223 replies to this topic

[dannyricsshoe]

Can people swoop any lower?
I know he's not everyone's favorite driver but he's never done anything to deliberately hurt anyone so I just don't understand the logic behind these stupid threats.

https://www.bbc.com/...rmula1/59747656

[Rediscoveryx]

Well, I hope and believe that this comes from a tiny minority of idiots. Looking at the posts in this forum (where it’s fair to say that the average user has a fairly strong passion for the sport) I have so far not encountered a single post that puts any moral blame on Latifi for what happened.

[dannyricsshoe]

Well, I hope and believe that this comes from a tiny minority of idiots. Looking at the posts in this forum (where it’s fair to say that the average user has a fairly strong passion for the sport) I have so far not encountered a single post that puts any moral blame on Latifi for what happened.

The very nature of the damage that led to the crash makes it impossible that it would be staged anyway.

[ForzaGTR]

The internet gives cave dwelling orcs a voice, sadly. Best to just ingore them.

[Nemo1965]

Don't despair. From personal and professional experience I can tell you that there always have been people who threaten, insult or slander prominent people in the public eye. It is just that the internet gives a lot of more individuals the chance to do so publicly. Three examples.

1. When I was seventeen, I worked at the switchboard of Dutch daily for a while (the same newspaper I later would work for as a journalist). A lot of calls with people threatening, yelling, whatever. One incident I remember. A man was out of breath angry because of one letter that was placed in the open section. I told him friendly that this letter was not representative of the newspaper and furthermore, that on the same page three other letters were printed with the opposite view. He did not care. That ONE letter should never have been printed. He cursed me and then disconnected.

2. Before Facebook (!), in 2000, me and my collegial-journalists found out the hard way. I and two others contributors of the magazine I worked for (printed by the biggest publisher in the Netherlands, with a circulation of about 250.000 copies) got the premiere (I believe) for the first online op-ed column by a real publisher... with an open Forum attached to the column. Within three weeks there were pages and pages of abuse. The publisher discontinued it.

3. My wife (also a journalist back then) had an op-ed column for the same Dutch daily I had worked for. Because her ideas and opinions were not typical leftist, the online abuse made waves after every edition she wrote in. The worst was when she expressed doubts about tattoo's... the hate and abuse was so bad, she quit her column. Later I managed to convince Google to remove several abusing content from Google-searches.

One good point of news: in the Netherlands small crimes (like arson, theft and vandalism) are decreasing. Several sociological studies indicate this is because people can now be 'vandals' online instead of in the real world. It depends on your viewpoint what would be the better option... for us.

Edited by Nemo1965, 22 December 2021 - 11:19.

[Requiem84]

These situations also show how important it is that the people involved don’t throw wood on the fire.

The (understandable) live race reactions of Wolff will only encourage these type of people to act as they do.

[macjim]

It's unfortunately part of "modern" life now, social media has many good qualities but also pitfalls.

 

Social media allows people to hide behind anonymous names to spew hatred out, normally it’s because of something else wrong in their own lives, and they just vent at somebody.

 

I always work on the principle, if I wouldn’t say it to somebodies face then I don’t say it online.

[Singularity]

They say they do a lot to stifle hate, violence and misinformation, the social media giants. Still it only seem to increase. But if I post a video of someone eating a birthday cake and the background music is audible and copyrighted, they switch it off immediately. 

[Casey]

It's disgusting , and not just Lafiti but also Masi is getting bombarded .

 

People need to tone it down , people like Samuel l. Jackson screaming racism are not helping .

[Huffer]

It's appalling the abuse that Latifi is getting, although rather sadly, not surprising. The same goes for Masi. 

 

It's just not on. Anybody who engages in this sort of crap is not a fan of F1 and I want nothing to do with them. 

[pitlanepalpatine]

They say they do a lot to stifle hate, violence and misinformation, the social media giants. Still it only seem to increase. But if I post a video of someone eating a birthday cake and the background music is audible and copyrighted, they switch it off immediately. 

 

Not always, that's why there's third party tools that automate DMCA strikes. If there was real money to be made in protecting peoples online feelings there would be a solution. But as anyone who's ever been a content mod knows, it's a thankless ****ing job that most people wouldn't pay for.

[P123]

Unfortunately it's the online world, and F1 fandom is chest deep in it; never covering themselves in much glory.

[Rocket73]

The whole reaction has been way over the top. And it continues to be an embarrassment to f1.

[Steve99]

I used to mod a forum on an F1 website (now defunct) for which I was editor. We had some who would pop in and post abusive nonsense about whoever, but most were genuine fans of the sport who had perhaps a favourite team or driver but also respect for others. Every Facebook page I read now features unadulterated comments by people who are - in the main - here to hate Hamilton (and no, hate is not too big a word for some of these people) and love Verstappen. A good rivalry is always great, but when it descends into the gutter as with a lot of the comments it's not longer about the sport. As others have mentioned, Social Media is to blame.

[mmmcurry]

Welcome to the internet where any idiot can shout their hair brained opinions more or less free from repercussions.

 

Steve.

[Singularity]

Not always, that's why there's third party tools that automate DMCA strikes. If there was real money to be made in protecting peoples online feelings there would be a solution. But as anyone who's ever been a content mod knows, it's a thankless ****ing job that most people wouldn't pay for.

I know, but anyone who ever been a content mod also knows that a lot of the stuff that has to be handled manually contains patterns that even a reasonably simple AI could handle. So I do not think it is a money issue from the perspective of how much it would cost to develop a functional "hate and lies" algorithm, it is instead an issue with the money they lose if that kind of content was removed or forced to be rewritten. Yes, I know, "freedom of speech" and so on, but the AI could learn to be lenient with users who normally behave and more strict with users who get the attention of the algorithm often. It is not difficult, but nasty and lies equals profit.

[macjim]

I used to mod a forum on an F1 website (now defunct) for which I was editor. We had some who would pop in and post abusive nonsense about whoever, but most were genuine fans of the sport who had perhaps a favourite team or driver but also respect for others. Every Facebook page I read now features unadulterated comments by people who are - in the main - here to hate Hamilton (and no, hate is not too big a word for some of these people) and love Verstappen. A good rivalry is always great, but when it descends into the gutter as with a lot of the comments it's not longer about the sport. As others have mentioned, Social Media is to blame.

 

Yeah I know what you mean. I moderated the F1 Planet forum for a while about 12 yrs ago, during the 2007-08 spygate debacle, now that was an eye opener - you're never quite sure as a moderator if it's a valid point they're trying to make or just on the wind up.

[PlayboyRacer]

The whole reaction has been way over the top. And it continues to be an embarrassment to f1.

The death threats and online abuse targeting certain individuals is over the top. No excuse for it. They should be dealt with.

The reaction in general though? Not over the top at all. What transpired was disgraceful and F1 embarrassed itself on the world sporting stage. And it's not just "hardcore" fans that are disgusted, I know plenty of casual F1 fans that cannot believe what unfolded and they think F1 is just one big joke. Not every "casual" F1 fan is a Netflix idiot.

[Requiem84]

The death threats and online abuse targeting certain individuals is over the top. No excuse for it. They should be dealt with.

The reaction in general though? Not over the top at all. What transpired was disgraceful and F1 embarrassed itself on the world sporting stage. And it's not just "hardcore" fans that are disgusted, I know plenty of casual F1 fans that cannot believe what unfolded and they think F1 is just one big joke. Not every "casual" F1 fan is a Netflix idiot.

 

The reactions from the 'aggrieved' (such as Samuel L Jackson) however are a feeding ground for people venting their anger by means of death threats though. 

[Astandahl]

Embarrassing. Latifi made a mistake and that's it. It's not his fault that the FIA / Race Control made a mess.

[PlayboyRacer]

The reactions from the 'aggrieved' (such as Samuel L Jackson) however are a feeding ground for people venting their anger by means of death threats though.

Agreed.

[andyscoot]

These situations also show how important it is that the people involved don’t throw wood on the fire.

The (understandable) live race reactions of Wolff will only encourage these type of people to act as they do.

 

Since you brought TP's into it. Don't you think Horner saying "We owe him a lifetime supply of Red Bull" with a **** eating grin may have added wood to the fire, as you put it?

[Nemo1965]

The death threats and online abuse targeting certain individuals is over the top. No excuse for it. They should be dealt with.

The reaction in general though? Not over the top at all. What transpired was disgraceful and F1 embarrassed itself on the world sporting stage. And it's not just "hardcore" fans that are disgusted, I know plenty of casual F1 fans that cannot believe what unfolded and they think F1 is just one big joke. Not every "casual" F1 fan is a Netflix idiot.

 

I would be very interested in seeing a good, independent survey about how the race was perceived by F1 fans. It would be nice in that survey if the respondents also are asked if they support one of the two drivers involved, how long they are watching F1, and so forth.

 

My impression, from a broad but meagre selection of papers I read, media I see: most fans, if you combine the anoraks, connoisseurs and 'superficial' fans don't think the final was disgraceful or embarrassing. But I could be wrong. See my first sentence.

 

PS: I also have to say that in my perception F1 is not seen as important enough to be embarrassing in a real, social context. Not like the Olympic Games in China or the World Championship Football in Qatar, for example. Case in point: I've already read two op-ed articles in the Netherlands in important news-media that basically state that Max Verstappen should not be named 'Sportspersonailty of the Year'(an oxymoron if there ever was one). Because F1 is more amusement than sport, you see. 

Edited by Nemo1965, 22 December 2021 - 09:16.

[Requiem84]

Since you brought TP's into it. Don't you think Horner saying "We owe him a lifetime supply of Red Bull" with a **** eating grin may have added wood to the fire, as you put it?

 

Yeah, that isn't helpful at all too. 

[smitten]

It is disgraceful that anybody should level such hate against a sportsperson.

 

It's very easy to say that "these aren't real F1 fans", but the truth is they are.  The polarisation has been noted before, but F1 would do well to have some introspection and wonder why a proportion of the fan base has such extreme reactions.  The journalism and rent-a-quote team bosses have stooped pretty low on a number of occasions this year.  And the DtS trend of creating "conflict for ratings" cannot do anything to help treat each other humanely. 

 

We need to take action against those actively posting the hate, but also need to look within for why they feel encouraged to do so.

[Nemo1965]

It is disgraceful that anybody should level such hate against a sportsperson.

It's very easy to say that "these aren't real F1 fans", but the truth is they are. The polarisation has been noted before, but F1 would do well to have some introspection and wonder why a proportion of the fan base has such extreme reactions. The journalism and rent-a-quote team bosses have stooped pretty low on a number of occasions this year. And the DtS trend of creating "conflict for ratings" cannot do anything to help treat each other humanely.

We need to take action against those actively posting the hate, but also need to look within for why they feel encouraged to do so.

You are right. If I were an editor with Autosport, I would not place a headline with war anywhere... (Quote: How F1 teams tackled 2021's unique development war)

Edited by Nemo1965, 22 December 2021 - 11:20.

[Collombin]

Horner saying "We owe him a lifetime supply of Red Bull"

This on top of the death threats? Poor, poor man 😢

[PlayboyRacer]

Well. I am not a casual fan. And I don't think it was a disgrace. N=1. But still...

I'm intrigued. Clearly you're more than a casual fan. You think the way the safety car period and race ending was handled was ok? It was sporting?

[FortiFord]

These situations also show how important it is that the people involved don’t throw wood on the fire.

The (understandable) live race reactions of Wolff will only encourage these type of people to act as they do.

 

Not sure i follow your logic there. Wolff didn't say anything about Latifi. 

 

On the other hand, Horner made some comments about Latifi getting an unlimited supply of Red Bull. The majority know that was a tongue in cheek comment, but that kind of comment would encourage the type of people we're referring to in this thread. 

[Rediscoveryx]

It is disgraceful that anybody should level such hate against a sportsperson.

It's very easy to say that "these aren't real F1 fans", but the truth is they are. The polarisation has been noted before, but F1 would do well to have some introspection and wonder why a proportion of the fan base has such extreme reactions. The journalism and rent-a-quote team bosses have stooped pretty low on a number of occasions this year. And the DtS trend of creating "conflict for ratings" cannot do anything to help treat each other humanely.

We need to take action against those actively posting the hate, but also need to look within for why they feel encouraged to do so.

On the other hand, if you look around at this forum I don’t see any negative sentiments aimed at Latifi, so it’s a very very small minority of fans that are behaving this way.

[Baddoer]

I guess these people have learned nothing from history of Timo Glock.

Absolute disgrace.

[Nemo1965]

I'm intrigued. Clearly you're more than a casual fan. You think the way the safety car period and race ending was handled was ok? It was sporting?

 

Oh no. We've had a thread with 100 of pages about that. Read the posts of Shure in that thread. I agree with most of them. I disagree with the posts of NewBrittain, but I liked his posts too. He makes a good case. 

[JimmyClark]

[font='helvetica neue'][size=2]
I always work on the principle, if I wouldn’t say it to somebodies face then I don’t say it online.

This, 1000x over.

[Sterzo]

As Nemo has eloquently explained, there's nothing new about this kind of offensive hatred. It's always existed and almost certainly always will. And not only are there always people to be offensive, but there are always people with no morals to make a profit out of anything at all, however repulsive.

 

The problem is that our governments are asleep. If Autosport printed death threat letters in its paper magazine, they could be sued and prosecuted. The laws were made before internet social media existed. Facebook, Twitter et al, somehow get away with farcical claims that they publish nothing but merely provide a "platform". Wake up, politicians. Stop bewailing the awfulness of social media and enact some laws.

[Tenmantaylor]

These situations also show how important it is that the people involved don’t throw wood on the fire.

The (understandable) live race reactions of Wolff will only encourage these type of people to act as they do.

And the OG Horner claiming racing incidents were intentional acts of putting people in hospital...

[Tenmantaylor]

It is disgraceful that anybody should level such hate against a sportsperson.

Agree, let's save it for the FIA.

[Hellenic tifosi]

 

 

I always work on the principle, if I wouldn’t say it to somebodies face then I don’t say it online.

 

 

[OneAndOnly]

Keyboard warriors. It's not easy for anyone to get this kind of abuse, but the best course of action is to ignore them. 

[statman]

at some point the whining of certain fans will die down, right? What were those steps leading to acceptance again?

 

on the other hand, this forum is an example it might not...

 

As for 'social' media, I'm still a fan of the idea you have use some sort of ID in order to create a profile on those platforms.

[Casey]

Agree, let's save it for the FIA.

 

We are talking about death threats here !

[Tenmantaylor]

We are talking about death threats here !

Death threats are never acceptable.

Hatred against the FIA is fully justified until they get their house in order and revisit, admit and rectify their failures from this year.

[statman]

Death threats are never acceptable.

Hatred against the FIA is fully justified until they get their house in order and revisit, admit and rectify their failures from this year.

 

There's nothing to 'rectify'. All races have finished and are now part of the record books. Done and dusted, finita, terminada, beendet.

 

You might not like it, but that's something for you to deal with.

[Sterzo]

Death threats are never acceptable.

Hatred against the FIA is fully justified until they get their house in order and revisit, admit and rectify their failures from this year.

The whole problem here is when people step across the line from rational criticism to emotive condemnation. That's what makes social media such a problem. Hatred is well over that line, and well into the area of irrational enmity which is destructive to society.

[jjcale]

IMHO ... this discussion needs some balance ... its a topic where it very easy to do the "I am a good person and I say/believe good things" type of post ... so I am going to be devil's advocate for a bit. 

 

How many messages has he had? Are any of them serious? Has he felt the need to hire security? how seriously are the police where he lives taking it? Have they given him extra protection?

 

IF its not serious ... Cant he just get off social media till this blows over? 

 

Why is this a big deal at all? 

 

I know people who have had death threats - so I know its not fun - and on some of the time it was taken seriously, they had security and so did their  family ... so I am not unsympathetic if its serious - or even if its just that he thinks its serious.

 

... but I also know people who had death threats that were not serious ... and they brushed them off and moved on. 

 

ATM I dont know which type these are that he is dealing with. 

 

Even if its the non-serious kind, I dont thinks nice for him to endure this .... but non-serious is not the same as serious. 

 

TBH if its non-serious - this is a non-story except that he is an F1 driver and the last "race" was a very high profile event ... but the reason why its a story is not because he is in danger... Its only a story because he bought his way into F1 and he is now a high profile person involved in a high profile field.   

 

There .... somebody had to say it.

[OO7]

So the same type of idiots we've heard about before making death threats, are now trying to Glock Latifi.

[B38]

So you were cool with the rulebook being ignored and a finish being manipulated for a grandstand finish? Because that's what happened and, in my eyes, that's a disgrace. But feel free to sugar coat it if that's what makes you happy.

All actions were actually within rulebook. Just as Imola and Silverstone were. That you don't like or understand it, is something different...

[BobbyRicky]

IMHO ... this discussion needs some balance ... its a topic where it very easy to do the "I am a good person and I say/believe good things" type of post ... so I am going to be devil's advocate for a bit. 

 

How many messages has he had? Are any of them serious? Has he felt the need to hire security? how seriously are the police where he lives taking it? Have they given him extra protection?

 

IF its not serious ... Cant he just get off social media till this blows over? 

 

Why is this a big deal at all? 

 

I know people who have had death threats - so I know its not fun - and on some of the time it was taken seriously, they had security and so did their  family ... so I am not unsympathetic if its serious - or even if its just that he thinks its serious.

 

... but I also know people who had death threats that were not serious ... and they brushed them off and moved on. 

 

ATM I dont know which type these are that he is dealing with. 

 

Even if its the non-serious kind, I dont thinks nice for him to endure this .... but non-serious is not the same as serious. 

 

TBH if its non-serious - this is a non-story except that he is an F1 driver and the last "race" was a very high profile event ... but the reason why its a story is not because he is in danger... Its only a story because he bought his way into F1 and he is now a high profile person involved in a high profile field.   

 

There .... somebody had to say it.

 

Every threat one recieves should be taken seriously since it only takes one deranged mind to make good of it.

How one even starts arguing about "non-serious" vs "serious" threats of bodily harm is abit puzzling to me.

[P123]

IMHO ... this discussion needs some balance ... its a topic where it very easy to do the "I am a good person and I say/believe good things" type of post ... so I am going to be devil's advocate for a bit. 

 

How many messages has he had? Are any of them serious? Has he felt the need to hire security? how seriously are the police where he lives taking it? Have they given him extra protection?

 

IF its not serious ... Cant he just get off social media till this blows over? 

 

Why is this a big deal at all? 

 

I know people who have had death threats - so I know its not fun - and on some of the time it was taken seriously, they had security and so did their  family ... so I am not unsympathetic if its serious - or even if its just that he thinks its serious.

 

... but I also know people who had death threats that were not serious ... and they brushed them off and moved on. 

 

ATM I dont know which type these are that he is dealing with. 

 

Even if its the non-serious kind, I dont thinks nice for him to endure this .... but non-serious is not the same as serious. 

 

TBH if its non-serious - this is a non-story except that he is an F1 driver and the last "race" was a very high profile event ... but the reason why its a story is not because he is in danger... Its only a story because he bought his way into F1 and he is now a high profile person involved in a high profile field.   

 

There .... somebody had to say it.

I've no doubt he'll have had an avalanche of abuse behind the anonymity of anti-social media.  Although I'm sure (if Youtube or Facebook are anything to go by) the likes of Hamilton will receive such on a daily basis. 

 

This is Glock, describing the abuse he received regarding Interlagos (and I'd say even on here there are some people still happily ignorant about that if it helps cast a negative light):

 

 

"We even had letters come in to my family, to my dad and mom's house about how I had done this and how people should shoot me, I shouldn't be in the sport anymore. I could not believe how bad people could be. It was pretty extreme."

[smitten]

All actions were actually within rulebook. Just as Imola and Silverstone were. That you don't like or understand it, is something different...

It's comments like that which foster division.  Regardless of which side of the argument you are on, it's pretty clear that the last lap of Abu Dhabi was controversial - hence why there is a commission.

 

It is a completely unnecessary and inflammatory comment in the context of the discussion on how right or wrong it is to send death threats to a sportsperson.

[FLB]

Emanuele Pirro also receoved death threats after Vettel's penalty at Montreal in 2019.

 

https://www.sportwor...anged-my-life-/