872 replies to this topic

[Wolbo]

Get back to me when Max is gunning for #7 and remember Sir Lewis will be at #9 or #10 by then.

As it stands now Max is one yield or crash move away from taking Schumacher's dirtiest driver title.

Good "argument".

 

[JeePee]

That wasn’t wheel to wheel racing, that was someone passing a car that was 4sec/lap slower.   He passed him and pulled a 2.5sec gap in 1 lap. 

Lewis didn't accelerate out of the final corner, hence the 2,5s gap.

 

Max had the faster car for most of the year, RB dominated rear-limited circuits.

You don’t lead the most laps in a season without having the fastest car. 

Stats never tell the whole story. Max led a big portion of laps in Barcelona, Brazil, Saudi, where his car was definitely not the fastest. Tracks where he was quick had 70+ laps in them (Monaco, Zandvoort, Mexico).

When Lewis had the fastest car he didn't get that many leading laps in: Brazil, Sochi, Turkey, Silverstone and Hungary.

[Squeed]

Lewis didn't accelerate out of the final corner, hence the 2,5s gap.

 

Stats never tell the whole story. Max led a big portion of laps in Barcelona, Brazil, Saudi, where his car was definitely not the fastest. Tracks where he was quick had 70+ laps in them (Monaco, Zandvoort, Mexico).

When Lewis had the fastest car he didn't get that many leading laps in: Brazil, Sochi, Turkey, Silverstone and Hungary.

Please.  He led more laps than the rest of the field combined.  Nobody has ever been good enough, and nobody ever will be good enough, to accomplish that without having the fastest car. 

[Requiem84]

Please.  He led more laps than the rest of the field combined.  Nobody has ever been good enough, and nobody ever will be good enough, to accomplish that without having the fastest car.

I’ll bite: on which tracks was the RB the best car this year?

[Squeed]

I’ll bite: on which tracks was the RB the best car this year?

There’s another thread where that conversation has already taken place, then repeated x100.

[Ultrav87]

I agree.  He was also gifted points in 2 races this season, but that’s neither here nor there.  My criticism was about the alleged objectivity of the ranking system that was shared. 

 

Spa: Hamilton should have outqualified a Williams and Max and he would have been the one getting the points. 

 

Abu Dhabi: Masi had a mare but Max had to make the move and seeing Hamilton closing speed on the straights, it was the right decision to make it at T5. Sure Max had the tyre advantage but that's racing and when it came down to it, Max made the move when he needed to, otherwise we could be talking about how Hamiton is GOAT for keeping him behind on the straights and winning the WDC. (Again, I acknowledge the supreme advantage Max had, but he could have messed it up, he didn't and therefore deserves the praise and not any negativity. Nothing in those 5 last laps was his fault.)

Edited by Ultrav87, 22 December 2021 - 19:24.

[Requiem84]

There’s another thread where that conversation has already taken place, then repeated x100.

Funny that you refer to that thread, but ignore the conclusion of that thread: the cars were about equal this year.

[GentlemanDriver091]

They are just reminding themselves, as half of their own posts in this topic have referenced H******n.

They? I can’t remember I referenced any other person then Max?

Edited by GentlemanDriver091, 22 December 2021 - 19:19.

[Ultrav87]

Keep in mind he was bested in the last race by the master Hamilton and needed a rules breach to gift him the win. So in the real world he is not even a one time winner yet!

 

The master Hamilton that needed a specially built engine that only he got to win against Max and RB.

 

Don't even say that is not the case looking at the increase in race pace in Brazil, Jeddah and Abu Dhabi in regards to the stretch between Silverstone to Mexico

 

That engine was 100% bonkers and could only last three races. Same top speed but enough downforce to make the car an alien on it's tyres.

 

He was exceptional in Qatar and is an exceptional driver but so is Max.

 

The fact that Mercedes got away with putting in multilpe engines in Bottas's car and Hamilton's without damage to the WDC and WCC says enough about how good the FIA engine penalties are at the moment.

 

Honda made an exceptional engine that would have done the 3 over the 22 race season. That is what people should be talking about. 

[Ultrav87]

Please.  He led more laps than the rest of the field combined.  Nobody has ever been good enough, and nobody ever will be good enough, to accomplish that without having the fastest car. 

 

Just a gentle reminder that if you had two drivers of Perez's quality in that RB, Ham would have won the WDC by a mile and Bottas would have come P2 and it would have been the same domination we saw in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019 and 2020.

 

It was the fastest car in Max's hands as seen by the stats vs his teammate.

[P123]

I’ll bite: on which tracks was the RB the best car this year?

 

A quick glance gives me 10/22 tracks (I ignored Spa) although some either side were 50/50 and strategy/ tyre dependant.  Some present it as if it were Alonso 2012, and throw out the "in a slower car" phrase (albeit I suspect that is merely to bait others)   Max won in all but two of those (Bahrain, Baku), and maximised when his car was not the best by taking a stream of seconds, and of course victory in the final race.  That may not all be down to pure driving by either party (as it really was the Max/ Lewis show), as Baku was a tyre blowout, Turkey Hamilton was removed as a threat, etc.  But I think it shows why Max was the driver of the season for most.

[EightGear]

Get back to me when Max is gunning for #7 and remember Sir Lewis will be at #9 or #10 by then.
As it stands now Max is one yield or crash move away from taking Schumacher's dirtiest driver title.

Overreacting much?

[P123]

Just a gentle reminder that if you had two drivers of Perez's quality in that RB, Ham would have won the WDC by a mile and Bottas would have come P2 and it would have been the same domination we saw in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019 and 2020.

 

It was the fastest car in Max's hands as seen by the stats vs his teammate.

 

I don't think that is true at all.  Maybe two drivers performing as patchily as Perez, but a team rarely has that from both drivers. You may as well say if Merc had two Bottas's Max would have won 17 or 18 races.  But would either perform as badly once out of the spotlight or MAx or Lewis, and the attention that then falls on them?  Incidentally, Newey teams seem for some reason to have quite a history of one driver flying along, and another struggling far behind.  Whether that be Patrese to Mansell, Frentzen to Villeneuve, Montoya to Raikkonen, Webber to Vettel or Perez to Verstappen.  There are differing reasons, but the gaps do stand out compared to other partnerships.

[Ultrav87]

I don't think that is true at all.  Maybe two drivers performing as patchily as Perez, but a team rarely has that from both drivers. You may as well say if Merc had two Bottas's Max would have won 17 or 18 races.  But would either perform as badly once out of the spotlight or MAx or Lewis, and the attention that then falls on them?  Incidentally, Newey teams seem for some reason to have quite a history of one driver flying along, and another struggling far behind.  Whether that be Patrese to Mansell, Frentzen to Villeneuve, Montoya to Raikkonen, Webber to Vettel or Perez to Verstappen.  There are differing reasons, but the gaps do stand out compared to other partnerships.

 

That's the quality of Max and Lewis though. They make the difference when the car is not the best.

 

When a car is great/balanced, good drivers are able to be closer to great drivers like Max and Lewis, when the car is not great, the gap is a lot wider.

[SlateGray]

Overreacting much?

 

Not at all.

If the dirty driver label sticks to Max, as it will if he keeps on the way he is now, then it will not matter how much winning he does his reputation will always come with an *

I should say a second * as there is already one present to denote the gifted win for the WDC clincher.

[Cliff]

Not at all.
If the dirty driver label sticks to Max, as it will if he keeps on the way he is now, then it will not matter how much winning he does his reputation will always come with an *
I should say a second * as there is already one present to denote the gifted win for the WDC clincher.

By that logic Lewis already has 7 * winning against subpar opposition in a car that was often 1 second a lap quicker than any other car. Stupid arguments, make stupid points mate..

[Cliff]

I think this thread has run It’s course?

[SlateGray]

By that logic Lewis already has 7 * winning against subpar opposition in a car that was often 1 second a lap quicker than any other car. Stupid arguments, make stupid points mate..

Lewis has never been called dirty and never uses the yield or crash tactics employed by Max.

Max needs to clean up his act soon and win at least six or more WDC's if he wants to be considered in the same breath as Sir Lewis.

[Requiem84]

A shame the thread is derailed. I thought it was an interesting discussion.

[EightGear]

Yep, better close it. The tears are still on supply and haven't run dry yet.

[alframsey]

Yep, better close it. The tears are still on supply and haven't run dry yet.

Both sets of fans have been scraping the bottom of the barrel these past few weeks, including myself initially after the race, but you'd like to think emotions settle and people get a bit more sensible.

 

Thread needs closing, as do a few others

[Wolbo]

Not at all.

If the dirty driver label sticks to Max, as it will if he keeps on the way he is now, then it will not matter how much winning he does his reputation will always come with an *

I should say a second * as there is already one present to denote the gifted win for the WDC clincher.

Haters gonna hate.

[Ivanhoe]

Yeah, thread has run its course. Sad to see it’s been hijacked by some ‘extremists’