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Alpine A522 (Technical Thread) 2022


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#1 Viryfan

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Posted 11 January 2022 - 09:46

Here is a picture of the prototype from the turbo?

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large


Edited by Viryfan, 11 January 2022 - 09:51.


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#2 dn12005

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Posted 11 January 2022 - 10:48

Is it the turbo? I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that it was the MGU-H...and not for sure if it's a design from previous seasons?


Edited by dn12005, 11 January 2022 - 10:48.


#3 TheAviator

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Posted 11 January 2022 - 11:32

Is it the turbo? I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that it was the MGU-H...and not for sure if it's a design from previous seasons?

Its turbo. Without compressor at the back, meaning its split turbo from the looks of it.

#4 Alburaq

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Posted 11 January 2022 - 11:45

Is it the turbo? I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that it was the MGU-H...and not for sure if it's a design from previous seasons?

 
It is a part of the turbo for sure. The workbench the turbo was placed on, says "Turbo" : )

And in the pictures that the Alpine press staff published (left), it was hidden by an engineer, but the Ministry of Labor press staff is the one who published this picture (right) 
 
Dunno if this a split turbo or just a disassembled classic turbo, and if this is the front side of a turbine or the front/back side of a compressor. 
The part looks different from the older Renault turbines/compressor .. their last compressors are usually silver and the turbine is dark metal... and this thing seems to have a single entry/exit (the red capped part on the right of this turbo piece...)
If it's a compressor, its intake (the part that is covered with the big red cylindrical cap) seems to be smaller than the Honda or Merc compressor...  :drunk:
 
https://www.italy24n.../eca93d17cf.jpg
 
https://i.redd.it/v550lytmq3r61.jpg
 
xm1w3x7.jpg

The other part looks more like an MGUK

dE8e144.jpeg


Edited by Alburaq, 11 January 2022 - 11:57.


#5 dn12005

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Posted 11 January 2022 - 13:21

Dang Alburaq, your 2nd paragraph is some deep dive analysis :up: 

 

So will definitely make a safe (or foolish...a matter of perspective) assumption that it is indeed new....as to why would they be showing the Minister an old design.



#6 Beri

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 08:29

Ah so that guy is a Minister. Was wondering who he was. 



#7 Viryfan

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 10:34

seems like jordan king is doing the bulk of testing on the sim for A522



#8 ARTGP

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Posted 13 January 2022 - 18:57

Strange, what happened to Kyvat?



#9 Viryfan

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 14:23

https://twitter.com/elliew317

 

car assembly is ongoing, at last they don't seem late, red bull will start their own next week



#10 lio007

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 20:38

https://twitter.com/elliew317

car assembly is ongoing, at last they don't seem late, red bull will start their own next week

Offtopic: where did you get the Red Bull Info?

#11 Neno

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 21:31

https://twitter.com/elliew317

 

car assembly is ongoing, at last they don't seem late, red bull will start their own next week

Only reason for some delay would be they found something late in development. Otherwise I dont get any reason to panic. 



#12 Viryfan

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 10:27

Offtopic: where did you get the Red Bull Info?

 

https://racingnews36...s-testing-plans

:wave:



#13 Beri

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 10:46

Only reason for some delay would be they found something late in development. Otherwise I dont get any reason to panic.


I can think of 10 other reasons as to why there would be a delay. All of them not being positive

#14 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 11:20

Technical team has been fairly stable so if the 2022 car had some serious flaws, I would imagine further sackings but this time from technical team.

#15 Beri

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 11:55

Heads do not roll that quickly. Remember Paddy Lowe at Williams? His head went on the chopping board when the season was already well underway. And this only after Ed Wood and Dirk de Beer legt some weeks earlier. It didn't happen during testing or during the launch period even if things were clear that the FW41 was a catastrophe before it was even assembled.

#16 Viryfan

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 12:40

https://twitter.com/...505176761319428

 

The car got fired up.

 

Things are not too late even though testing at Viry had to be managed and monitored due to covid cases regarding test bench teams...



#17 Ali_G

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 12:58

Am I right in saying that the engine is a new design compared to last year?

#18 MichaelPM

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 13:54



https://twitter.com/...505176761319428

 

The car got fired up.

 

Things are not too late even though testing at Viry had to be managed and monitored due to covid cases regarding test bench teams...

 

 

This is our very first 2022 fire-up.

No doubt it had many 2021 fire-ups, maybe even a 2020 fire-up?

I wonder what the date is for engine homologation, most likely the first race weekend so they could have different versions of components during winter testing and only have the final engine that weekend?

Best to go conservative and up the power throughout the year because it's more important to test the tyres/aero in 2022 before having to deal with any engine niggles that could limit mileage.



#19 jwill189

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 14:32

https://twitter.com/...505176761319428

 

The car got fired up.

 

Things are not too late even though testing at Viry had to be managed and monitored due to covid cases regarding test bench teams...

 

I'd like Alpine to upload a clean version of the audio. Too much static in the foreground.



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#20 Goron3

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 15:52

No doubt it had many 2021 fire-ups, maybe even a 2020 fire-up?

I wonder what the date is for engine homologation, most likely the first race weekend so they could have different versions of components during winter testing and only have the final engine that weekend?

Best to go conservative and up the power throughout the year because it's more important to test the tyres/aero in 2022 before having to deal with any engine niggles that could limit mileage.

I believe homologation date is 1st March.



#21 Alburaq

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 06:08

Am I right in saying that the engine is a new design compared to last year?

 

Last year engine is basically the same as 2020 and 2019. So yes the 2022 design is a fully new design in many ways according to the team: 
 

 

What about the new 2022 engine? Will it mark the technological breakthrough often mentioned by Cyril Abiteboul?

 
I'm not going to go into detail. We have an engine that will change drastically compared to this year's, both in terms of technical definition and operating conditions. Why do I say that? Because it's going to have an impact on the single-seater, the chassis, typically the sizing of the coolers and so on. So this engine is going to be eminently different from the current engine, that's for sure.
 
Rossi 2021

 

 

We are really waiting for 2022, we have frozen the engine to work on the next engine next year, which will not only be more powerful, but also with characteristics that will allow us to make a different chassis, on cooling, aerodynamics, weight. Prost 2021

 

 

... our new power unit, which, in addition to improvements in propulsion power and energy management, the usual stuff that makes you go faster in a straight line, also includes a new architecture and changes to address some of our weaknesses compared to our competitors. Budkowski 2021

 

 

"I expect two things to make the difference: the engine, but also the installation, everything that is cooling policy. These are things where we are very advanced. We have invested a lot. We couldn't do it on the current generation of cars because it was too late, but there are going to be big breakthroughs." Abiteboul 2019

 

 

But everything changes, we had an aerodynamic handicap because of the engine architecture...  And we will change the engine architecture, we will separate the turbo from the electric, and we will have a much thinner engine that will allow us to gain points in aerodynamics. De Meo

 

 

Viry's efforts, already looking ahead to 2022, are now focused on cooling and installing the engine in the chassis.

 
On the track," explains our contact, "we introduce a quantity of fuel into the engine that produces a little more than 1200 kW [power equivalent to 100 kg/h of gasoline]. Of this 1200 kW, about 600 kW comes out of the crankshaft, since the efficiency of the engine is 50%. This leaves another 600 kW. Of these 600 kW, 200 kW are taken from the turbine: part is used to compress the air (the compressor) and part is recovered by the MGU-H. Of the remaining 400 kW, 200 to 300 kW goes to the exhaust, which is 'stupidly' dispersed energy."
 
"The balance, about 150 kW, is dissipated into the car's coolants: engine water, transmission and hydraulic system oil, etc. If we were able to make the engine work at higher temperatures, we could reduce the surface area of the radiators (thus lowering drag), or even adopt architectures that would restrict the types of fluid and homogenize their temperatures."
 
"The [2022] engine will be very different," concludes Rémi Taffin. We will significantly change the architecture, taking advantage of the fact that everyone will be starting from scratch." 
Taffin 2019

Edited by Alburaq, 22 January 2022 - 06:16.


#22 ARTGP

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 10:08

https://twitter.com/...505176761319428

 

The car got fired up.

 

 

Getting it started has never been Viry's problem   :p .


Edited by ARTGP, 22 January 2022 - 10:12.


#23 Viryfan

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 10:23

Getting it started has never been Viry's problem   :p .

 

well at last the build up is not cahotic, it is about the same lead time than A521 before first test and way earlier than the Rs20,Rs19 or RS18 relative to first test


Edited by Viryfan, 22 January 2022 - 10:26.


#24 Alburaq

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 08:59

RNPbBRa.jpg
 

https://actu.fr/ile-...n_45508951.html

 

parody-adult-swim.gif

 

gyfTUnF.jpg

 

 

Power Unit: RE22A

Fuel consumption: 0.2kg/h

Max RPM: 360000RPM

Horsepower: over 9000hp at 0,01RPM


Edited by Alburaq, 23 January 2022 - 09:00.


#25 MichaelPM

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:15

Power Unit: RE22A

Fuel consumption: 0.2kg/h

Max RPM: 360000RPM

Horsepower: over 9000hp at 0,01RPM

 

Engineer: Unfortunately we overreached and ended up making a beast of an engine that no human could possibly drive, we will have to use the 2019 engine again

Alonso: Stick the new engine in the car. I look forward to seeing you on the podium.



#26 Anja

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 13:28

Launch on February 21!



#27 Viryfan

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 13:51

Launch on February 21!

 

looking at the day and the place, i'm pretty sure it will be just a CGI launch 



#28 jwill189

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 14:32

looking at the day and the place, i'm pretty sure it will be just a CGI launch 

 

That makes me nervous if the car will be ready before pre-season testing.



#29 DRSwing

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 15:11

That makes me nervous if the car will be ready before pre-season testing.

 

Me too. Saw a rumor that they will only be testing the new engine on an old car for the first test, and debut the whole package in the second test. Hopefully it’s not true.



#30 Viryfan

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 15:47

Me too. Saw a rumor that they will only be testing the new engine on an old car for the first test, and debut the whole package in the second test. Hopefully it’s not true.

 

this is bullshit



#31 crespo

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 21:49

this is bullshit

Is this an angry "this is bullshit!!" kind of thing, or is it a statement expressing doubt towards the rumor...?



#32 Viryfan

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 22:53

Is this an angry "this is bullshit!!" kind of thing, or is it a statement expressing doubt towards the rumor...?

 

The car is being fired up one month before the first test, the build up will be completed way in time for the test unless something drastic comes up.

 

There is no logical reason why they would invest in a mule car, with a new monocoque.

 

The main piece of news i have is that on dyno they're still playing catch up with the RE22 .



#33 aray

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 06:40

The car is being fired up one month before the first test, the build up will be completed way in time for the test unless something drastic comes up.

 

There is no logical reason why they would invest in a mule car, with a new monocoque.

 

The main piece of news i have is that on dyno they're still playing catch up with the RE22 .

RE 22 new engine ?



#34 Alburaq

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 08:30

RE 22 new engine ?

 

facepalm.png



#35 Goron3

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 10:37

Man, I'm so hyped. I just want to see Fernando in a capable car once again. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do.

 

Of course, it all starts with a competitive PU.



#36 Alburaq

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 11:14

The car is being fired up one month before the first test, the build up will be completed way in time for the test unless something drastic comes up.

 

There is no logical reason why they would invest in a mule car, with a new monocoque.

 

The main piece of news i have is that on dyno they're still playing catch up with the RE22 .

 

I suppose you mean they are very busy with the reliability work ?

That's more or less what team members and Prost said lately. (The PU isnt stable yet)
AMuS: The test bench results confirm all the targets. "If we can get the engine stable, we'll make a big leap," says the team.

And Rossi seems to be confident:
“I think we have good development on the engine side – different [development], which was necessary – good development on the power side. car. We are sticking to the program we have set ourselves for the start of the year.”“And that brings us closer, maybe not to the level of the top teams, but we don’t know,” 

“Because we assume that if we gain so many aero points, kilowatts and electrical energy deployment, we will reduce the gap between the best and us, assuming that the best will continue to improve.”

35hp is not that big a deficit for a 3 years old PU. But to catch the best PU, Renault must obviously find much more than 35hp, because the others wont stand still. And knowing that Viry has gained 30hp on average every year between 2014 and 2019, with a 50hp and 60hp spike in 2016 and 2019, I think Renault can do it with this fully new and much more efficient PU that aims to optimise every area of an older PU that barely changed in 3 seasons, and find 35 +35 hp = 190hp : )


Edited by Alburaq, 27 January 2022 - 11:23.


#37 eREr

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 13:08

I don't get this. The new PU was more or less ready to be introduced in A521 a year ago. And are they still stabilizing it?

Maybe because of the change from E5 to E10?


Edited by eREr, 27 January 2022 - 13:09.


#38 Alburaq

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 13:51

The E10 change was scheduled a long time ago. But the engine freeze change wasnt. It has been advanced and became more drastic.

 

So the initial RE21 and RE22 PU are probably very different from the current RE.

In 2020 Viry was initially planning to introduce a baseline version of their new PU in 2022, and an aggressive B version in 2023. Then, early in 2021, the engine freeze has been advanced (from 2023 to 2022) 

So as far as I understand

-between 2018-2019 and 2020 Renault worked on RE21

-then covid came in 2020

-so RE21 has been pushed to 2022 and became RE22, and had a successor called RE23

-then the freeze schedule changed in 2021
-so RE22 became RE22xRE23 


Edited by Alburaq, 27 January 2022 - 14:05.


#39 Neno

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 14:05

I suppose you mean they are very busy with the reliability work ?

That's more or less what team members and Prost said lately. (The PU isnt stable yet)
AMuS: The test bench results confirm all the targets. "If we can get the engine stable, we'll make a big leap," says the team.

And Rossi seems to be confident:
“I think we have good development on the engine side – different [development], which was necessary – good development on the power side. car. We are sticking to the program we have set ourselves for the start of the year.”“And that brings us closer, maybe not to the level of the top teams, but we don’t know,” 

“Because we assume that if we gain so many aero points, kilowatts and electrical energy deployment, we will reduce the gap between the best and us, assuming that the best will continue to improve.”

35hp is not that big a deficit for a 3 years old PU. But to catch the best PU, Renault must obviously find much more than 35hp, because the others wont stand still. And knowing that Viry has gained 30hp on average every year between 2014 and 2019, with a 50hp and 60hp spike in 2016 and 2019, I think Renault can do it with this fully new and much more efficient PU that aims to optimise every area of an older PU that barely changed in 3 seasons, and find 35 +35 hp = 190hp : )

We forget that Renault power unit was beast during 2020. Renault had no disadvantages of any kind on power tracks with that unit. And if anything was competitive enough to get podiums. So other manufacturers gained around 35HP over next two years for Renault to have deficit. Lets also not forget that Renault would never announce officially how competitive their new engine is going to be. Giving a freeze is happening they likely targeting some absurd numbers like getting 70HP over their 3 year old unit. They need to get minimum 35HP to get on level in 2021 engines and ofcourse  targeting improvement over that, which they presume all those 2021 engines  are going to get for 2022. 

 

So it's no wonder they having some reliability issues on dyno giving they dont only have completely new engine arhitecture  with likely specific cooling design for 2022 regulations, but also targeting massive engine power improvement before freeze happening giving they are allowed bringing fixing reliability during freeze. If they didnt had any issues I would have being suprised. 



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#40 Braai52

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 14:05

Anyone know what this "Small Reliability" engine problem is?

Is this problem preventing the engine from completing say 5 or 4 or 3 race distances or one???



#41 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 15:09

Looking at the thread, I have to say:

 

7cc.gif



#42 Neno

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 15:17

Man, I'm so hyped. I just want to see Fernando in a capable car once again. Really looking forward to seeing what he can do.

 

Of course, it all starts with a competitive PU.

I am hyped and scared. Because this is truly last time Fernando will get a chance to have capable car. I am pretty sure if car is bad he is gonna retire and Alpine/Renault will be main reason for it. Because let be real he still has it. And this is second time he is betting on Renault to get it together. First time in 2009 with regulation changes and that was utter dog of the car. 



#43 Anja

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 15:21

Looking at the thread, I have to say:

 

7cc.gif

 

You mean the Alonso Curse?  :p



#44 Viryfan

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 15:58

I suppose you mean they are very busy with the reliability work ?

That's more or less what team members and Prost said lately. (The PU isnt stable yet)
AMuS: The test bench results confirm all the targets. "If we can get the engine stable, we'll make a big leap," says the team.

And Rossi seems to be confident:
“I think we have good development on the engine side – different [development], which was necessary – good development on the power side. car. We are sticking to the program we have set ourselves for the start of the year.”“And that brings us closer, maybe not to the level of the top teams, but we don’t know,” 

“Because we assume that if we gain so many aero points, kilowatts and electrical energy deployment, we will reduce the gap between the best and us, assuming that the best will continue to improve.”

35hp is not that big a deficit for a 3 years old PU. But to catch the best PU, Renault must obviously find much more than 35hp, because the others wont stand still. And knowing that Viry has gained 30hp on average every year between 2014 and 2019, with a 50hp and 60hp spike in 2016 and 2019, I think Renault can do it with this fully new and much more efficient PU that aims to optimise every area of an older PU that barely changed in 3 seasons, and find 35 +35 hp = 190hp : )

 

they are late on schedule and what they want to achieve as dyno work is disrupted.

 

omicron situation in france since christmas is clearly not helping the work on dyno with the day and night sessions.



#45 Viryfan

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 16:00

fact is that they far enough down the road in order to deliver the pu in order to complete build up one month before first test but validation phase on dyno is not quite there yet.



#46 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 27 January 2022 - 16:39

You mean the Alonso Curse?  :p

 

memi-foto-tears-crying-meme-axe-hand-ani


Edited by RainyAfterlifeDaylight, 27 January 2022 - 16:40.


#47 vista

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:43

I am hyped and scared. Because this is truly last time Fernando will get a chance to have capable car. I am pretty sure if car is bad he is gonna retire and Alpine/Renault will be main reason for it. Because let be real he still has it. And this is second time he is betting on Renault to get it together. First time in 2009 with regulation changes and that was utter dog of the car. 

 

Alonso has had an awful year whenever mayor regulation changes happened in the last decade or so: 2009 renault, 2014 Ferrari, 2017 Mclaren. Let's hope this year is better :)



#48 levi1700

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:56

2009: the Renault was a dog of a car.
2014: The engine was limited in power and frozen, and couldn’t be developed trough the year.
2017: The chassis wasn’t that bad (mexican qualify), but Honda came with a new engine concept and was very unreliable and lacking power, what resulted in the McLaren
Honda split.
Hopefully Alonso will have better luck this season!

#49 vista

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 10:03

2009: the Renault was a dog of a car.
2014: The engine was limited in power and frozen, and couldn’t be developed trough the year.
2017: The chassis wasn’t that bad (mexican qualify), but Honda came with a new engine concept and was very unreliable and lacking power, what resulted in the McLaren
Honda split.
Hopefully Alonso will have better luck this season!

 

As far as I remember, the chassis also wasn't good, but that realization only came when switching to Renault engines?



#50 Gambelli

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 11:40

Alonso has had an awful year whenever mayor regulation changes happened in the last decade or so: 2009 renault, 2014 Ferrari, 2017 Mclaren. Let's hope this year is better :)

 

Then hopefully we can say statistically he is due for a good one!