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2021 ABU DHABI F1 TEST : The Mule vs 21 Car


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#1 RA2

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 03:47

The post-season will feature all 10 teams, with nine running their specially-adapted mule cars for the 2022 18-inch wheelrim tyre testing programme on both days. All teams, including Williams, will run on one day with their 2021 car for what are designated as young drivers, defined as those who have started no more than two world championship races.

 

iFBqqIg.jpg

 

 

With both tires on track will the 18 inch tyre be faster?  

 

 

Another big moment is Pato O driving a F1 Mclaren

 

oward-asiento-mclaren-f1-soymotor.jpg


Edited by RA2, 14 December 2021 - 03:57.


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#2 ARTGP

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 03:50

Is Pirelli bringing the C3-C5 compound for the 18" wheel? Will any of the compounds be marked?

 

Here's James Allison in 2018 saying the 18" wheels would make the cars 2 seconds slower: https://www.racefans...slower-allison/


Edited by ARTGP, 14 December 2021 - 03:52.


#3 Alfisti

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 04:11

The 13s were too small but 18s look stupid, why such a big jump? The answer was always 15s.

#4 RA2

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 04:31

The 13s were too small but 18s look stupid, why such a big jump? The answer was always 15s.

 

 

Does not look so bad

s3bHgCX.jpg



#5 jonpollak

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 04:45

What’s the dates for this please.
Jp

#6 jstrains

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 05:52

JP today and tomorrow, here is the official Pirelli leaflet:

https://pbs.twimg.co...pg&name=900x900

 

I hope the drivers will be already sober  :rotfl:

 

Is there any livestream planned from the testing? I cannot wait to see some in their new outift. Thanks.


Edited by jstrains, 14 December 2021 - 05:55.


#7 owenmahamilton

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 06:13

I thought drivers who are changing teams usually did not start driving for their new teams until the start of the next year so I'm a little surprised that George Russell is driving for Mercedes, I've got nothing against it all I just thought that is how things were.



#8 ARTGP

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 06:18

I thought drivers who are changing teams usually did not start driving for their new teams until the start of the next year so I'm a little surprised that George Russell is driving for Mercedes, I've got nothing against it all I just thought that is how things were.

 

Typically, teams/drivers that don't have any competing interest will release the driver from his contract (which would traditionally end at end of year), in order to allow the departing driver to test with his new team at the end of the year.

 

In other words, Bottas is going to Alfa early, because Mercedes agreed to release him. Likewise for Russell.


Edited by ARTGP, 14 December 2021 - 06:19.


#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 07:19

I thought drivers who are changing teams usually did not start driving for their new teams until the start of the next year so I'm a little surprised that George Russell is driving for Mercedes, I've got nothing against it all I just thought that is how things were.

 

What ARTGP said, though in the case of George Russell, he's a Mercedes junior and has been testing (and even racing) for Mercedes regularly in the past three years.



#10 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 08:23

Russell is Merc property.



#11 Burai

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:26

The 13s were too small but 18s look stupid, why such a big jump? The answer was always 15s.

 

Probably because no manufacturer currently or likely to be involved in F1 sells a car with a 15" wheel option.

 

It'll look awkward to start with, but we'll get used to it. I can't say I notice it on the F2 cars any more.



#12 Dhillon

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:31

Why are they changing the tyre size ?

#13 krapmeister

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:34

The 13s were too small but 18s look stupid, why such a big jump? The answer was always 15s.


15s are too small, even on a Clio :p

16s though are just right 👍

#14 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:55

Why are they changing the tyre size ?

 

To get rid of the last machine that makes 13" rims. ;)



#15 Dhillon

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:55

15s are too small, even on a Clio :p

16s though are just right 👍


lol, Whatever they’re hoping to achieve , will fail.

#16 BRG

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 09:57

The 13s were too small but 18s look stupid, why such a big jump? The answer was always 15s.

Because it is nearly 2022.  Even my Mini road car runs on 17 inch wheels.  F1 has been in the Stone Age, sticking to 13 inch wheels for so long.  

 

Question:  Are Formula One fans the most conservative people in the world?  Discuss.



#17 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:15

Because it is nearly 2022.  Even my Mini road car runs on 17 inch wheels.  F1 has been in the Stone Age, sticking to 13 inch wheels for so long.  

 

Question:  Are Formula One fans the most conservative people in the world?  Discuss.

Except if you read the link ARTGP posted, it's clear that from a pure performance metric (which in theory is the DNA of F1) the switch to 17 inch wheels is a retrograde step. Road cars have switched for a mix of aesthetics and economics, neither of which are key fundamentals for F1. F1 is now switching, not because they're better tyres, but because of the Race-on-Sunday-Sell-on-Monday benefits.


Edited by MrAerodynamicist, 14 December 2021 - 10:16.


#18 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:27

sc6xgjyaw24e_wd640.jpg

 

bpdx56paerbq_wd640.jpg



#19 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:30

Sounds like O'Ward likes the car....

 

https://twitter.com/...667073521135621



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#20 Frood

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:30

Wheels look fine to me. I think watching F2 for the past couple of years has helped.

#21 TomNokoe

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:32

Just another feature in F1's supersizing. Not for me.

#22 Clatter

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:33

Because it is nearly 2022.  Even my Mini road car runs on 17 inch wheels.  F1 has been in the Stone Age, sticking to 13 inch wheels for so long.  

 

Question:  Are Formula One fans the most conservative people in the world?  Discuss.

 


So it's the old road relevance excuse? Why does an F1 car need to have the same tyre diameter as a road car? There is zero correlation between the 2.

#23 BRG

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:37

Except if you read the link ARTGP posted, it's clear that from a pure performance metric (which in theory is the DNA of F1) the switch to 17 inch wheels is a retrograde step. 

 

Really?  Then why is F1 the only race series still using tiny wheels?  In free race series they use larger wheels by choice.  LMP1 cars were on 20+ wheels, aren't they?

 

Not buying it.  F1 is just ultra conservative.  No way is a tiny wheel with a huge flabby high profile tyre the best option in the 21st century.

 

So it's the old road relevance excuse? Why does an F1 car need to have the same tyre diameter as a road car? There is zero correlation between the 2.

Nothing to do with road relevance.  It is just outdated technology and the so-called pinnacle of the sport  is only now finally dragging itself into this century.



#24 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:37

Russell is Merc property.


He’s not a bloody slave.

#25 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:39

Because it is nearly 2022.  Even my Mini road car runs on 17 inch wheels.  F1 has been in the Stone Age, sticking to 13 inch wheels for so long.  

 

Question:  Are Formula One fans the most conservative people in the world?  Discuss.

 

F1 lives in the past. It took until 2011 to broadcast in HD (except Japanese GPs, they had MUSE/HiVision since the early 90s).



#26 Scaboo22

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:42

Love how the tires look! Is the test broadcast anywhere?



#27 Spillage

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:43

The new tyres make then look more like F2 cars somehow. They look alright, will take a but of getting used to.

#28 krapmeister

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:43

So it's the old road relevance excuse? Why does an F1 car need to have the same tyre diameter as a road car? There is zero correlation between the 2.

 

Probably less to do with the rim diameter as such, but more the reduced size of the sidewalls. And as BRG says, pretty much almost every other racing series have gone down the lower sidewall tyre route.

 

Ultimately though, less offensive than the halo - and we have just about forgotten all about how bad those things look now...



#29 Anja

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:43

The big wheels look fine but it's a weird decision if they're really so much slower. So what if the 13s are "outdated" if they're faster? New isn't always better.



#30 krapmeister

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:46

The big wheels look fine but it's a weird decision if they're really so much slower. So what if the 13s are "outdated" if they're faster? New isn't always better.

 

They are only slower because the teams haven't got the experience with them. Once they get more experience/data and optimise the setup/suspension to better suit, then I am sure they will be as fast or faster than the old 13" wheels...



#31 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:46

The tyre wall will evidently be smaller with these 18" rims, which will affect handling, aero etc. but I'm wondering if it will also affect structural solidity and make tyre failure more or less likely? 



#32 BRG

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:52

The tyre wall will evidently be smaller with these 18" rims, which will affect handling, aero etc. but I'm wondering if it will also affect structural solidity and make tyre failure more or less likely? 

I would have thought that shorter, more rigid tyre walls ought to be more resilient and less vulnerable to kerbs.  Slo-mo of the current tyres shows a lot of deflection over kerbs which should be reduced with the new tyres.

 

As for relative speeds, we will never know as Pirelli's compounds vary so much. 



#33 peroa

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:55

16” would’ve been the perfect compromise.

#34 Ivanhoe

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:55

Looks hideous with the wheel covers for me.

FGjes-HXw-AY12f-Y.jpg



#35 Clatter

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 10:57

Really?  Then why is F1 the only race series still using tiny wheels?  In free race series they use larger wheels by choice.  LMP1 cars were on 20+ wheels, aren't they?

 

Not buying it.  F1 is just ultra conservative.  No way is a tiny wheel with a huge flabby high profile tyre the best option in the 21st century.

 

Nothing to do with road relevance.  It is just outdated technology and the so-called pinnacle of the sport  is only now finally dragging itself into this century.

 


Well comparison to road tyres was cited by you previously. F1 has generally been about performance, and from what I've read the new tyres will be slower. So if they are not changing for performance, what is actually outdated about the current tyres?

Edited by Clatter, 14 December 2021 - 10:58.


#36 TennisUK

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:02

Looks hideous with the wheel covers for me.

FGjes-HXw-AY12f-Y.jpg

Within a few races it will look fine, always the way.

 

(except 2009 wing rules, and the 'banana' noses if a few years later).



#37 Peat

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:07

Within a few races it will look fine, always the way.

 

(except 2009 wing rules, and the 'banana' noses if a few years later).

 

Someone in the Sky comms said something about this at the weekend, how the 2009 spec cars were so ugly to start with but we all got used to it by the first race. 

Errr, no. That early 2009 BMW and Renault still haunt my dreams. 



#38 Deeq

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:07

To get rid of the last machine that makes 13" rims. ;)

😂👌

#39 krapmeister

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:07

Well comparison to road tyres was cited by you previously. F1 has generally been about performance, and from what I've read the new tyres will be slower. So if they are not changing for performance, what is actually outdated about the current tyres?

 

 

 

Chatting to Pirelli today, the simulations given to them by the teams so far suggest we could see 2022 cars within half a second of the current cars at the start of the year, and quicker by the end. Originally were expected to be 2-3 seconds slower

 

https://twitter.com/...6920360966?s=20



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#40 Anderis

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:08

 

iFBqqIg.jpg

 

What a weird situation with Shwartzman. So he will basically run half a day with Ferrari and then half a day with Haas, meaning Haas will only run for half a day? Couldn't Haas sell the other half to a random paydriver?

Or is it just a provisional list and Haas will run a 2nd driver that day?
 



#41 peroa

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:08

So the tyres will be oberwhelmed with performance again.

#42 Garagista

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:11

Looks hideous with the wheel covers for me.

FGjes-HXw-AY12f-Y.jpg

NGL "Kinda like it"... just needs to be golden rims and a black rear wing and we have a there a beautiful car :D



#43 BRG

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:16

16” would’ve been the perfect compromise.

Why compromise?  Go for the best option, not the compromise option.

 

Well comparison to road tyres was cited by you previously. F1 has generally been about performance, and from what I've read the new tyres will be slower. So if they are not changing for performance, what is actually outdated about the current tyres?

The road car comment was just to show how out of touch F1 is to the real world.  The reason for the change is that low-profile tyres are simply BETTER.  And they need larger rims to accommodate them.  They could have gone for low-profile 13" tyres, but that would  have looked really silly!



#44 statman

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:38

an7t7580.jpg

2000_20190907hgp_hf3_xt3-1290.jpg

 

:blush:



#45 PayasYouRace

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:38

Why compromise? Go for the best option, not the compromise option.

The road car comment was just to show how out of touch F1 is to the real world. The reason for the change is that low-profile tyres are simply BETTER. And they need larger rims to accommodate them. They could have gone for low-profile 13" tyres, but that would have looked really silly!


What Allison says in the quoted article isn’t that the 13” rims are better, but the suspension properties of the high profile tyres are.

#46 SenorSjon

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:46

Because it is nearly 2022.  Even my Mini road car runs on 17 inch wheels.  F1 has been in the Stone Age, sticking to 13 inch wheels for so long.  

 

Question:  Are Formula One fans the most conservative people in the world?  Discuss.

 

I'll get my paper and quill. Hang on while I post it.

 

Wheels look fine to me. I think watching F2 for the past couple of years has helped.

 

I never understood the hatred towards the big rims. they tested them years ago and they looked fine to me.

 

He’s not a bloody slave.

 

With the contracts juniors sign, I'm not that sure. ;) They aren't free either. :p

 

Looks hideous with the wheel covers for me.

FGjes-HXw-AY12f-Y.jpg

 

We had those wheel covers 20 years ago and they were banned in the end. Why their return?!



#47 Peat

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:53

 

 

We had those wheel covers 20 years ago and they were banned in the end. Why their return?!

 

They are thought to reduce dirty air. 



#48 Scaboo22

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 12:11

I guarantee the covers will look better next year and people will get used to them



#49 Clatter

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 12:13

 


Thats compared with he current car/tyre. If they didn't change the tyres I would expect the lap times to come down over the season anyway. Still doesn't seem that the change is for performance reasons.

#50 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 12:16

They are thought to reduce dirty air. 

Until the teams figure out how to use them to generate downforce... why did they get banned in the first place? I can not recall...