847 replies to this topic

[Tenmantaylor]

No he wasn't. Although he does think so and taking it like a (stat)man, has harped on about it ever since.

If it happened in the last race it really would have felt that way.

Which highlights how last weekend felt to a lot of people.

[scheivlak]

Massa was really robbed in 2008 when Piquet "fixed" that race

PIquet supervised the Ferrari pistops?

[glenncondor]

I guess this is an opportunity to look tough.  And ironic for an FIA official to be throwing out the line that "rules are rules". 

 

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

[Myrvold]

PIquet supervised the Ferrari pistops?

He did fix the race.

[AlexPrime]

Have you read his book? I'm more convinced that the peripheral stuff to driving a car genuinely frustrates him and that he's just one of those people who could be happy in a silent Finnish forest. A few days on this forum gave me his kind of misanthropy, certainly.

True I have decided to limit my time in certain threads to protect my sanity.

[scheivlak]

He did fix the race.

If Massa had a decent pitstop he would have stayed ahead of Hamilton. And would have won the WDC.

 

Apart from that it wasn't Piquet who fixed the race. He only followed orders under high presure.

[mcjohnson]

I'm no Lewis fan, far from it and I am firmly team Max but I wouldn't have gone to the gala either. And I would tell them to stuff their fine up their ass.

I hope the method of payment for the fine isn’t defined, and Mercedes send both Toto’s and Lewis’s payments direct to the FIA office in the form of 1cent coins…

[Stephane]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

 

F1 survived without Mercedes before. A return to more private teams would be welcomed by a lot of people.

 

Liberty would not like the idea, i'll give you that

[ClubmanGT]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

 

Imagine it? I dream of it. It seems everyone hated one team dominating when it was Schumacher. Gosh, I wonder what changed.

 

Frankly, teams who want to hold a knife to the throat of the sport to lock in their own dominance should sod off.

[loki]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

 

There is too much invested to just bail.  They'd sell.  I expect that to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

F1 survived without Mercedes before. A return to more private teams would be welcomed by a lot of people.

 

Liberty would not like the idea, i'll give you that

 

I doubt Liberty would care one way or the other.  The money is in race promotion and TV deals neither one of which would be impacted greatly if they bowed out.

[FLB]

There is too much invested to just bail.  They'd sell.  I expect that to happen sooner or later anyway.

 

 

That is certain, especially considering how much money must already have been spent towards the new rules. It needs to pay off.

 

I doubt Liberty would care one way or the other.  The money is in race promotion and TV deals neither one of which would be impacted greatly if they bowed ou

 

Well, I'm not sure Liberty would like to lose an engine manufacturer that currently supplies 40% of the grid...

Edited by FLB, 19 December 2021 - 01:49.

[AlexPrime]

That is certain, especially considering how much money must already have been spent towards the new rules. It needs to pay off.

 

 

Well, I'm not sure Liberty would like to lose an engine manufacturer that currently supplies 40% of the grid...

In the worst case Toto walks away and Merc stands as an engine provider, focusing of McLaren - which for me would actually be a dream scenario.

[thuGG]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

 

Careful, just think of Mercedes pulling out when the F1 popularity is on the rise, everyone talks about you, you just won WCC. The money is flowing, the sponsors are there, and you make the greatest business decision to pull out 

Are you people 10 or something?

Edited by thuGG, 19 December 2021 - 10:02.

[Alex79]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

I am 100% procent convinced this will happen. Maybe not in the upcoming months, but definitely when the news engines come into play. Mercedes was coerced by Toto to buy Brawn GP because he, Brawn and Niki Lauda saw an opportunity to rule F1 for a decade. Mercedes only wants to buy into such an endeavour if succes Guaranteed! The first years were quite disappointing and already some board members in Stuttgart were trying to get Dieter Zetsche to bail out before 2014 as they did not know the scope of the new rules. Boy they did not know how quickly to shut up after that first win in Australia.

 

Since then it has been smooth sailing, but I think after this season the first dissenters are rearing their heads again. Exactly like a little story I heard from Walter Röhrl once. He made FIAT champion in the World Rally Championship in 1980 and Mercedes tempted him and Ari Vatanen to sign a five year contract and driving in the all new Mercedes SLC. But as he was evaluating the car just before Monte Carlo, the board wanted him to estimate if Mercedes had any chance of winning. As always Röhrl was brutally honest: "Top 5, and if it snow we're lucky to reach top10." The board knew enough and a few days before the start Mercedes pulled out of WRC, never to return. No chance of trophies, so no deal, thats how Das Haus rolls

[statman]

 

 

Well, I'm not sure Liberty would like to lose an engine manufacturer that currently supplies 40% of the grid...

 

And that's the problem, a manufacturer shouldn't supply 40% when they themselves have a team on the grid. It needs to be an independent engine manufacturer.

 

A Cosworth type of arrangement was perfect.

 

That's why we should be happy the MGU-H has been ditched.

[RA2]

Mercedes was coerced by Toto to buy Brawn GP because he, Brawn and Niki Lauda saw an opportunity to rule F1 for a decade. Mercedes only wants to buy into such an endeavour if succes Guaranteed!

In 1990?

[SophieB]

Seems to have been a while since anyone was talking about the gala in this gala thread. It can stay for a while if there’s stuff people want to say about it or images from it they want to share but maybe it’s run its course (until Lewis and Toto get thrown in F1 prison or whatever for not going anyway)

[DeKnyff]

To add insult to injury for Mercedes, a BMW logo right beside the trophy.

 

[Rumblestrip]

I see the Autosport headline managed to focus on the first time WDC winner being presented with his trophy, and not taint the occasion in any way.

[BRG]

I see the Autosport headline managed to focus on the first time WDC winner being presented with his trophy, and not taint the occasion in any way.

Good grief! What's wrong with them?  Don't they understand the story is about Mercedes only sending a junior and the beaten candidate not showing at all?  Who gives a damn about Max getting his trophy?  

[glenncondor]

F1 survived without Mercedes before. A return to more private teams would be welcomed by a lot of people.

 

Liberty would not like the idea, i'll give you that

 

And they stopped the supply of engines?

[glenncondor]

Careful, just think of Mercedes pulling out when the F1 popularity is on the rise, everyone talks about you, you just won WCC. The money is flowing, the sponsors are there, and you make the greatest business decision to pull out 

Are you people 10 or something?

No, 65 and attended my first GP in 1967 and have seen more Manufacturers come and go than I can recall.  Mercedes have reached the point (some time ago too) where they don't need to advertise their products.  A Mercedes has been the car people wanted for the past 40 years (at least).  Winning the WCC is a big thing for the teams and their personnel....but the public couldn't give a toss about it really.

 

Don't underestimate the prospect,  

[Rumblestrip]

And they stopped the supply of engines?

 

Presumably it wouldn't happen over Christmas, so there would be time to get other suppliers in to replace them. Unless you're suggesting they pull the plug now, which would be an interesting situation for the f1 team and PU factory.

[Gyan]

Careful FIA tough guy....Just think if Mercedes as a company said 'sod this for a laugh....we're not winning anymore and it doesn't look as though they're going to allow us to.....we've had our exposure, we're out of here'!

 

And don't think it couldn't happen!

I wish they do leave the sport and leave the FIA in a lurch as Formula 1 collapses in on itself afterwards. Hope covering up Michael Masi's incompetence is worth sacrificing the sport to the FIA. What's the point of the sport when the organizers themselves are going to fix it...

[Rumblestrip]

I wish they do leave the sport and leave the FIA in a lurch as Formula 1 collapses in on itself afterwards. Hope covering up Michael Masi's incompetence is worth sacrificing the sport to the FIA. What's the point of the sport when the organizers themselves are going to fix it...

 

Well, I think I speak for all F1 fans when I say...what?

[Gyan]

Well, I think I speak for all F1 fans when I say...what?

I wish Mercedes called the FIA's bluff and quit Formula 1. Given that would leave only 9 teams on the grid, and leave multiple teams without any engines on top of that, Mercedes quitting the sport citing the FIA cheating them out of a fair title fight would lay bare to the entire world the FIA's incompetence and lack of ethics. Of course Formula 1 ultimately wouldn't collapse as you'd get stakeholders - from fellow F1 teams to governments, the British in particular, taking Mercedes' side in the PR war exposing the FIA's incompetence and lack of ethics - especially as this would free Mercedes to expose the FIA in common courts - and ultimately force them into taking worthwhile action. I'll be highly surprised if the FIA actually takes any constructive action otherwise, Mercedes needed to force them into doing it and walking out of F1 would've forced the FIA to do it.

Edited by Gyan, 19 December 2021 - 20:00.

[Rumblestrip]

I wish Mercedes called the FIA's bluff and quit Formula 1. Given that would leave only 9 teams on the grid, and leave multiple teams without any engines on top of that, Mercedes quitting the sport citing the FIA cheating them out of a fair title fight would lay bare to the entire world the FIA's incompetence and lack of ethics. Of course Formula 1 ultimately wouldn't collapse as you'd get stakeholders - from fellow F1 teams to governments, the British in particular, taking Mercedes' side in the PR war exposing the FIA's incompetence and lack of ethics - especially as this would free Mercedes to expose the FIA in common courts - and ultimately force them into taking worthwhile action. I'll be highly surprised if the FIA actually takes any constructive action otherwise, Mercedes needed to force them into doing it and walking out of F1 would've forced the FIA to do it.

 

Hmmm... so threatening to bankrupt the grid would help expose the FIAs lack of ethics?

[Gyan]

Hmmm... so threatening to bankrupt the grid would help expose the FIAs lack of ethics?

Not threatening, Mercedes should actively walkout. They can't tell the truth about FIA's lack of ethics openly due to no teams in any FIA event not being allowed to take matters outside the FIA's court system. Mercedes, or any team, are under no obligation to take part in FIA's competitions when the FIA itself defends a race director deliberately rigging their premier competition because he simply fancied it. What's the point of taking part in a system that deliberately, openly, and unfairly works against you. The only way for Mercedes to fully tell the truth is by walking out of all FIA events. That, or anonymous press leaks, which I imagine is what they'll try and do now but I don't see that being effective to force the FIA's hand into actually doing something productive. Only Mercedes quitting the sport/FIA events will do force the FIA's hand into admitting its mistake and stupid attempt to deliberately rig its premier competition.

Edited by Gyan, 19 December 2021 - 20:36.

[MikeTekRacing]

Not threatening, Mercedes should actively walkout. They can't tell the truth about FIA's lack of ethics openly due to no teams in any FIA event not being allowed to take matters outside the FIA's court system. Mercedes, or any team, are under no obligation to take part in FIA's competitions when the FIA itself defends a race director deliberately rigging their premier competition because he simply fancied it. What's the point of taking part in a system that deliberately, openly, and unfairly works against you. The only way for Mercedes to fully tell the truth is by walking out of all FIA events. That, or anonymous press leaks, which I imagine is what they'll try and do now but I don't see that being effective to force the FIA's hand into actually doing something productive. Only Mercedes quitting the sport/FIA events will do force the FIA's hand into admitting its mistake and stupid attempt to deliberately rig its premier competition.

Do they start the truth with the ethical spicy engine?

[AlexPrime]

Merc won't get out after eight consecutive WCC, that's ridiculous. 

[Hellenic tifosi]

So, Mercedes should just waste hundreds of millions of investment, forfeit prize money payments, lay off staff, etc, just in order to expose some imaginary FIA bias against them? Mercedes is in a position that their entire operation is sustainable, and offers insane brand exposure benefits.

 

If they ever decide to walk, they will do this carefully, trying to sell at the highest possible price.

[ForzaGTR]

With rising Omicron cases it's pretty thoughtless of the FIA to hold a gala. Lewis leading from the front as always.

[NoForumForOldPole]

You can always sue Mercedes AMG for not pitting Lewis unders SC ;)

[Stephane]

And they stopped the supply of engines?

 

Not a Merc engine on the grid between 55 and 94, yes.

[Astandahl]

If Massa had a decent pitstop he would have stayed ahead of Hamilton. And would have won the WDC.

 

Apart from that it wasn't Piquet who fixed the race. He only followed orders under high presure.

What a stupid logic. I could say that if Hamilton had enough advantage over Max he would have been able to stop during the SC without the risk of losing the position, therefore Masi didn't fix the WDC.

Edited by Astandahl, 19 December 2021 - 22:59.

[ClubmanGT]

No, 65 and attended my first GP in 1967 and have seen more Manufacturers come and go than I can recall.  Mercedes have reached the point (some time ago too) where they don't need to advertise their products.  A Mercedes has been the car people wanted for the past 40 years (at least).  Winning the WCC is a big thing for the teams and their personnel....but the public couldn't give a toss about it really.

 

Don't underestimate the prospect,  

 

I feel like given AMG isn't run by sulking children, they probably won't do this. 

 

Let me know when Toto unveils an Indycar. 

[thuGG]

With rising Omicron cases it's pretty thoughtless of the FIA to hold a gala. Lewis leading from the front as always.

 

Yeah, I bet he would miss it if he won the WDC

The delussion of some people is astounding.

[IceSpeed]

Yeah, I bet he would miss it if he won the WDC
The delussion of some people is astounding.

It was a tongue in cheek comment 🙄

[CoolBreeze]

PIquet supervised the Ferrari pistops?

You have no clue what the original post it. The FIA themselves deemed the raced was fixed.

[Flyhigh]

I think Verstappen was the deserving champion, very happy that he won, at the same time I understand Lewis not wanting to go in the way things unfolded for him in those crazy last 6 lap and honestly don´t give a damn about Gala. I would also Understand if Senna did not want to attend the Gala at 1989 being taken away from the WDC fight due to politics from Ballestre or for that matter if Prost did not want to attend a Gala in the following year when Senna won by basically diving into him at 300Kmh 

I also would understand if Hill did not want to go to the Gala in 1994, etc. Who cares about this Gala and fake make up stuff anyway... in this Social media generation every little things needs to be hyped up, as they say here, you guys need to find some Dishes to wash, really. 

[Dolph]

With rising Omicron cases it's pretty thoughtless of the FIA to hold a gala. Lewis leading from the front as always.

 

?

[Gyan]

So, Mercedes should just waste hundreds of millions of investment, forfeit prize money payments, lay off staff, etc, just in order to expose some imaginary FIA bias against them? Mercedes is in a position that their entire operation is sustainable, and offers insane brand exposure benefits.

 

If they ever decide to walk, they will do this carefully, trying to sell at the highest possible price.

The only person imagining discussions about an FIA bias is you. I clearly repeatedly say Mercedes should quit to expose Michael Masi's incompetence and decision to rig the competition in a way that was unfair and not sporting not just to Mercedes but to Sainz and multiple other competitors, and the FIA's insistence on covering it up. The cover-up is worse than the crime which is more incompetence than crime.

[RA2]

Didn't Sainz finish the race on old hards?

[ForzaGTR]

Yeah, I bet he would miss it if he won the WDC
The delussion of some people is astounding.

Lighten up pal. It was a joke.

[Stephane]

Didn't Sainz finish the race on old hards?

Yeah, almost overtaken by both Alpha Tauri

[IrvTheSwerve]

So yeah...the gala...

[P123]

So yeah...the gala...

Nobody cares.

 

Only Kimi getting drunk or Lewis not showing up attracts any attention to this slick operation, usually watched by dozens the world over.

[JeePee]

I usually care about the gala because of the cool end of season montages they have. Not only for F1.