267 replies to this topic

[Ramon69]

Checo has dug his own grave at Red Bull! Red Bull will never allow Perez to finish ahead of Max now that he is a WDC, when Lewis consistently beats both of them I am afraid he is going to be the fall guy and that will be the of his career in F1!

What makes you think he will ever be in that position?

 

His Abu Dhabi defense was excellent, very hard, but totally fair. This shouldn't even be debated. Masterclass driving which I would only expect to see from drivers like Alonso! 

[Heyli]

What if Perez will drive like this next season from race one? Sacrificing his own race(S) to only block and hold up the "rival" for 20+ races to benefit Verstappen?

I doubt that will happen, but he didnt even sacrificed his own race here. He didnt lose a position or anything. 

[baddog]

Seems to me it's more man and mule nowadays. Each title contender has someone clearly to help them out rather than to fight themselves for the title.
Wingmen aren't there to help one pilot every time, they have equal treatment and look after each other.
 

 

You are forgetting F1 rule one.

 

You are as good as your last race(s).

 

If Checo was actually faster or even fully competitive then things would change. They always do. He isn't, they wont.

[as65p]

You are forgetting F1 rule one.

 

You are as good as your last race(s).

 

If Checo was actually faster or even fully competitive then things would change. They always do. He isn't, they wont.

Yep. Perez fight is really to be close enough to be helpful, and pick up some stuff Max misses. He hasn't shown any signs so far that he can drive at Verstappens level for any length of time. May sound cruel, but it's not meant to be, is just how his first season at Red Bull went.

 

Then again, I reckon he has fully justified his seat for the time being with his AD performance alone.

 

Ironically while Bottas has been closer and even beat Hamilton a few times over the years, he hasn't been of much help to Hamilton when it mattered, i.e. this season. Well, unless we count Hungary...

[Deeq]

A better Bottas wouldn't have gone bowling in Hungary.

My point exactly..

[dannyricsshoe]

You are forgetting F1 rule one.

You are as good as your last race(s).

If Checo was actually faster or even fully competitive then things would change. They always do. He isn't, they wont.

Certainly. But you know as well as I do it's in these teams interest to make sure one driver has an advantage so it's rarely an even playing ground at the top teams.

Development. Choice of staff. Strategy all curated to help the best man win. It's not a level playing ground. Not at Red Bull anyway. And it's not just per season. Years of work goes into curating the car for one drivers strengths.

This is why so many drivers have struggled with the Red Bull in recent years. Max is no doubt a machine, but it's not solely down to him he always is ahead of his team mate.

It's this I don't like. It's not really a case of helping one another or you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. It's pure team order crap when instead teams could be giving both drivers the same treatment which would make for much better spectacles.

Edited by dannyricsshoe, 28 December 2021 - 08:07.

[baddog]

Certainly. But you know as well as I do it's in these teams interest to make sure one driver has an advantage so it's rarely an even playing ground at the top teams.

Development. Choice of staff. Strategy all curated to help the best man win. It's not a level playing ground. Not at Red Bull anyway. And it's not just per season. Years of work goes into curating the car for one drivers strengths.

This is why so many drivers have struggled with the Red Bull in recent years. Max is no doubt a machine, but it's not solely down to him he always is ahead of his team mate.

It's this I don't like. It's not really a case of helping one another or you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. It's pure team order crap when instead teams could be giving both drivers the same treatment which would make for much better spectacles.

 

Yeah but the quicker guy in teams has a long long record of showing he is quicker anyway.. and the TEAM know regardless.. and if they know the golden boy isnt actually better then he is on the skids one way or another.

Edited by baddog, 28 December 2021 - 08:10.

[DW46]

Nothing wrong with Checo’s defence. I agree with JPM though he has effectively given up on his own aspirations with this season and I think it’s safe to say he’ll be remembered in the Fisico / Irvine / Frentzen bracket for me. A decent number 2 but not the best.

Edited by DW46, 28 December 2021 - 10:16.

[jpm2019]

Nothing wrong with Checo’s defence. I agree with JPM though he has effectively given up on his own aspirations with this season and I think it’s safe to say he’ll be remembered in the Fisico / Irvine / Frentzen bracket for me. A decent number 2 but not the best.

 

maybe recency bias is playing in. But for me he is not decent. He did something fantastic at AD. But before that I think it wasn't better than Gasly and Albon. I really expect more of him. Would love to see Alonso in the seat. 

 

However his defense was just fantastic and it brought Max the WDC. 

[DW46]

maybe recency bias is playing in. But for me he is not decent. He did something fantastic at AD. But before that I think it wasn't better than Gasly and Albon. I really expect more of him. Would love to see Alonso in the seat.

However his defense was just fantastic and it brought Max the WDC.

Without Checo (and Masi tbh) Max wouldn’t have won his title so he’s definitely more impactful then many other number 2’s in history.

Would also love to see Alonso in that seat but there’s no way max would have the conjones to take on Alonso in equal cars.

[jpm2019]

Without Checo (and Masi tbh) Max wouldn’t have won his title so he’s definitely more impactful then many other number 2’s in history.

Would also love to see Alonso in that seat but there’s no way max would have the conjones to take on Alonso in equal cars.

yeah max seems like the guy who is really scared of teammates

Edited by jpm2019, 28 December 2021 - 12:16.

[DW46]

yeah max seems like the guy who is really scared of teammates

Cause he’s had so many challenging ones . . .

[jpm2019]

Cause he’s had so many challenging ones . . .

 

and you are saying it's because Max doesnt have the 'conjones' (assume you mean cojones). 

I don't even know why I am taking the bait. Count me out. 

[DW46]

and you are saying it's because Max doesnt have the 'conjones' (assume you mean cojones).

I don't even know why I am taking the bait. Count me out.

It’s not bait just an opinion, he’s had one good teammate and a few half decent ones. I’m not an anti-Max guy. Few have the cojones to take on Alonso and I wouldn’t believe any driver who claimed they’d welcome him in the second seat.

[Radion]

It’s not bait just an opinion, he’s had one good teammate and a few half decent ones. I’m not an anti-Max guy. Few have the cojones to take on Alonso and I wouldn’t believe any driver who claimed they’d welcome him in the second seat.

Looking at the performance difference between Alonso and ocon, I think it's safe to assume Max would very much welcome Alonso as his number two.

Let's face it, max is the fastest driver out right now. Even if Lewis had the same rubber as Max in the last lap in AD, I'm certain the latter would have passed Lewis (like in the first lap). Hamilton, and nobody else for that matter, have an answer for that kind of aggressive style of driving (evident by just how much room Lewis leaves all the time because he doesn't expect Max to strike but the latter does, somehow).

[DW46]

Looking at the performance difference between Alonso and ocon, I think it's safe to assume Max would very much welcome Alonso as his number two.

Let's face it, max is the fastest driver out right now. Even if Lewis had the same rubber as Max in the last lap in AD, I'm certain the latter would have passed Lewis (like in the first lap). Hamilton, and nobody else for that matter, have an answer for that kind of aggressive style of driving (evident by just how much room Lewis leaves all the time because he doesn't expect Max to strike but the latter does, somehow).

Aye I remember folk saying the same about Michael and Kimi back in the early 00’s. after a few decades you cease to be surprised at all those who sparkle in a Newey rocket ship. I heard the same things about Villeneuve, Kimi, Vettel even Danny Ric at one point.

For me Max is clear top three with Ham and Alo after that it’s all about Charles, George and Lando.

[HeadFirst]

Looking at the performance difference between Alonso and ocon, I think it's safe to assume Max would very much welcome Alonso as his number two.

Let's face it, max is the fastest driver out right now. Even if Lewis had the same rubber as Max in the last lap in AD, I'm certain the latter would have passed Lewis (like in the first lap). Hamilton, and nobody else for that matter, have an answer for that kind of aggressive style of driving (evident by just how much room Lewis leaves all the time because he doesn't expect Max to strike but the latter does, somehow).

 

By "aggressive style of driving", I assume you mean the style that has no limitations like track limits, or hitting your opponent. It's the kind of "aggressive style of driving' that has other drivers veering off track (not just leaving room) to avoid being taken out of the race. It the "aggressive style of driving" that assumes that you and you alone, has the right to any piece of track you choose, and that any measure needed to take it is justified. Even that "aggressive style of driving" would have been useless to Max, had the race director not set the table for Max in AD. 

 

Having said that I agree that Max would not object to Alonso, or anyone else as team-mate. It's not that Max fears the challenge, it's Red Bull that doesn't want to deal with it,. And I don't blame them.

Edited by HeadFirst, 28 December 2021 - 20:58.

[baddog]

Without Checo (and Masi tbh) Max wouldn’t have won his title so he’s definitely more impactful then many other number 2’s in history.

Yeah but if he had been up front stealing points from the Mercs and sometimes even Lewis then it wouldnt have come to that AND they would have the WCC.