73 replies to this topic

[Anderis]

Without checking, who won the WCC in 2006 and 2009?

I actually remember pretty easily without checking who won the WCC each year in the 21st century. It was always the WDC's team except for 2008 (Ferrari) and 2021 (Mercedes).
 

[LittleChris]

Drivers ? Lightbulbs aren't they as Patrick Head would say

[AlexPrime]

I actually remember pretty easily without checking who won the WCC each year in the 21st century. It was always the WDC's team except for 2008 (Ferrari) and 2021 (Mercedes).
 

Interesting that both time situation is contested, but there is no surprise that VES and HAM won in years in which their teams did not.

[IrvTheSwerve]

I actually remember pretty easily without checking who won the WCC each year in the 21st century. It was always the WDC's team except for 2008 (Ferrari) and 2021 (Mercedes).
 

You kinda proved the point there.

[Clatter]

It seems I am a minority..But imnho winning WCC is far more valuable than winning WDC, if you win the first you are the best Team i.e. the raison de atre of racing, get more money better pit position etc.
WDC is an individual trophy ffs, not a team trophy.

 

I suspect the WDC has more marketing potential, but no idea what the actual figures are.

[Grippy]

I don't know nowadays, but the WCC was always important for teams that made road cars as it was a good 'tick' for advertising.

I can't find my Renault cap but found a pic on ebay

 

RenaultF1 Five Times World Champion 92.93.94.95.96

 

so they were using their engine supply in the WCC in advertising.

 

I don't see a lot of adverts now but do Mercedes claim 12 or 13 championships? Ferrari 16 or 15?

[noikeee]

You kinda proved the point there.

Yeah we remember the constructors as a function of the drivers champion and not the other way around.

[arrysen]

The question asked in this thread is not what fans remember or care most about between WDC and WCC, it is what the teams care most about.

 

Whilst accepting that it was a while ago now, when I worked in F1 the WCC was definitely what the teams cared about the most - by far. For sure you'd like to get one of your drivers over the line as WDC but the WCC was what everyone on the team really cared about and took the most pride in. FYI I worked for Brabham and Williams over the time I was there.

 

Now, it's quite possible that times have changed & I accept that but there are people I know in a number of senior team positions and their view is the same as back then. 

 

Perhaps it does vary from team to team, as someone further up in the posts suggests but that's my 2c worth.

[Anuity]

I think it’s probable that within teams people congratulate each other, make some celebrations and maybe even receive some bonuses?

 

does it really matter so much to teams overall? maybe it does. But it certainly is not what they transmit to the public: Williamms in 1994, Ferrari in 1999, Ferrari in 2008, Mercedes in 2021. I don’t remember any of those teams really celebrating clinching constructors title. Doesn’t mean they don’t care about it, but they definitely didn’t go into last races having it as their main objective.

 

now I’m sure that McLaren would celebrate it nowadays, perhaps because it’s been too long, and it would be the first one for Zak.

Edited by Anuity, 07 September 2024 - 17:36.

[Ben24]

McLaren would swap their WCC (which looks to be in the bag) for a Norris WDC in an instant. What do you reckon?

Depends how you define "Mclaren". If you mean the people at the top of the team or its shareholders who care about the team's overall revenue and profitability then no doubt they would rather win the WDC. But if you're talking about the standard factory worker, whose bonus (which is determined by their WCC position) makes up a large percentage of their overall salary, then I think the majority would prefer to win the WCC. I don't think the extra sponsorship and media attention the team receives receives from winning the WDC really makes any difference at all to these people.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't know nowadays, but the WCC was always important for teams that made road cars as it was a good 'tick' for advertising.

I can't find my Renault cap but found a pic on ebay

 

RenaultF1 Five Times World Champion 92.93.94.95.96

 

so they were using their engine supply in the WCC in advertising.

 

I don't see a lot of adverts now but do Mercedes claim 12 or 13 championships? Ferrari 16 or 15?

I suspect they might have used the drivers’ title if Williams hadn’t won the constructors’ in 1994, or Damon had won the drivers’. It just meant they had one more and an unbroken run to celebrate.

[Brawn BGP 001]

McLaren would take any title its been too long for them.

[PlatenGlass]

There's no championship for engines so the Renault hat is false advertising.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 13 September 2024 - 18:47.

[PayasYouRace]

There's no championship for engines so the Renault hat is false advertising.

Actually the championship is for constructors, which is the combination of chassis and engine. So it isn’t false advertising. Renault did win those championships, in combination with their chassis partners.

[PlatenGlass]

The official winning constructor wasn't Renault though.

Edit - In the same way e.g. Goodyear haven't won any constructors championships.

Edit 2 - I suppose actually it was Williams-Renault and when e.g Brabham had different engines in 1982 it seems they had different positions in the championship. So maybe don't burn all the hats just yet.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 13 September 2024 - 21:14.

[PayasYouRace]

The official winning constructor wasn't Renault though.

Edit - In the same way e.g. Goodyear haven't won any constructors championships.

A tyre supplier isn’t part of the constructor. The engine provider is. Renault have every right to claim those championships.

[PlatenGlass]

A tyre supplier isn’t part of the constructor. The engine provider is. Renault have every right to claim those championships.

OK. See my most recent edit.

[PayasYouRace]

OK. See my most recent edit.

Well I was about to edit to say that by the logic you were applying, McLaren, Williams, Lotus, Brabham et al couldn’t claim any constructors’ championships either, because they were all in partnerships with engine suppliers.

[lamo]

I always found the naming of the constructors championships very odd. 

 

1) WDC -Individual drivers championship

2) WDC - Driver pair championship

 

Why is it called the constructors championship? The team construct the car for both championships. The "constructors" is just driver 1 + driver 2, it is as simple as that.

[PayasYouRace]

I always found the naming of the constructors championships very odd. 

 

1) WDC -Individual drivers championship

2) WDC - Driver pair championship

 

Why is it called the constructors championship? The team construct the car for both championships. The "constructors" is just driver 1 + driver 2, it is as simple as that.

Because it’s not the championship for the driver pair in any way, shape or form. It’s the championship for the people who build the cars. It’s why any driver changes during the season don’t affect who scores points for that constructor. In the past it’s also why different teams could score for the constructor or how the same team could score for different constructors. Even further in the past, it was only the best placed car for each constructor that would score points.

 

The team don’t construct the car for the drivers championship either. It’s why when a driver swaps teams mid-season, he keeps his points with him.

[Bleu]

Especially in the early 1980s when teams swapped engine manufacturers during the season there might be some confusion with WCC standings. That is when turbo engines made their breakthrough.

 

1982 standings have Brabham-BMW 7th with 22 points and Brabham-Ford in 9th with 19 points. Combined effort would put them 5th.

 

1983 had Williams-Ford in 4th and Williams-Honda in 11th. McLaren also changed engines mid-season but no points were scored by TAG-Porsche powered cars.

[arrysen]

Mr Kravitz spent a couple of minutes talking about this very thing (in relation to McLaren) in his post-race "notebook" from Baku on Sky. Maybe Ted was reading this thread?

 

Anyway, short version is that the teams (not just some team employees) DO really care about the Constructors Championship way more than the Drivers Championship - so hasn't changed since back in my day.

 

He elaborated somewhat but primarily about pit lane position for the year, motorhome position etc. - which are things that do very much matter to teams, a lot.

 

Anyway, for what it's worth, this question had some coverage from Ted on Sunday.

 

You can check it out at 6:47 in this YouTube repeat of the Baku Sunday notebook.

Edited by arrysen, 16 September 2024 - 05:58.

[PayasYouRace]

Especially in the early 1980s when teams swapped engine manufacturers during the season there might be some confusion with WCC standings. That is when turbo engines made their breakthrough.

1982 standings have Brabham-BMW 7th with 22 points and Brabham-Ford in 9th with 19 points. Combined effort would put them 5th.

1983 had Williams-Ford in 4th and Williams-Honda in 11th. McLaren also changed engines mid-season but no points were scored by TAG-Porsche powered cars.

I guess the confusion comes from younger fans who think it’s a teams’ championship.

[RedRabbit]

Mr Kravitz spent a couple of minutes talking about this very thing (in relation to McLaren) in his post-race "notebook" from Baku on Sky. Maybe Ted was reading this thread?

Anyway, short version is that the teams (not just some team employees) DO really care about the Constructors Championship way more than the Drivers Championship - so hasn't changed since back in my day.

He elaborated somewhat but primarily about pit lane position for the year, motorhome position etc. - which are things that do very much matter to teams, a lot.

Anyway, for what it's worth, this question had some coverage from Ted on Sunday.

You can check it out at 6:47 in this YouTube repeat of the Baku Sunday notebook.

Thanks, yes. The constructors championship is definitely more important for the teams, but because the drivers championship is firstly, older, and then, has the human element attached to it, we fans celebrate it more.