9206 replies to this topic

[Bliman]

The answer is still the same: THERE WAS NO TIME FOR THAT! Do yo get it or should I increase the font size? 

You claim to understand, then you come up with: "That is also not correct. If he wanted to have a lap racing he easily could have let those lapped cars stay,"

I don't know what answer you are searching for, maybe you believe you have a "gotcha" angle, but it is just a pointless arguments about a scenario that did not happen. Masi obviously wanted more than just "a lap of racing", he wanted a lap of racing for the championship. 

I know you have been going on about Sainz since day 1, but seriously, nobody else cares about Sainz, it is only you. 

Maybe you don't care about racing but I do. If we don't have that we have nothing anymore.

I know you said there was no time for that. I read it the first time ok, If there is no time he also can decide to not let those cars unlap themself,

But this is the most telling "Masi obviously wanted more than just "a lap of racing", he wanted a lap of racing for the championship. " .

I think excactly the same I think he only had Hamilton and Max in his thoughts and didn't consider that Sainz could play a role in the championship and race.

[FullOppositeLock]

 

No. It states that the RD had overriding authority of the COTC's decisions in specific areas where the COTC has the role of deciding which action to take, such as the safety car. The rule 15.3 does NOT grant the race director special powers to ignore or change the rules,. It lays out how the COTC may operate and how they interact with with Race Director, and whose judgments have superiority. To say that it gives the RD more power than that is a gross, and I might add in this case purposeful, misinterpretation of the wording of the rule. 

 

In fact, the sporting code clearly states that the Race Director must adhere to the sporting code. And not only that, but the Race Director must follow ALL provisions of the sporting code. The Race Director cannot pick and choose which parts of which regulations they will follow. If the RD decides to let all lapped cars pass during the safety car in contradiction to the COTC, then ALL provisions of that rule MUST be followed. No exceptions.

 

Here's the relevant piece of the regs from 2.1 ( emphasis my own );

1. All drivers, Competitors and officials participating in the Championship undertake, on behalf of themselves, their employees, agents and suppliers, to observe all the provisions as supplemented or amended of the International Sporting Code (the Code), the Formula One Technical Regulations (Technical Regulations), the Formula One Financial Regulations (Financial Regulations) and the present Sporting Regulations together referred to as “the Regulations”.

 

 

I spent most of Friday evening explaining to people in here what article 15.3 actually states, and shure has done much more often and eloquently on many occasions too. Article 15.3 gives the race director overriding authority with respect to the use of the safety car. If you don't believe me, and since you now refer to the FIA International Sporting Code please consider article 11.10 of that code as below, noting the title of the article (Duties of the race director), paragraph 11.10.3 stating unequivocally that the race director has overriding authority (pleins pouvoirs as per the French text, i.e. full authority) and the five sub-paragraphs a to e, specifically the last one):

 

 

The suggestion that article 15.3 only gives the race director to overrule the clerk of the course is pure hogwash. In fact, the clerk of the course has no authority whatsoever on the matters specified without express agreement from the race director.

 

Oh damn, I promised myself not to do this again...

[Lotusse7en]

For me the closest is - the Hand of God - Maradona against England in 86. Even though the referee did not change rules , he was not given a yellow card and the goal stood . Argentina went on to be the champions.

Not close enough. Max and Lewis did not have "a hand" in this, like Maradona had as a player 

[TennisUK]

It is not an argument, it is just how it was. People keep asking "why, why oh why?" When the answer is very simple.

It’s not simple - the simple choice would have been for Masi to have picked one of the two options available under the rules that would have permitted a green flag restart.

1: red flag the race and have a couple of lap dash to the flag.
2: use safety car, keep lapped runners in place and have a 1 lap restart.

The question is, why did he instead opt to invent a new procedure for the safety car restart (that happened to provide a huge advantage to one competitor) instead of using one of the two options available to him under the regulations?

Edited by TennisUK, 19 December 2021 - 19:28.

[Huffer]

I spent most of Friday evening explaining to people in here what article 15.3 actually states, and shure has done much more often and eloquently on many occasions too. Article 15.3 gives the race director overriding authority with respect to the use of the safety car. 

 

The use of the safety car - he does not have the power to pick and choose which parts of the rules he can follow regarding the SC. All I can say is that you must have spent most of Friday night arguing because you were having to come up with some pretty convoluted logic to explain your position. The rule is clear, together with 2.1, that the Race Director MUST follow the regulations as set out. If the RD decides that lapped cars can now overtake, then that's fine. But ALL of the relevant regulation must be followed. That means that all lapped cars must be allowed to pass, and the SC does not come in until the following lap.

[FullOppositeLock]

The use of the safety car - he does not have the power to pick and choose which parts of the rules he can follow regarding the SC. All I can say is that you must have spent most of Friday night arguing because you were having to come up with some pretty convoluted logic to explain your position. The rule is clear, together with 2.1, that the Race Director MUST follow the regulations as set out. If the RD decides that lapped cars can now overtake, then that's fine. But ALL of the relevant regulation must be followed. That means that all lapped cars must be allowed to pass, and the SC does not come in until the following lap.

Article 48 of the F1 sporting regulations is called "Use of the safety car". Clearly the race director, the stewards and FIA don't agree with you that "the use of the safety car" means anything else than "the use of the safety car". As for the rest, clearly you have a different understanding of the meaning of overriding authority/pleins pouvoirs (which translates to absolute or full power).

[Ivanhoe]

Looks like this thread has run it’s course, we’re all awaiting the report of the FIA’s commission. Please discuss further here