70 replies to this topic

[Charles E Taylor]

Peak-Merc?

 

 

 

With the response of the Mercedes Benz team to the outcome of the Abu Dhabi GP and the subsequent no-show at the FIA prizegiving ceremony.

 

The ability of Mercedes Benz to influence any future FIA rulemaking may be diminished.

 

 

 

Does this mean that we have reached Peak-Merc?

 

 

 

Discuss – Compare and Contrast!

 

 

 

 

Have fun and stay safe.

 

 

 

Charlie

[Risil]

They've still got their engine customers, and they've got their commission.

 

No doubt they've burnt some goodwill with the FIA with the threatened Abu Dhabi appeal and gala no-show, but sometimes you've got to rock the boat to show you've got the leverage and can imagine using it. Come to think of it, boycotting the gala was probably a way of saving face when they dropped an appeal they had a rock-solid case for.

[YamahaV10]

Eventually dynasties fall. Sport wise, Mercedes is on one of the biggest runs ever. Their engine still seems to have more hp than everyone else, so I dont think its over yet.

[P123]

'Peak Merc' was 2016.

[AlexPrime]

I hope so, I am tired of them.

[KeithD68]

Put another RD in the chair and Merc would have won both titles.  So no I don't think the dynasty is anywhere near being over.

 

They've seen RB throw their toys out the pram over engines, threatening to leave etc and get their won way, and are simply trying the same cap on for size.

Edited by KeithD68, 20 December 2021 - 20:54.

[AlexPrime]

Put another RD in the chair and Merc would have won both titles.  So no I don't think the dynasty is anywhere near being over.

 

They've seen RB throw their toys out the pram over engines, threatening to leave etc and get their won way, and are simply trying the same cap on for size.

And Ferrari before both of them. Seems to be typical of F1 top teams.

[sabjit]

They've still got their engine customers, and they've got their commission.

 

No doubt they've burnt some goodwill with the FIA with the threatened Abu Dhabi appeal and gala no-show, but sometimes you've got to rock the boat to show you've got the leverage and can imagine using it. Come to think of it, boycotting the gala was probably a way of saving face when they dropped an appeal they had a rock-solid case for.

 

This is one of the reasons |I'm baffled they dropped it. They could have dropped it at any time to ensure the FIAs commission was accountable. So why not leave it over their heads for the winter?

[whitewaterMkII]

This is one of the reasons |I'm baffled they dropped it. They could have dropped it at any time to ensure the FIAs commission was accountable. So why not leave it over their heads for the winter?

 

I'm guessing there was a huge bond involved.

[jonpollak]

Jp

[IceSpeed]

Jp

I know this is not the ‘What if Lewis retires thread’ but can we vote for Dani to take his spot?

😉

[YamahaV10]

Peak-Merc?



With the response of the Mercedes Benz team to the outcome of the Abu Dhabi GP and the subsequent no-show at the FIA prizegiving ceremony.

The ability of Mercedes Benz to influence any future FIA rulemaking may be diminished.



Does this mean that we have reached Peak-Merc?



Discuss – Compare and Contrast!




Have fun and stay safe.



Charlie

Peak Merc ? I sure hope so. But judging by the post Brazil engine that will be in the 2022 car, it's too early to say

[RPM40]

They changed the rules that seemed to specifically affect low rake cars more, hindering Mercedes and blocked in season development.

Yet they still won the WCC and were on track to win the WDC. I think they’ll be back to their best next year.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

I don't know what to think of Mercedes. When they were throwing engines at the problems, they were very quick.

So much for cost saving!

[GrumpyYoungMan]

This is one of the reasons |I'm baffled they dropped it. They could have dropped it at any time to ensure the FIAs commission was accountable. So why not leave it over their heads for the winter?

MONEY - and a bucket load of it!

We do not know what went on behind closed doors, but my guess is, it would involve a lot of money!

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 01 January 2022 - 08:10.

[Tenmantaylor]

This is one of the reasons |I'm baffled they dropped it. They could have dropped it at any time to ensure the FIAs commission was accountable. So why not leave it over their heads for the winter?

Who said they 100% have dropped it? Only because they aren't pursuing it now publicly doesn't mean they won't or can't later or aren't having discussions still behind the scenes. Would likely have gone on months anyway.

[Tenmantaylor]

I know this is not the ‘What if Lewis retires thread’ but can we vote for Dani to take his spot?

😉

I know a few F1 pundits who I wouldn't mind her replacing.

[PitViperRacing]

Peak Merc would be 2020, that car was insane and miles ahead of the field. Other year to nominate is maybe 2016?

 

I'm sure Merc will be at the front next year, but I'm hopeful Toto will have less influence moving forward.

[GlenWatkins]

They changed the rules that seemed to specifically affect low rake cars more, hindering Mercedes and blocked in season development.

Yet they still won the WCC and were on track to win the WDC. I think they’ll be back to their best next year.

Let's not forget that they didn't spend their tokens last year and so were esssentially running the 2020 car.

Edited by GlenWatkins, 01 January 2022 - 15:43.

[w1Y]

I hope the Brazil PU performance is a sign of what they have in store for 2022

[SpatialTech]

I think the opposite, to be honest. I only think AMG withdrew the appeal due to back room shady dealings, which is the FIA’s stock in trade.

Also Mercedes did turn up to the Gala, Hamilton was the only one missing.

Mercedes will not go out on a flat note either, and given the anger at the top of the food chain at AMG and Daimler, I think there would be an appetite for going for the throat now. I don’t expect any other team than Mercedes to be at the top of the timesheets come Q3 in March.

[SpatialTech]

Let's not forget that they didn't spend their tokens last year and so were esssentially running the 2021 car.

I said in another thread that they were running what ostensibly was a cut and shut W11 for most of the season. All tokens are on the 2022 car.

[Ali_G]

I hope the Brazil PU performance is a sign of what they have in store for 2022

Another 2020 season is exactly what F1 and the fans need.

[shure]

Mercedes influence may well be enhanced rather than diminished, as a result of the discussions which led to them dropping the appeal.

yeah, I think this is most likely, with one caveat: Ben S is new and doesn't have to take responsibility for decisions made before he got there, so a lot depends on him I feel.  If he wants to stamp his authority on things, then he can make life as difficult or as easy for Mercedes (or any team) as he wants.  If he starts off going out of his way to be conciliatory, then he may find it harder to take charge later on, but he may well want to form alliances to help him push through his own vision for F1's future, too.  I'd imagine Merc may be wrestling with how to play this themselves, with that in mind.  As will others

Edited by PayasYouRace, 01 January 2022 - 14:16.

[Coral]

Another 2020 season is exactly what F1 and the fans need.

After 2021, it's what I need. 2020 was a great season. Hopefully Merc will have a dominant car next year.

[shure]

Another 2020 season is exactly what F1 and the fans need.

Lewis won the Constructor's Championship on his own in 2020, while Merc got more points than the 2nd and 3rd placed teams combined, and there were a good number of people questioning whether they would even bother watching 2021 as it had become too predictable.  I get why some Merc fans might want a repeat, but disagree it's what F1 needs.  I think the majority would be happy with another 2021, just without the various controversies (which I'm personally sceptical is possible, but we can hope).

[SpatialTech]

Lewis won the Constructor's Championship on his own in 2020, while Merc got more points than the 2nd and 3rd placed teams combined, and there were a good number of people questioning whether they would even bother watching 2021 as it had become too predictable.  I get why some Merc fans might want a repeat, but disagree it's what F1 needs.  I think the majority would be happy with another 2021, just without the various controversies (which I'm personally sceptical is possible, but we can hope).

It’s odd, as I love a close season, 2010, 2012, all good ones from recent memory, but this feels different. We all have our own take on 21, and AD, but I’d like to see Hamilton rinse the field in 22 and walk off into the sunset. We’ll not have F1 as it stands currently for much longer, it will morph into an electric series eventually, or just become socially unacceptable (I rule nothing out) so Hamilton’s record, imo, will never be matched. I’d like to see his career end like that.

[Dhillon]

IWe all have our own take on 21, and AD, but I’d like to see Hamilton rinse the field in 22 and walk off into the sunset.

I’d love to see Hamilton won a championship against an equal opponent in an equal car , at least once before he walks.

[w1Y]

Another 2020 season is exactly what F1 and the fans need.

Yeah a battle between merc powered cars. Mclaren, AM and Merc.

[lightstoflag]

I’d love to see Hamilton won a championship against an equal opponent in an equal car , at least once before he walks.

He was basically about to do it this year until a certain incident occurred. Why would you ask of him something that Schumacher himself never accomplished? In '94 and '95 Damon was wildly his inferior; in '00 Mika was his inferior; in '01, '02, and '04 there were no drivers nor cars in the field that were equal. The only time he was racing someone on his level for the championship was '03 (when the car difference was too great) and '06 (when he lost in somewhat similar fashion to Lewis this year). 

[P123]

I’d love to see Hamilton won a championship against an equal opponent in an equal car , at least once before he walks.

 

You saw that in 2008 (not his best season, but was against a faster car), 2014 (same car/ equal car), 2015, 2017.. and the only thing that stopped him this time around was an unorthodox stewarding call.  So you're need appear largely fulfilled and not something worth bothering about.  It's done already.

 

Another 2020 season is exactly what F1 and the fans need.

 

Short, I agree.  2020 was a pretty good season actually (two new winners, 13 different podium visitors, some welcome track variation minus the car park run-offs, etc), although if your main motivation for watching was to see a certain driver lose then being in a frump about that year is understandable.

[thefinalapex]

Short, I agree.  2020 was a pretty good season actually (two new winners, 13 different podium visitors, some welcome track variation minus the car park run-offs, etc), although if your main motivation for watching was to see a certain driver lose then being in a frump about that year is understandable.

 

Is it so hard to understand that there are actually people that want to see a competition at the front, for a championship? Ali never mentioned Hamilton or wanting him to loose. Not everything revolves around your beloved Hamilton. I wonder if its actually possible for you to actually to respond to posts without having to be condescending or snide as it seems its your only modus operandi when it comes to posts that involve Hamilton.

[IceSpeed]

I’d love to see Hamilton won a championship against an equal opponent in an equal car , at least once before he walks.

Equal opponent is going to be difficult because we don’t have anyone in F1 that is close to Hamilton’s caliber/ overall experience so doubt you would ever see it.

Equal car - 2008/2014/2015/2017/2018

[ebc]

Another dominant Mercedes season would be a disaster for F1, if after the new regulations they are well on top next year then I can't much changing until the new engine regs in 2026, so that will be another 5 season of Merc on top.

 

The more races and titles Hamilton wins then they more they are going to be questioned, he is good but winning 8 or 9 titles and 120+ Grand Prix is ridiculous and will damage the sport, Hamilton is a great driver but most of his success has been handed to him on a plate with Mercs superiority. 

 

It would be better for Lewis if it were close and he had to fight for it because most of his titles are pretty forgettable apart from his first, and that is a shame.  Of his 7 titles, 5 of them have been in a dominant car, so another is not going to make a difference.  But if it is a hard fought title then it will be worth so much more, I can't understand how any F1 fan would want another dominant Mercedes season.  I was a huge Schumacher fan but I was glad we got to see new contenders in 2005 it was great for the sport.

 

Hopefully Merc have peaked and this new era of F1 is much more competitive and we can see all the top drivers with opportunities to win titles not just a RedBull or Merc driver.

[Anja]

I can't understand how any F1 fan would want another dominant Mercedes season.

 

Yeah, same. I suppose some people are Hamilton fans first, F1 fans seconds. 

[P123]

Is it so hard to understand that there are actually people that want to see a competition at the front, for a championship? Ali never mentioned Hamilton or wanting him to loose. Not everything revolves around your beloved Hamilton. I wonder if its actually possible for you to actually to respond to posts without having to be condescending or snide as it seems its your only modus operandi when it comes to posts that involve Hamilton.

 

You just said it didn't involve Hamilton.  Anyway, this is a topic about Mercedes, for whom he drives for, and wins a lot for, including that mentioned year.  I apologise if you find me too coarse towards those who may approach their posting based on sniping about certain drivers.  Actually, no I don't.  Why should those with a negative bent be treated with kid gloves?  But don't worry, in time I'll just come to laugh at them, and not upset their supposed delicate sensibilities, as I do with those who gripe(d) about Montoya.

 

Anyway, the point is 2020 was not a bad season.  Something like 2015- absolutely. And some seasons where drivers canter away with it can be entertaining - like 2002. 

[ForzaGTR]

It's hard to judge when peak Merc has been or will be, it's more to do with the opposition dropping the ball. Yeah after year.

Fingers crossed we get another close battle next year.

[SpatialTech]

It's hard to judge when peak Merc has been or will be, it's more to do with the opposition dropping the ball. Yeah after year.
Fingers crossed we get another close battle next year.

I remember Vettel’s “Balls in the pool” comment and thought that will come back to bite them all.

[Counterbalance]

I’d like to see a peak Mercedes in 2022 with Hamilton and Russel finishing first and second in the WDC and the team capturing the WCC at the earliest possible opportunity. And yeah, so what - I’m a staunch Hamilton supporter (and all British drivers for that matter), but after the complete last lap farce at Abu Dhabi, it would right a massive wrong in my eyes. And I suspect the entire Mercedes team are most probably hugely motivated by the events that transpired on the 12th December, in fact I’m pretty sure they are.

So here’s to hoping 2022 is a stellar season for everyone at at Mercedes and they rise to new heights. And for those who complain that another Mercedes / Hamilton victory would destroy the sport, I’d counter that one man did more damage to F1 in a few short minutes than another Mercedes triumph ever could.

[IceSpeed]

I’d like to see a peak Mercedes in 2022 with Hamilton and Russel finishing first and second in the WDC and the team capturing the WCC at the earliest possible opportunity. And yeah, so what - I’m a staunch Hamilton supporter (and all British drivers for that matter), but after the complete last lap farce at Abu Dhabi, it would right a massive wrong in my eyes. And I suspect the entire Mercedes team are most probably hugely motivated by the events that transpired on the 12th December, in fact I’m pretty sure they are.

So here’s to hoping 2022 is a stellar season for everyone at at Mercedes and they rise to new heights. And for those who complain that another Mercedes / Hamilton victory would destroy the sport, I’d counter that one man did more damage to F1 in a few short minutes than another Mercedes triumph ever could.

To be honest I can’t see any true F1 fan/Fan of the sport not wanting this. In fact I think Max will want to see this too otherwise he may not be able to live his 1st WDC down.

[alframsey]

I am a Lewis fan and want to see him fight it out with all the great talents of the sport and win the title through his own talents and performance, not with a dominant car where he doesn't even need to try.

[MKSixer]

I’d love to see Hamilton won a championship against an equal opponent in an equal car , at least once before he walks.

Oh boy.  

[Counterbalance]

I am a Lewis fan and want to see him fight it out with all the great talents of the sport and win the title through his own talents and performance, not with a dominant car where he doesn't even need to try.

That would be a perfect scenario in 2023.

[HeadFirst]

Jp

 

Good call JP, exactly what I was thinking. Nice pic of Danica too.

[PitViperRacing]

Regardless of who comes out on top, I want the season to be a thrilling contest between multiple (more than two) teams and drivers right up until the last race. Would hate to see it revert back to 2020 levels of dominance, even if it's my beloved Alpine out front every race.

The contest is what makes it exciting. I don't want to go into each weekend knowing who will probably win or having the season decided by 1/2 way through.

Edited by PitViperRacing, 01 January 2022 - 22:59.

[alframsey]

Regardless of who comes out on top, I want the season to be a thrilling contest between multiple (more than two) teams and drives right up until the last race. Would hate to see it revert back to 2020 levels of dominance, even if it's my beloved Alpine out front every race.

 

The contest is what makes it exciting. I don't want to go into each weekend knowing who will probably win or having the season decided by 1/2 way through.

Exactly this. As much as I love to see Lewis win and I really do enjoy it, it was pretty boring when it was inevitable if he just turned up he would win. I like to see him in a fight just like we did get glimpses of during 2017 and 2018 and this season just gone. Heck even when he had to fight Nico! It brings the best out of him.

 

2020, while it was a gift to see how amazing that car was, was bloody boring at the front.

 

Lewis to be in a multi team/driver fight for the title, reaching new heights of performance, and taking it at the final race.

Edited by alframsey, 01 January 2022 - 22:18.

[FNG]

 

 

Short, I agree.  2020 was a pretty good season actually (two new winners, 13 different podium visitors, some welcome track variation minus the car park run-offs, etc), although if your main motivation for watching was to see a certain driver lose then being in a frump about that year is understandable.

 

 

Pretty sure his post was sarcasm but I could be wrong

[Counterbalance]

Exactly this. As much as I love to see Lewis win and I really do enjoy it, it was pretty boring when it was inevitable if he just turned up he would win. I like to see him in a fight just like we did get glimpses of during 2017 and 2018 and this season just gone. Heck even when he had to fight Nico! It brings the best out of him.

2020, while it was a gift to see how amazing that car was, was bloody boring at the front.

Lewis to be in a multi team/driver fight for the title, reaching new heights of performance, and taking it at the final race.

In all fairness I wouldn’t mind that either, apart from the bit in bold, for obvious reasons. A race in hand would do fine.

Edited by Counterbalance, 01 January 2022 - 23:22.

[P123]

Pretty sure his post was sarcasm but I could be wrong

 

Yes, as was my first sentence in response.

[P123]

Exactly this. As much as I love to see Lewis win and I really do enjoy it, it was pretty boring when it was inevitable if he just turned up he would win. I like to see him in a fight just like we did get glimpses of during 2017 and 2018 and this season just gone. Heck even when he had to fight Nico! It brings the best out of him.

 

2020, while it was a gift to see how amazing that car was, was bloody boring at the front.

 

Lewis to be in a multi team/driver fight for the title, reaching new heights of performance, and taking it at the final race.

 

Multi-team and driver title fights are rare.  Although 2010 is probably up there with my favourite seasons.  A championship that could have swung many ways for a number of drivers purely based on any of them avoiding a single piece of misfortune that came there way through that season.