106 replies to this topic

[Rumblestrip]

I think that that is falling for Mac making pathetic excuses for the fact they literally blamed the engine 100% and claimed they were a front row team but for that. Which was just simple nonsense. The team and driver and staff threw Honda under a bus then when it became evident that with RB they COULD do something started this bull about how Honda were even to blame for their own delusions.

 

I'm trying to remember where I saw video of the first firing up of the Honda in the McLaren. There were a few issues, which is to be expected, but zero communication between the two sides to solve it. It was toe-curling seeing everyone looking around but not interacting and maybe indicative of the teamwork issues that would come up in reports over the following years. 

[Stephane]

The Amazon doc, yeah. It was not even the first year.

[baddog]

Mac made mistakes too, but Honda admitted in the very first year that they had severely underestimated what they needed to do.

 

The first gen engine was ****. Flat out.

 

But Mac are a huge engineering concern and claiming to be one of the best racing car makers in the world, if they didnt know their own cars performance then well..

 

For balance change Mac for RBR and Honda for Renault.

 

But Renault went from winning with RB to doing nothing elsewhere so its like the reverse no?

Edited by baddog, 31 December 2021 - 01:25.

[shure]

The first gen engine was ****. Flat out.

 

But Mac are a huge engineering concern and claiming to be one of the best racing car makers in the world, if they didnt know their own cars performance then well..

 

 

But Renault went from winning with RB to doing nothing elsewhere so its like the reverse no?

They're not allowed to test, and at racing speeds there are a number of unknowns which they are only confronted with when they are actually out on track.  Merc admitted they didn't understand their car for the first half of this season, so clearly computer simulations can only do so much.  

 

The way it ended didn't reflect well on McLaren.  But I'd have to say I doubt it would have reflected well on any top team to have been put in that position.  It's easy to forget now but McLaren were F1 giants until shortly before the hybrids.  Everybody assumed 2013 was a blip and they would be back at the front with Honda, but the latter cocked it up so badly that they became a laughing stock and only Marussia prevented them from being the very last.  And the following year they struggled again, massively, and there were precious few signs that things would get better.  I think that would have tested any team, tbh, especially one that had been at the front for decades.

[baddog]

They're not allowed to test, and at racing speeds there are a number of unknowns which they are only confronted with when they are actually out on track.  Merc admitted they didn't understand their car for the first half of this season, so clearly computer simulations can only do so much.  

 

The way it ended didn't reflect well on McLaren.  But I'd have to say I doubt it would have reflected well on any top team to have been put in that position.  It's easy to forget now but McLaren were F1 giants until shortly before the hybrids.  Everybody assumed 2013 was a blip and they would be back at the front with Honda, but the latter cocked it up so badly that they became a laughing stock and only Marussia prevented them from being the very last.  And the following year they struggled again, massively, and there were precious few signs that things would get better.  I think that would have tested any team, tbh, especially one that had been at the front for decades.

 

Oh I know, and the current return to form is long overdue.. I just get a bit sick of 'poor Mac, only Honda made them look bad' when they did every possible thing to make themselves look bad too, with some truly awful car design decisions and a bull-headed refusal to do what the leaders were doing. Honda got it wrong but what was regarded once as the best technical team in F1 should have been able to tell them exactly what was wrong and work with them to fix it instead of forming war-camps and carrying on what looked like a media whisper campaign.

 

The RB story (4th in the 2nd race with TR, and 3rd in their first with RB then the amazing results since)  just makes it look like Mac were not a good development partner at all.

[JimmyTheFox]

NHK released a two part documentary in Japan, some interesting stuff from F1tech.

Honda's turbine 3D printer





2021 engine block strength increased by upto 70%



Video of Honda's rapid ignition from 2018 spec3

https://streamable.com/kc9qv0

[kumo7]

Honda seem to become more and more conservative, less adventurous, more corporate. Honda used to be a rebel by Japanese standards. Honda pulling out of F1 seems symptomatic of this gradual change.

Honda is going for the electrification, by which it is innovating.
Honda has been also a family car builder all the time, in this, it remain true to company logic.
Never the less what an awful timing to quit. It should go at least another four years and end the deal when MGU-H ends, could have said it is not anymore the challenge that it wants, and Those who want not use MGU-H is not a real engineering company. Such a statement must have made a huge publicity.

Edited by kumo7, 08 January 2022 - 22:57.