32 replies to this topic

[alg7_munif]

After the dust has settled with the protest decided, let's get some votes in.

[Jackmancer]

Over the whole season, it must have been Max who had won — Silverstone, Hungary, Baku outweigh Monza. But this race was Hamilton's and the stewards really made a bizarre decision, Hamilton didn't deserve to lose this way.

[Muzzyf1]

End of the day the unrelenting chase by Max and the awesome strategy by Red Bull and a miracle all came together to give us the most dramatic end to a race ever.

Mercedes once again stuffed up the strategy and paid the price for it.

Toto carrying on like a spoilt brat was astonishing to watch .

Roll on 2022

[PlayboyRacer]

I've avoided this forum for most of the year. The toxicity was quite something. I can imagine now it's at fever pitch given the shithousery that just occurred in the finale. To see rules bent to create a grandstand finish...after Hamilton was handing Verstappen his ass on a plate... is reality TV/WWE at it's finest.

Then when you also consider that Verstappen should have been thrown out of the previous race for brake testing, well it's just a circus at this point.

He had the best car for most of the year. And if you don't believe me when I say that, believe Adrian Newey who said it after the race on Sky Sports. Yet despite that, Max has needed this "sport" to literally turn into a farce to make him a "champion"

I'm sure he'll sleep well at night though. Just like Michael Schumacher did.

[Frank Tuesday]

A farce.

[ajcrean]

Whilst feeling a little bit sorry for Lewis and Merc, Red Bull rolled the dice on that late pitstop which won Max his Title.  Those dying minutes were the most exhilarating of the season when it dawned on us all that the two Title protagonists were going to be allowed to go hammer-and-tongs for that last lap.  It would have been gutting to see it end behind the safety car.

I get that people will be annoyed that the race was overshadowed by haphazard and inconsistent officiating, but that shouldn't detract from Max's win.  Allowing the five cars to unlap themselves was the right call, as was going green for one last lap.

[CPR]

Short answer: Masi has to go and this cannot be allowed to happen again.

 

That being the case, then I won't be overly bothered about who is ultimately declared the race winner and championship winner.

[alg7_munif]

Whilst feeling a little bit sorry for Lewis and Merc, Red Bull rolled the dice on that late pitstop which won Max his Title. Those dying minutes were the most exhilarating of the season when it dawned on us all that the two Title protagonists were going to be allowed to go hammer-and-tongs for that last lap. It would have been gutting to see it end behind the safety car.
I get that people will be annoyed that the race was overshadowed by haphazard and inconsistent officiating, but that shouldn't detract from Max's win. Allowing the five cars to unlap themselves was the right call, as was going green for one last lap.

I don't mind the race between the drivers at the end if they were on the same tyres. Not implementing the right safety car rules to rush the restart with a big tyre difference is more like race fixing to me.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Whilst feeling a little bit sorry for Lewis and Merc, Red Bull rolled the dice on that late pitstop which won Max his Title.  Those dying minutes were the most exhilarating of the season when it dawned on us all that the two Title protagonists were going to be allowed to go hammer-and-tongs for that last lap.  It would have been gutting to see it end behind the safety car.

I get that people will be annoyed that the race was overshadowed by haphazard and inconsistent officiating, but that shouldn't detract from Max's win.  Allowing the five cars to unlap themselves was the right call, as was going green for one last lap.

They didn't roll the dice either time they pitted under VSC/SC, they had precisely zero to lose and everything to gain due to being second.

[Myrvold]

What kind of poll is this?

 

Can't vote, have to vote on all question, and that 2nd one is impossible to answer with those three possible answers.

[danmills]

I am shocked Mercedes didn't pit Lewis by default. Max was never going to catch him. Lewis was capable of doing faster times at worse equal to Max when on way older tyres.

[goldenboy]

I don't think Red Bull played a blinder with strategy really, they had free pit stops and the rub of the green with a late safety car, that's all.

 

I voted Max kept the pressure, but actually, the first questions options are a bit crap. Max had a poooooor start. 

[krapmeister]

Clusterf**k

[William Hunt]

The way the championship was decided was a bad joke, a disgrace even, with Masi putting 'entertainment' above the rulebook just so tv viewers could have their final lap showdown (with Lewis a sitting duck on old tyres). This is a world championship of a major sport unworthy.

 

The race win was also undeserved, Lewis completely dominated this race, even on older tyres he was still very quick.

Edited by William Hunt, 13 December 2021 - 03:46.

[FrontWing]

New champion, plenty of Netflix material to fabricate a load of bull **** about, job done. FARCE!

[Dave Ware]

Max did not win this race.  It was handed to him.  If the lapped cars between him and Lewis had remained, and Max had passed them and then Lewis, then he would have deserved it.

 

Regardless of who you prefer and what you think about the application of the rules, this is a pathetic way to end the season and a pathetic way to decide a championship.  This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing.  There's no reason they can't do better. 

[NoDivergence]

Max did not win this race. It was handed to him. If the lapped cars between him and Lewis had remained, and Max had passed them and then Lewis, then he would have deserved it.

Regardless of who you prefer and what you think about the application of the rules, this is a pathetic way to end the season and a pathetic way to decide a championship. This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing. There's no reason they can't do better.

Not just that, Hamilton had to lap those cars on racing laps. In many respects, it would have been very fair to keep them in between, especially considering the tire situation. I'll feel robbed for years because of a dumb racing director. This sucks

[mclarensmps]

My opinion doesn't matter, only theirs does:
https://youtu.be/TSspxF0F3O0

[CHIUNDA]

A disgrace. A mockery to sport.

[Atreiu]

There is no strategy or plan which can account for race direction arbitrarily intepreting and applying the rules. It is inherently unjust, futile and wasteful. That's why, even as kids, we tried to settle on ground rules before playing whatever sports we liked in our backyards or streets. Nobody in his right mind wants to fight oponents and the rules.

 

I don't think this is about Max and Red Bull (but they sure seem to enjoy their moments 'chafurdando') but about F1 and liberty.

 

At least now we know F1 is not above manfacturing 'photo-finishes'.

Edited by Atreiu, 13 December 2021 - 04:53.

[alg7_munif]

Btw, which driver got the driver of the day votes?

[AnR]

Btw, which driver got the driver of the day votes?

 

Kimi

[CHIUNDA]

Btw, which driver got the driver of the day votes?

Kimi

[alg7_munif]

Interesting to see the majority of the votes currently think that Max won because of the improper implementation of the safety car instead of the Red Bull strategy to pit for that safety car.


Also the majority vote are saying that Max did not deserve the race win.

[AnR]

Interesting to see the majority of the votes currently think that Max won because of the improper implementation of the safety car instead of the Red Bull strategy to pit for that safety car.


Also the majority vote are saying that Max did not deserve the race win.

 

what do you expect from a mainly british site? objectivity : )

[Alex79]

What an absolute rollercoaster this Sunday has been. Honestly, Hamilton had it in the bag. Better start, quicker car, even Perez backing Lewis up did not really help that much, although I was cheering the effort.

When Lewis was pulling away again 4 tenths per lap I got a lot of Whatsapp messages from sometimes F1 following colleagues and friends who were switching off and gone of to Netflix. Max was not gonna win, not interested anymore. Well, I watch this game for 35 years now so I am not gonna switch off now.

And then something happened which I discussed with my colleague "Rusty", who is a big Schumacher fan and actually HATED it that Hamilton was going to do better. "what if Mick organises a safety car to keep the legacy of his father intact?" It did not exactly happen, but the duel between him and Latifi was the spark that blew up the powderkeg. I hear that as a race director Michael Masi has overriding authority on these matters and to be fair, he freely used both in SA ánd in Yas Marina. Mercedes did not expect Masi going into V8 Supercars mode and Hamilton did not expect to be attacked on turn 5, he took a wide line to keep the speed up. So Max did lunge, did take the lead and the championship. He got one chance handed to him and he took that chance. I was screaming with joy he Finally got a lucky break this year after all things and dying with laughter from that Very Frosty reply from Masi to that howling Wolf in the den "Toto, it's called motor racing."

Totally understand why toto is appealing, not only does he feel he's being robbed, he also feels he's being ridiculed which for Germanic people is even worse.

It was as bonkers a season if I have ever seen since Rosberg won his personal Burgerkrieg with Lewis in 2016. I absolutely loved it. Kudos to Max for coming this far since his entry for STR in Brazil 2014. Kudos also to Lewis to keep the fight going till the last. And to Toto I have a message I learned from Bernard Cornwell and his excellent Sharpe books: "curse thee sir. I curse thee by wind and water, I bury your name on the stone." That Guy really misses a stabilizing influence like Lauda was, some one to bring him back to earth after every nuclear explosion. Like I said he will appeal at CAS, maybe only the Mercedes CEO kan stop him now. That means he's screwed as the aftertaste of a (maybe) stolen champion will always linger, one way or another. And to be honest, I stopped caring since Silverstone. Lots of Battles you won, but you lost the war. So let's have a another go in 2022

Edited by Alex79, 13 December 2021 - 10:39.

[Laster]

It was a farce through and through. In the 30 years I’ve watched F1 I’ve seen drivers and teams break rules to benefit themselves, but I’ve never seen the race director so firmly wedge himself into the equation. Masi and much of the Stewards decision have ruined what should have been one of the best seasons in F1.

How can it be justified that only the drivers between Hamilton and Verstappen be allowed to pass? There are 18 other drivers on the track, Tsunoda could have had his first podium yesterday if he didn’t have to lap both Schumacher and Stroll, but apparently all other battles through the field are of no consequence, the only thing that matters is the battle between the two title contenders. Surely no matter if you’re fighting for 1st and 2nd or 19th and 20th, surely all drivers and teams should be treated the same, that’s the only way for it to be fair.

There were three options Masi could have taken, all of which would have been significantly less farcical than this.

1. Red flag the moment Latifi crashed. It would have been a 5 lap race to the finish, with everyone on softs. I have no doubt Verstappen would make another lunge to pass Hamilton on the restart and if he succeeded there would have still been four laps and DRS to give Hamilton a chance of fighting back, and if he failed it would mean there was still a fair battle for the win where everyone was on equal footing.

2. Finishing under safety car - no it wouldn’t have been an exciting end, but it’s not out of the ordinary, we’ve done it before in the past plenty of times, and with Hamilton 11 seconds out in front with 5 laps to go, it’s difficult to argue Verstappen was ever going to catch him anyway.

3. You let all the lapped cars pass under safety car, yes it may well have meant doing an extra lap under safety car, but if they succeeded in getting out the way and we were able to have that final lap of racing, at least then they could have said everyone was treated equally. Instead they just removed the cars exclusively between Hamilton and Verstappen. Of course Hamilton fans will call it rigged, and of course fans without horse in this race will be calling it a farce. What on earth did Masi expect?

In the end I actually feel it was a fitting finale for a season where Masi and the stewards have made bad call after bad call. I get it’s a tough job, but that’s not an excuse to do it with such incompetence. Masi has to go, no two ways about it. He is not fit for that position, and the FIA have to go away and have a rethink of how the Stewards handle their decision making, and what rights the race director has to dictate the race, because in the end Masi broke rules and did as he pleased.

If this is what I am to expect of future seasons in F1 where the race director so frequently inserts his will over the season, and where the stewards can be so horribly inconsistent, then for the first time I’ll genuinely have to think about whether this sport is for me, because I don’t want to watch something where everyone isn’t treated equally and fairly, and without any consistency. I don’t expect perfection but it can not go on like this.

[bananaSpanner]

End of the day the unrelenting chase by Max and the awesome strategy by Red Bull and a miracle all came together to give us the most dramatic end to a race ever.

Mercedes once again stuffed up the strategy and paid the price for it.

Toto carrying on like a spoilt brat was astonishing to watch .

Roll on 2022

There really wasn't any brilliant strategy, just the most obvious ones given the circumstances.

[absinthedude]

There really wasn't any brilliant strategy, just the most obvious ones given the circumstances.

 

Exactly....it was hardly brilliant strategy...RBR just essentially did the only thing they could try. And because of  a frankly bizarre decision by the race director not to follow the accepted rules and procedures for running an F1 race...it worked out for them. 

 

But it should not have. Brake testing aside, Max has driven a wonderful season. Championship form for sure. But in the end, he needed an incomprehensible and hitherto unthinkable decision by a top official to actually take the title. 

[Izzyeviel]

Just think of all those hours we've lost to safety cars over the year because every lapped car was allowed to catch up. Russell lost points last year at Mugello for this nonsense. Now we're being told 'actually, its just a suggestion, we don't have to do that lol'.

 

And ignoring that, why did Azerbaijan warrant a red flag but not this? It all smacks of blatant corruption. 

[cpbell]

I don't think Max won that with a vastly superior drive, even though Hamilton seemed to be unaware of the threat entering the hairpin after the restart, which I suspect is down to exhaustion (was I the only one to notice that he could barely walk after Saudi?).  I think Mercedes got their strategy wrong by not stopping under the VSC earlier-on; that being said, Masi's incompetence also indirectly and unintentionally screwed them as well.

[cpbell]

Exactly....it was hardly brilliant strategy...RBR just essentially did the only thing they could try. And because of  a frankly bizarre decision by the race director not to follow the accepted rules and procedures for running an F1 race...it worked out for them. 

 

But it should not have. Brake testing aside, Max has driven a wonderful season. Championship form for sure. But in the end, he needed an incomprehensible and hitherto unthinkable decision by a top official to actually take the title. 

Yes, Red Bull and Max won the WDC earlier in the year, not yesterday - the full back spilled the high catch, it was grabbed by the opposition right wing who ran the ball in under the posts.

[Risil]

I think we have enough threads about "what did you think about Abu Dhabi" and this one's asking nothing new.