35 replies to this topic

[Anderis]

Max would've stayed out an the situation would've been presumably reversed- Lewis with a tyre advantage (albeit not as big as Max) and one lap to overtaje. Do you think he would've stood a better chance under these circumstances?

 

I don't criticise Mercedes because at that point it seemed like a real possibility that the race would've been finished behind the SC, so by pitting they could've basically throw the championship away. But it's still interesting to ponder: what if.

[MJB5990]

Masi would have let all the lapped cars through and we'd have run out of laps.

Edited by MJB5990, 12 December 2021 - 17:13.

[bananaSpanner]

Masi would have let all the lapped cars through and we'd have run out of laps.

This. The end.

[KeithD68]

Mercedes had 2 chances to pit under the VSC earlier

 

It was stupid not to take one of them, the Mercedes was the faster race car and I'd have put money on Lewis over taking on better rubber

 

For all the noise (rightly) about Masi, something also needs to be done about Mercs head of strategy

Edited by KeithD68, 12 December 2021 - 17:15.

[alg7_munif]

Max would've stayed out an the situation would've been presumably reversed- Lewis with a tyre advantage (albeit not as big as Max) and one lap to overtaje. Do you think he would've stood a better chance under these circumstances?

I don't criticise Mercedes because at that point it seemed like a real possibility that the race would've been finished behind the SC, so by pitting they could've basically throw the championship away. But it's still interesting to ponder: what if.

There's no guarantee that the race would not end behind the safety car.

[sabjit]

Merc couldn't pit, the race could have easily not restarted (and as we now know, technically shouldn't have).

[Augurk]

For all his faults, Masi swallowed himself in trying to get a live race finish, he wasn't trying to rig the game to let Max win. It's horrendously stupid reasoning to think he would've decided differently had roles been reversed. 

 

He could've told Lewis to yield position in lap 1 yet decided to let him bolt on and keep his advantage gained. Amazing how they can get one side of the fans to feel aggrieved about decisions for 57 laps and then create the complete opposite in the final lap. 

 

Do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

[PlatenGlass]

 

Do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

 

Yep.

[mclarensmps]

 

Do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

 

Lets not forget that Masi was not planning on letting ANY cars through until Red Bull petitioned him on the radio. It was broadcast on the live feed. 

[timmy bolt]

Mercedes had 2 chances to pit under the VSC earlier

It was stupid not to take one of them, the Mercedes was the faster race car and I'd have put money on Lewis over taking on better rubber

For all the noise (rightly) about Masi, something also needs to be done about Mercs head of strategy

I think they had the one chance. The vsc ended just as ham was coming up to the pit lane entry the 2nd time.

I think a lot is forgotten that ham had this race in the bag. It wasn't like max was on his tail and it might have been sporting to give him one final go. If you are going to adjust the rules for a driver if anyone it should be ham. The sc was already a gift to max. Masi just tied the bow together which just so happened to be Hamilton's shoelaces.

Edited by timmy bolt, 12 December 2021 - 17:52.

[fed up]

Masi would have let all the lapped cars through and we'd have run out of laps.

This 

[Myrvold]

He could've told Lewis to yield position in lap 1 yet decided to let him bolt on and keep his advantage gained.

 

The stewards not Masi decided no investigation.

[Baddoer]

Was SC declared after Hamilton passed pit entry? That left Merc without choice.

[Borko]

It's crazy to think that Masi was bribed byby Red Bull or that he supported Max Verstappen. He is simply a scared, grossly incompetent human being.

[mclarensmps]

It's crazy to think that Masi was bribed byby Red Bull or that he supported Max Verstappen. He is simply a scared, grossly incompetent human being.

 

Yep, he gets bossed around

[timmy bolt]

Was SC declared after Hamilton passed pit entry? That left Merc without choice.

Don't think so. But RB wouldn't have pitted and track position goes to RB with a high chance the race will finish under SC.

RB roles the dice onto softs because there was no point doing the same as the Merc. It wasn't a tactical masterclass

[yolo]

Lets not forget that Masi was not planning on letting ANY cars through until Red Bull petitioned him on the radio. It was broadcast on the live feed. 

 

This.

[jpm2019]

Mercedes had 2 chances to pit under the VSC earlier

It was stupid not to take one of them, the Mercedes was the faster race car and I'd have put money on Lewis over taking on better rubber

For all the noise (rightly) about Masi, something also needs to be done about Mercs head of strategy

At the first possibility he was in front of max, they would not give up track position

At the second possibility it was unsure how long the vsc would last. He could have gotten the full stop time.

With the sc,
Max would have stayed out and defended like a lion. He would have won the race or dnf for both

[w1Y]

For all his faults, Masi swallowed himself in trying to get a live race finish, he wasn't trying to rig the game to let Max win. It's horrendously stupid reasoning to think he would've decided differently had roles been reversed.

He could've told Lewis to yield position in lap 1 yet decided to let him bolt on and keep his advantage gained. Amazing how they can get one side of the fans to feel aggrieved about decisions for 57 laps and then create the complete opposite in the final lap.

Do not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

It was incompetence that crumbled to Horner.

What he should have accepted is as anti climatic as it would have been Lewis was the better driver on the day and deserved ro win the race. It should have ended up der SC. Instead he took it upon himself to screw him

Edited by w1Y, 12 December 2021 - 17:59.

[Ferrim]

Max would've stayed out an the situation would've been presumably reversed- Lewis with a tyre advantage (albeit not as big as Max) and one lap to overtaje. Do you think he would've stood a better chance under these circumstances?

But did Mercedes have time to take that decision? I think Hamilton was really, really close to pit entry when Latifi crashed.

Assuming they had pitted, Verstappen stayed out and everything else unfolds the same way: Hamilton refrains from overtaking into the first hairpin, drives round the outside at the end of the straight. Verstappen doesn't even try to make the corner, just like Brazil or SA. He goes straight, rejoins (similar to Hamilton on lap 1) and crosses the line as WDC.

The incident is not investigated, Mercedes lodges a complaint, and we fans spend the rest of our lives justifying one side or the other depending on who our favourite is.

[Secretariat]

Mercedes had 2 chances to pit under the VSC earlier

 

It was stupid not to take one of them, the Mercedes was the faster race car and I'd have put money on Lewis over taking on better rubber

 

For all the noise (rightly) about Masi, something also needs to be done about Mercs head of strategy

From a purely sporting point of view, given the circumstances....they could have put it firmly in the hands of the sportsman on track with a record breaking resume and a demonstrated advantage in the race. That would have been fun. Seems HAM was asking for it. Maybe a bit naive from me but nice to let the driver, go out and win the driver's title on his terms if he wanted it. Seems like he wanted new tires during the VSC.

[Astandahl]

Not only Masi is incompetent but his actions are totally in line with LM business model: drama.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

Mercedes caught with their pants down once again during a battle where strategy plays a major role, they were too passive and it cost them in the end with Max having soft tyres to attack Lewis.

[Clrnc]

Come on, Masi is not rigging to let Max win. He wants to create an epic finale for F1.

 

If Merc pits, Max wouldn't have. But Max with only 18 laps old hards might have held on Lewis harder. I think in that instance a crash on a ridiculous defensive maneuver would have been likely. 

[lustigson]

Although it was a conservative strategy twice over, Mercedes hardly had any choice, hadn't they? They told Lewis over the radio that in both cases it would have meant losing track position. Had Hamilton pitted during the (final) safety car, he'd have ended up behind Verstappen in 2nd, and had the race then run its full course under yellows, as it should have, we would say Mercedes should've kept Hamilton out. Given the safety car rules, the conservative strategy was the right call from the team, so I fully understand their protest.

[Ivanhoe]

Lets not forget that Masi was not planning on letting ANY cars through until Red Bull petitioned him on the radio. It was broadcast on the live feed. 

Apparently that’s a decision of the clerk of the race, whoever that is? Myrvold?   

 

If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams Competitors via the official messaging system

[DeKnyff]

Although it was a conservative strategy twice over, Mercedes hardly had any choice, hadn't they? They told Lewis over the radio that in both cases it would have meant losing track position. Had Hamilton pitted during the (final) safety car, he'd have ended up behind Verstappen in 2nd, and had the race then run its full course under yellows, as it should have, we would say Mercedes should've kept Hamilton out. Given the safety car rules, the conservative strategy was the right call from the team, so I fully understand their protest.

 

The 'safety cars rules' didn't play any rule until the last lap, there is no way Mercedes knew how many laps would the SC last. They took a gamble that the SC would go to the end. But it's not something they could have forecasted.

[ARTGP]

Lets not forget that Masi was not planning on letting ANY cars through until Red Bull petitioned him on the radio. It was broadcast on the live feed. 

 

Earlier in the race, when one of the Alfa's parked trackside, Toto told the race director "Please no safetycar" and no safetycar came. 

 

If you are suggesting that coercion was involved, then it worked both ways. 

Edited by ARTGP, 12 December 2021 - 18:55.

[Alfisti]

Mercedes absolutely did the right thing maintaining track position, simple fact is, if max was close enough he would hit Lewis, and they knew that.

[sniper80]

And Max did not hit Lewis, he won on merit. Mercedes could have pitted Hamilton for the soft tyre too, but they didn't. Big mistake by the team.

[mclarensmps]

Earlier in the race, when one of the Alfa's parked trackside, Toto told the race director "Please no safetycar" and no safetycar came. 

 

If you are suggesting that coercion was involved, then it worked both ways. 

 

I am suggesting that Masi is easily bullied by both teams. He's spineless and unfit for the role, however, RB push it way more often than Mercedes do. 

[Risil]

I think Mercedes probably could've pitted Lewis for fresh tyres earlier in the race during that VSC when Max made stop #2. Not sure if that would've been the best strategy but it would've protected against the possibility of a safety car.

 

Definitely shouldn't have pitted after Latifi's crash.

[Kev00]

Oh man people really thinking that Masi that Masi is biased in favour of Max or Red Bull. He showed on the lap 1 incident that he doesn’t take any **** off them either. He’d have restarted the race just the same if it was Max ahead or Lewis.

[DS27]

The stewards not Masi decided no investigation.

 

 

Having ex-drivers like Warwick as a steward is a whole different discussion though... he's previously shown how big a supporter he is for Lewis - how on earth is he ever going to be totally impartial.

Edited by DS27, 12 December 2021 - 19:14.

[DeKnyff]

IMO, the whole Mercedes tyre strategy was wrong from the beginning. They piited for the first time when Lewis still had excellent pace, following Verstappen, around lap 18 (don't remember exactly), which let them with 40 (long) laps to go on a single set of tyres and threw down the drain the advantage that meant starting on mediums instead of Verstappen's softs. But then, they had two golden chances, a VSC and a SC to pit for new tyres and they didn't. Consequence: they arrived to the last battle in the worse possible conditions. Yes, i understand that position is king, but in this case the strategy was too conservative at any moment.

[lustigson]

The 'safety cars rules' didn't play any rule until the last lap, there is no way Mercedes knew how many laps would the SC last. They took a gamble that the SC would go to the end. But it's not something they could have forecasted.

 

It was a gamble, certainly.

 

My guess is that it was an educated gamble by the team based on the speed with which the stewards were recovering Latifi's car.