12 replies to this topic

[Rodaknee]

Steve Nichols & The McLaren MP4/4

Currently there is a short version of an hour.  Longer one coming!

 

 

For almost 30 years, the general public have been told that the McLaren MP4/4, the most successful F1 car of all time, was in fact an evolution of Gordon Murray's Brabham BT55. His suggestion has always been that it was an evolution of the "low-line" concept behind the Brabham. However, the BT55 was a complete failure on track and led to Murray departing Brabham - as well as their competitive downfall. In today's video, I sit down with McLaren's Chief Designer Steve Nichols - who many claim is in fact the true architect of this car. He was also race engineer to Ayrton Senna and worked with the likes of John Watson, Alain Prost, Niki Lauda and Nigel Mansell in a career that spanned over 25 years. After three decades of Murray claiming credit for the 4/4, Nichols has been motivated to speak out and I was lucky enough to be chosen to talk to him about what happened - and why he thinks Gordon is doing this.

 

How the publication of the Haynes "McLaren Mp4/4 Owners' Workshop Manual" kicked off legal threats from Gordon Murray.

 

 

[macjim]

The MP4/4, now that was a dominate car. I see the bun fight still goes on today about who actually designed it 

 

In all my many years of watching F1, it's the most iconic looking car for me - livery ain't bad either

 

Most of the cars of the late 80's, early 90s had a simplicity about them, instead of the current era monstrosities – with multiple winglets etc.

[Peeko]

The full interview is out now. Its really is a great watch. Gotta say the 4/3 looks a lot more like the 4/4 than the BT55 does.

[MKSixer]

 

The MP4/4, now that was a dominate car. I see the bun fight still goes on today about who actually designed it 

 

 

In all my many years of watching F1, it's the most iconic looking car for me - livery ain't bad either

 

Most of the cars of the late 80's, early 90s had a simplicity about them, instead of the current era monstrosities – with multiple winglets etc.

 

Much in the way a Submarine Spitfire or P51 has a certain elegance vs an F22 but we know what you'd want to be in if a 1 v 1 situation were to arise. The old ones are more elegant but the new ones are more efficient weapons.

[PayasYouRace]

Seems like an appropriate thread for this:

 

[Secretariat]

I recall having these discussions back in the day about the MP4/4 in internet forums lost to time and space (but not the wayback machine) and would reference the official documentation and database info (e.g the old Atlas F1, forix) and Steve Nichols' name was always there. However, there was always a rebuff and the source material was this Ian Bamsey book. The proverbial next question was always, well why is his name there then? Seeing that letter was pretty cool. In any case, a very nice long-form interview.

Edited by Secretariat, 28 December 2021 - 21:32.

[PayasYouRace]

Much in the way a Submarine Spitfire or P51 has a certain elegance vs an F22 but we know what you'd want to be in if a 1 v 1 situation were to arise. The old ones are more elegant but the new ones are more efficient weapons.

 

Supermarine. Above the water, not below it.

 

Though there are interesting studies initiated in the 1960s about how jet fighters would deal with piston-engined fighters of WW2 vintage, from the days when many third world nations still flew the latter. Turns out, modern jet fighters advantages aren't as big as you'd think in that situation.

 

Though I think comparing F1 cars from different eras in that manner is pointless. I think the early 90s were a real sweet spot in racing car design.

[TennisUK]

Steve Nichols has always seemed like a much nicer guy than Gordon Murray, who has always come across as incredibly arrogant in practically every interview of his I’ve ever seen or read.

[BRG]

A look at the Gordon Murray Automotive website suggests you might be right.  He proudly terms himself Professor Gordon Murray CBE, but I believe that it was an Honorary Professorship from his alma mater, Durban University.  It is not usual to call yourself Professor publicly in those circumstances, is it?

 

I wonder where his funding comes from to run such an elaborate company.  He has just taken over a very swish HQ at Windlesham.  That wasn't paid for by selling T50 superfancars.

Edited by BRG, 29 December 2021 - 12:36.

[jonpollak]

Really enjoying this video.
Doing 30 min bites in-between Christmas duties etc.

I met both Steve and Gordon during the 4/3-4/4 time.
They were both charming and fascinating to listen to.
Jp

[Secretariat]

A look at the Gordon Murray Automotive website suggests you might be right.  He proudly terms himself Professor Gordon Murray CBE, but I believe that it was an Honorary Professorship from his alma mater, Durban University.  It is not usual to call yourself Professor publicly in those circumstances, is it?

 

I wonder where his funding comes from to run such an elaborate company.  He has just taken over a very swish HQ at Windlesham.  That wasn't paid for by selling T50 superfancars.

Do not know but I have causally followed Murray's progress on his T-50 in terms of the build on YT and when Retropower built him an Escort (wondered if he was head hunting talent). I have always like his energy and how he presents. As a side-note, the interesting thing about design is that inspiration can be had from many things, and concepts can be pioneered or borrowed/recycled.  Some examples, I believe Acura's LMP1 program pioneered use of the rear tire on the front, which became commonplace, the Tyrell high nose concept which became a design standard, the BT46 fan concept was rare but used previously by the likes of Jim Hall. However, this does not make a particular design any less amazing, ingenious, or simply more effective, then previous versions. It goes without saying the F1 is a masterpiece and T-50 so far appears to be worthy of that description too. 

[JordanIreland]

Clive James on F1 in 1995 Oz GP, love it:

[TennisUK]

Seems like an appropriate thread for this:

https://www.youtube....h?v=ZwKWQ9qIgSk

Last ever F1 victory for the original Team Lotus…