

They could invalidate the last lap and form results from lap 57.

[Kev00]

To give you guys something to argue about for the next 4 months

[redreni]

You'd have to ask Massi.

 

For my part I've always been strongly opposed to compelling cars on the lead lap to allow lapped rivals to pass them under the SC. I haven't changed my mind. We've seen today, not for the first time, exactly how ridiculous and unfair it is. The best car and driver lost as a direct result.

Edited by redreni, 12 December 2021 - 14:58.

[PitViperRacing]

Was a very disappointing end to a great season. The whole race from start to finish was a complete farce by race control. I thought they screwed Max over with that first lap decision; but god damn did they steal that race from Hamilton.

[Roadhouse]

It did feel like Masi was ignoring the procedures. I think there must've been intense pressure to get a race to the flag, regardless of the circumstances.

 

Exactly this. I think the same thing would've happened if the positions were reversed.

[chrcol]

I think Masi might be in trouble, the F1 directives state all lapped cars must pass when the race director tells them to unlap.

 

At first I just thought he didnt like Toto as he is consistently more rude to Merc than Red Bull, but I just found out post race he only let 5 past then ended the SC?

 

Thats a clear rule break.

 

I dont think the result will change but I wouldnt be surprised if he is replaced for next year.

 

This is why I posted in the race thread, he wasnt going to let them by so the SC can end early, as I already knew of the rule.

Edited by chrcol, 12 December 2021 - 14:59.

[GTR]

Masi always tend to be very puzzled when under pressure (via calls) from teams

[Coral]

It was intentional by Masi because Lewis was going to win and wanted a last-lap showdown.

 

I feel absolutely gutted, Lewis drove an amazing race today, and it was all for nothing.

[Frank Tuesday]

Because F1 isn't a sport. They only want drama for their Real Housewives of Formula 1 show on Netflix.

[Spyker]

It did feel like Masi was ignoring the procedures. I think there must've been intense pressure to get a race to the flag, regardless of the circumstances.

Agree.

 

Today entertainment won. Sport lost.

 

I guess that is how F1 will be now.

[Lotusse7en]

We must not forget, Max was 2nd when the go ahead was given , he still had to overtake . Lewis could have / should have kept 1st 

[Showty]

What was doing that McLaren behind the leaders?

I agree this needed to finish with proper racing, but it was a mess.

[SagemX]

I think Masi might be in trouble, the F1 directives state all lapped cars must pass when the race director tells them to unlap.

 

At first I just thought he didnt like Toto as he is consistently more rude to Merc than Red Bull, but I just found out post race he only let 5 past then ended the SC?

 

Thats a clear rule break.

 

I dont think the result will change but I wouldnt be surprised if he is replaced for next year.

 

This is why I posted in the race thread, he wasnt going to let them by so the SC can end early, as I already knew of the rule.

Exactly, ignoring the sporting regulations. Once decided that lapped cars may overtake, all lapped cars are required to do so, only once they all have and they decide the safety car is no longer required, the race restarts the following lap, not that lap.

[Spyker]

No matter who you support, you know LH deserved to win this race.

[CountDooku]

I think it wasn’t:



Note ‘following lap’ …

Classic Masi.

Am I correct in saying that the lapped cars going past, and the safety car coming in all happened in the space of 30 seconds or so?

[superdelphinus]

We must not forget, Max was 2nd when the go ahead was given , he still had to overtake . Lewis could have / should have kept 1st

It was shooting a fish in a barrel though

[ConsiderAndGo]

100000% this is going to the Paris courts.

[Peter3hg]

Either let them all go or none. Masi has to go, this was not a fair way to conduct a race.
It isn't a "car race" as Masi put it when he decided which competitors he would let be in that race.

If the most important thing was to have a racing lap then red flag as he so loves to do normally.

[MJB5990]

Legal or not, nothing will change.

[rockdude101]

Masi's last race hopefully. What a terrible year of officiating. Needs desperately overhauling.

[chrcol]

It was intentional by Masi because Lewis was going to win and wanted a last-lap showdown.

 

I feel absolutely gutted, Lewis drove an amazing race today, and it was all for nothing.

 

No issue if the result is fair and square, but whenever a result is due to manipulation and rule breaks its just messed up.

[Mila]

 

Today entertainment won. Sport lost.

 

Pretty much.

[Nigol]

Agree.

Today entertainment won. Sport lost.

I guess that is how F1 will be now.

Harsh but true

[Frank Tuesday]

Because F1 isn't a sport. They only want drama for their Real Housewives of Formula 1 show on Netflix.

[Gareth]

Am I correct in saying that the lapped cars going past, and the safety car coming in all happened in the space of 30 seconds or so?

All happened on the same lap.

Masi had two legal choices: 1 lap of racing with back markers between the two championship rivals, or let the back markers through and restart on the following lap …

He initially made the right call IMO.

Of course he then messed it up.

[Heyli]

I think it wasn’t:



Note ‘following lap’ …

Classic Masi.

What can they do to fix it now though? Give Masi a drive through...?

[NoForumForOldPole]

Let them race

[Huffer]

Merc have to protest this. Looking at the rules, there's no way way just happened is in any way legal. What an absolute joke. 

[ren]

Massive pressure to avoid a safety car finish.

 

The rule book does not have an option for allowing only some cars to unlap. I don't know if there's some "race director can choose to do something else if the situation requires" clause somewhere in the rules.

 

39.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars
that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the
safety car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the
lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car
was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed
around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up
position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in
order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the
racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the
presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the
safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message
"OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams Competitors via the official
messaging system.

https://www.fia.com/..._2020-12-16.pdf

[prty]

I think it wasn’t:



Note ‘following lap’ …

Classic Masi.

 

On the other hand Hamilton's shortcut in the first lap wasn't legal, so it's dangerous to open the "what's legal" box

[MJB5990]

We must not forget, Max was 2nd when the go ahead was given , he still had to overtake . Lewis could have / should have kept 1st

43 lap old hards vs new softs and Lewis couldn't afford a collision..

Absolutely no hope.

[redreni]

Yes, but it doesn't say what the remedy is if the FIA doesn't follow it's own procedure. Maybe there is no remedy?

 

I would just delete from the sporting regs all reference to letting lapped cars overtake. It takes time and laps out of the race, it's unsporting, it's unfair. It's just a way of trying to create fake excitement. I've always maintained it stinks and, today, the stench is there for everybody to smell.

Edited by redreni, 12 December 2021 - 15:04.

[Laster]

I have no idea, if it was legal or not, but I’m quite sure Mercedes will protest and the FIA will shoot it down.

[w00dy]

Legal? In absolute terms? I don't think so.

It is not less legal than last race's red flag position trading.

 

Maybe Toto will sue and we get an interesting off-season courtroom drama, Netflix should film it.

[flyboym3]

Not like this.
Not like this.

[as65p]

It was shooting a fish in a barrel though

So basically what Hamilton and his engine were doing since Brazil.

Edited by as65p, 12 December 2021 - 15:04.

[Mark1865]

Nothing will change, but such an awful way to end such an epic season.

It feels so wrong, but if Mercedes were to subsequently win this in the courts it would feel just as bad.

[CPR]

Being a McLaren supporter I didn't have a particular bone in the drivers championship. But from a sporting perspective that was disgusting. I just cancelled all my F1 related subscriptions

[Scotracer]

Not sure what they can protest. What would be a recourse?