72 replies to this topic

[Singularity]

You have said that it was 'reported' that there was an agreement beforehand that the Safety Car could be used or treated differently in Abu Dhabi from how it had been used in previous races.

 

I am asking you what evidence you have that there was such an agreement about Safety Car usage specific ('special') to the Abu Dhabi race. If you have got some evidence, great - I'm sure we would all be interested in it. If you don't have any evidence, then no problem, but lacking any evidence it probably does not make sense for you to get into a debate trying to justify what you think was reported somewhere.

 

Eh? What are you on about? If I don't confuse you with someone else, you yourself has mentioned the Masi quote, or parts of it. A quick google give me:

 

 

 

During the stewards' hearing Masi said "that it had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car)."

It is in here: https://www.motorspo...-taste/6880828/

The part "highly desirable for the race" rather than "desirable for races to end" has led me to believe it was a specific agreement for Abu Dhabi. I have, of course no "evidence" that is is an actual quote from Masi or if Masi really had an agreement or just lied about it.

[shure]

but why not a red flag? I don't get it. Does it happen more often that we have a crane like the one that killed Bianchi on track while other drivers go full speed? I thought those days were over.

I don't know why not, but I don't see the relevance.  I answered a specific question and now you're adding caveats to it that weren't originally there. As Singularity wrote earlier, there's not much point having different threads if the answer to all of them is "why didn't he do xxx?"  This one is about whether the race would have been restarted in the same way had it been at some other point in the season, not why didn't he choose other options.

[f1kent83]

Until more comes to light about this agreement then it's just guessing because Masi is defending himself. Using words like "long been agreed" would mean a long time ago in my opinion, which could mean there is some sort of agreement which was made a long time ago for every race and that agreement was used for the race meaning Abu Dhabi and not meaning there was a special agreement just for the final race.

[shure]

Until more comes to light about this agreement then it's just guessing because Masi is defending himself. Using words like "long been agreed" would mean a long time ago in my opinion, which could mean there is some sort of agreement which was made a long time ago for every race and that agreement was used for the race meaning Abu Dhabi and not meaning there was a special agreement just for the final race.

agreed, although I’d say that it would have been either at the end of last year or sometime this year, since the behavior this year has been different. Wasn’t Baku similar? Not in terms of the exact process, but they called Red flag rather than let the SC run to the end there. Last year I seem to recall some SC complaints so probably a 2021 agreement, if I had to guess

[HeadFirst]

It's a bit close to Tim Henman. No one wants to be him.

 

Well he's not going to be the next James Bond, but I think he did okay otherwise.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Reading the title, immediately came to my mind:

Would Lewis Hamilton have taken out Max Verstappen at Silverstone, if Lewis had the point lead?

[TennisUK]

Brazil 2019 suggests a strong ‘no’. Just as in Abu Dhabi, there were not enough laps left so back markers were not allowed to overtake which provided 1 lap of racing.

[pacificquay]

Of course all this could have been avoided if they simply deleted the asinine rule about lapped cars ever being allowed to unlap in these circumstances.

 

They simply shouldn’t be. 

[MikeTekRacing]

Considering he red flagged baku and restarted it for 1 lap of racing - i think he would

[Requiem84]

Of course all this could have been avoided if they simply deleted the asinine rule about lapped cars ever being allowed to unlap in these circumstances.

 

They simply shouldn’t be. 

 

Instead of unlapping, why can't they go to the back of the cue by letting the other cars passed... That would make it so much faster and safer. 

[Deeq]

Instead of unlapping, why can't they go to the back of the cue by letting the other cars passed... That would make it so much faster and safer.

Yeah, F1 does stuff the hard way sometimes..simplest would be sorting by leting lead-lap cars by in place, not for backmarkers needing to speed the race- course all the way to the back of the que and wasting a potential greenlap.
Then give them - backmarkers - credit for 1 lap done..safer for all concerned.


PS
AFAIK fuelsample control dock them 1 Laps worth of fuel...

Edited by Deeq, 03 January 2022 - 09:14.

[LiJu914]

Recent RD-decisions, when a very late SC-period ocurred:

 

Brazil 2019: finish under green, cars not allowed to unlap themselves.

Bahrain 2020:  finish under SC

Baku 2021: no finish under SC, but a Red flag...followed by 2 laps under green (standing start)

Abu Dhabi 2021: finish under green, with some cars allowed to unlap themselves

 

 

The ways of the Masi are inscrutable.

Edited by LiJu914, 03 January 2022 - 09:19.

[Requiem84]

Yeah, F1 does stuff the hard way sometimes..simplest would be sorting by leting lead-lap cars by in place, not for backmarkers needing to speed the race- course all the way to the back of the que and wasting a potential greenlap.
Then give them - backmarkers - credit for 1 lap done..safer for all concerned.


PS
AFAIK fuelsample control dock them 1 Laps worth of fuel...

 

It's much safer as well because there wouldn't be cars speeding on the track at high speed to unlap themselves as soon as possible. 

 

Just mandate all lapped cars to move to the right hand side on the main straight and let the cars on the racing lap get passed... #easy solutions. 

[Clatter]

It's much safer as well because there wouldn't be cars speeding on the track at high speed to unlap themselves as soon as possible.

Just mandate all lapped cars to move to the right hand side on the main straight and let the cars on the racing lap get passed... #easy solutions.

It could also be done on a clear part of the track during the SC period, rather than having to wait for all repairs etc. To be done first.

[ensign14]

We know he doesn't, because he didn't.

[LiJu914]

It's much safer as well because there wouldn't be cars speeding on the track at high speed to unlap themselves as soon as possible. 

 

Just mandate all lapped cars to move to the right hand side on the main straight and let the cars on the racing lap get passed... #easy solutions. 

 

In that case the lapped cars (usually just lapped by 3-4 leading cars) would also be lapped by ALL other cars, which are still within the lead lap.

 

In very extreme scenarios that could mean, that a car is now suddenly lapped by another car, that was just a few seconds ahead before the SC.

[Requiem84]

In that case the lapped cars (usually just lapped by 3-4 leading cars) would also be lapped by ALL other cars, which are still within the lead lap.

In very extreme scenarios that could mean, that a car is now suddenly lapped by another car, that was just a few seconds ahead before the SC.

Lap could be given back…

[LiJu914]

Lap could be given back…

 

Sure; but in that case i´m not convinced this additional task for the RD (manually overriding the timing system) would actually contribute to speed things up, given how chaotic SC-incidents can be in the first place (incl. position shuffling due to pit stops etc.).

 

I think, letting cars unlap themselves on track but without the 1-lap-delay for green, would serve the same purpose.  One might say, Masi is a visionary.    

Edited by LiJu914, 03 January 2022 - 10:03.

[Requiem84]

Sure; but in that case i´m not convinced this additional task for the RD (manually overriding the timing system) would actually contribute to speed things up, given how chaotic a SC-incidents can be in the first place (incl. position shuffling due to pit stops etc.).

 

Surely that could be automated in 2022. 

 

After drivers have gone to the back of the grid all drivers should be on the same racing lap. Only issue is that the guys who went to the back of the grid have a small advantage: 1 extra lap of racing fuel compared to the guys who were on the same lap as the leader already. 

[P123]

Different pressures.  And it set a new precedent.  Therefore unlikely he'd do it were it at a 'normal' race.  He'd not have any earnest pleading from a C. Horner either.

[LiJu914]

Surely that could be automated in 2022. 

 

After drivers have gone to the back of the grid all drivers should be on the same racing lap. Only issue is that the guys who went to the back of the grid have a small advantage: 1 extra lap of racing fuel compared to the guys who were on the same lap as the leader already. 

 

With "manually" i meant, that someone has to activate some sort of override function within the code of the timing system. The timing system itself doesn´t "know", when every car is in the right on-track-position to correct the standings.

 

Before that goes underway, it would also be necessary to coordinate each driver´s exact fall back position.

Taking Abu Dhabi as an example it would´ve been necessary, that someone tells

- MSC to go to the end of the line (so far so easy)

- after MSC has fallen back, Stroll to fall back between Gasly and MSC

- after Stroll has fallen back, RIC to fall back between Gasly and Stroll

- and so on with VET, LEC, OCO, NOR

 

I doubt, that this procedure is really faster than all lapped cars just passing the SC and go green after that (as i mentioned in my last post: I don´t see the 1-lap-delay-rule as necessary).

Edited by LiJu914, 03 January 2022 - 10:44.

[Izzyeviel]

Of course all this could have been avoided if they simply deleted the asinine rule about lapped cars ever being allowed to unlap in these circumstances.

 

They simply shouldn’t be. 

 

There's his own Azerbaijan precedent which he created and then ignored.

 

& then theres this which has really peed me off. we've had this rule for years and years, we've lost hundreds of racing laps because of it, yet we had to endure it because it was 'essential to do so'. Turns out its not important after all.

[PayasYouRace]

We don’t need yet another thread for this. Furthermore, the poll isn’t adding any value to the discussion, just asking us to get in someone’s head.