Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

2022 F1 Season: Rumors and Reading Tea Leaves


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#1 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 21:23

First bit of gossip about who is happy and who isn't heading into the 2022 season.

 

Red Bull has reportedly lost performance in their 2022 power unit due to the switch from E5 to E10 fuel, while Ferrari and Alpine have reportedly aced the fuel switch:

 

https://racingnews36...-it-was-in-2021

 

Here's a snippet from the article, hope I'm not violating any rules with a few lines from the piece:

 

 

"Red Bull's new 2022 power unit, produced and manufactured by Honda, is yet to match the power output of the 2021 version, according to reports in German media."

 

"Power outputs are estimated to drop by around 20 horsepower, although Ferrari and Alpine have both reportedly already compensated for the power loss."

 

"Honda are, reportedly, not quite at that same level of optimism just yet. According to Helmut Marko, the new power unit is yet to match the power output of the 2021 units, but progress is being made."

 



Advertisement

#2 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 5,797 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 16 January 2022 - 22:48

First bit of gossip about who is happy and who isn't heading into the 2022 season.

 

Red Bull has reportedly lost performance in their 2022 power unit due to the switch from E5 to E10 fuel, while Ferrari and Alpine have reportedly aced the fuel switch:

 

https://racingnews36...-it-was-in-2021

 

Here's a snippet from the article, hope I'm not violating any rules with a few lines from the piece:

 

Brilliant topic Squeed. May this be the topic of the pre-season and beyond!



#3 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 4,082 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:02

Great topic, I don’t want RBR to lose out tbh because max needs to be in the fight but I’m happy to welcome Ferrari and Alpine to the front if they are there. Merc have been suspiciously lacking in any news haven’t they? But I can’t imagine anything other than equal fastest, close second at worst.

#4 ARTGP

ARTGP
  • Member

  • 19,653 posts
  • Joined: March 19

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:05

 

“I’m hearing a lot of positive moves out of Ferrari, a lot of positive noises out of Ferrari,” said pit-lane broadcaster Kravitz during Sky F1’s latest programme reflecting on the controversial events of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

“The engine’s going well and they say the car is looking much more aggressive than it has in any of the recent Ferraris we’ve seen over the last two or three years.”

https://www.planetf1...rrari-optimism/

 

I know Ferrari optimism is a bit of a poisoned chalice for some but...



#5 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:08

https://www.planetf1...rrari-optimism/

 

I know Ferrari optimism is a bit of a poisoned chalice for some but...

 

The return of Jean Todt's understated charisma is reportedly worth 15hp.  



#6 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 6,972 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:16

I don’t want RBR to lose out tbh because max needs to be in the fight

Well he doesn't *need* to be, does he? ;)

Actually come to think of it, that would be an interesting proposition. Verstappen in the midfield, having to fight just for scraps. How he'd handle that would be fascinating.

#7 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:17

Well he doesn't *need* to be, does he?  ;)

Actually come to think of it, that would be an interesting proposition. Verstappen in the midfield, having to fight just for scraps. How he'd handle that would be fascinating.

 

We'll finally get the Bottas vs. Verstappen head-to-head battles that we've all been craving. 


Edited by Squeed, 16 January 2022 - 23:18.


#8 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 37,217 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:19

Thanks Squeed .

 

 Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

 

Peter Windsor.

 

I still follow his assessments and observations of the situation.

This one seems on the money to me.

 

 

Jp



#9 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 2,577 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:32

Well he doesn't *need* to be, does he? ;)

Actually come to think of it, that would be an interesting proposition. Verstappen in the midfield, having to fight just for scraps. How he'd handle that would be fascinating.


I hope Verstappen, Alonso and Leclerc will be fighting at or near the front because they spice it up and make things happen. Throw in Russel and Norris in as well. Have seen enough from Hamilton or Vettel at the front after all these years. Would love too see Hamilton fighting for scraps for once in his career like Alonso has been doing for the last 6 seasons. Thats also the biggest travesty of the hybrid era, that some great drivers like Alonso couldn’t show there worth.

#10 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:35

I hope Verstappen, Alonso and Leclerc will be fighting at or near the front because they spice it up and make things happen. Throw in Russel and Norris in as well. Have seen enough from Hamilton or Vettel at the front after all these years. Would love too see Hamilton fighting for scraps for once in his career like Alonso has been doing for the last 6 seasons. Thats also the biggest travesty of the hybrid era, that some great drivers like Alonso couldn’t show there worth.

 

It would be amazing if we get back to the WDC winning 6ish races w/ another 5-6 multiple race winning drivers in the season. 


Edited by Squeed, 16 January 2022 - 23:36.


#11 YamahaV10

YamahaV10
  • Member

  • 905 posts
  • Joined: June 21

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:38

Well he doesn't *need* to be, does he?  ;)

Actually come to think of it, that would be an interesting proposition. Verstappen in the midfield, having to fight just for scraps. How he'd handle that would be fascinating.

How about not making another thread about hamilton vs verstappen pot shots ?



#12 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 2,577 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:41

It would be amazing if we get back to the WDC winning 6ish races w/ another 5-6 multiple race winning drivers in the season.


Completely agree. Even Hamilton in that situation winning a couple would be fine then😜. I just don’t want another 2002, 2004, 2011, 2013, 2019, 2020.

#13 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:43

How about not making another thread about hamilton vs verstappen pot shots ?

 

Max in the midfield would be fascinating.  Hamilton's worse season in F1 was the year when the McLaren was nowhere on many race weekends and he started over-driving it.  

Let's not breathe life into a "Driver A is great, Driver B sucks" narrative. 



#14 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:44

Completely agree. Even Hamilton in that situation winning a couple would be fine then😜. I just don’t want another 2002, 2004, 2011, 2013, 2019, 2020.

 

Let no one accuse you of a lack of charity  :lol:



#15 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 6,238 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:52

I hope Verstappen, Alonso and Leclerc will be fighting at or near the front because they spice it up and make things happen. Throw in Russel and Norris in as well. Have seen enough from Hamilton or Vettel at the front after all these years. Would love too see Hamilton fighting for scraps for once in his career like Alonso has been doing for the last 6 seasons. Thats also the biggest travesty of the hybrid era, that some great drivers like Alonso couldn’t show there worth.

You may have contradicting wishes.
 

But the good news is that almost certainly one of those two things will happen, because Mercedes will either be a frontrunner or not. :p



#16 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 24,940 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 16 January 2022 - 23:56

Max in the midfield would be fascinating.  Hamilton's worse season in F1 was the year when the McLaren was nowhere on many race weekends and he started over-driving it.  

 

And that actually lasted only half a season.



#17 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 6,972 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:00

I hope Verstappen, Alonso and Leclerc will be fighting at or near the front because they spice it up and make things happen. Throw in Russel and Norris in as well.

I agree. The more elite drivers we have in race winning cars, fighting up front, all the better. I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek  ;)

How about not making another thread about hamilton vs verstappen pot shots ?

Don't jump to conclusions whatever you do.

#18 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 2,577 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:05

You may have contradicting wishes.

But the good news is that almost certainly one of those two things will happen, because Mercedes will either be a frontrunner or not. :p


Uhm got me😂😂 i still had the Williams Russel in mind. Still need to get used to see him in a Merc.

#19 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 2,577 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:09

Max in the midfield would be fascinating. Hamilton's worse season in F1 was the year when the McLaren was nowhere on many race weekends and he started over-driving it.
Let's not breathe life into a "Driver A is great, Driver B sucks" narrative.


I still revisit the 2009 season sometimes. Most cars whitin a second in qualifying. Brilliant. I don’t know if its allowed on here but i can share a link where you can rewatch free practice, qualifying and races from the 2000-2009 era. Also Btcc from the 90’s and rally. Made me realize that Hakkinen almost didn’t age and how Dc does.

Advertisement

#20 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:10

And that actually lasted only half a season.

 

A big part of his story as a driver is his transformation from that moment in his career to the focused beast he is today. 



#21 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:10

I still revisit the 2009 season sometimes. Most cars whitin a second in qualifying. Brilliant. I don’t know if its allowed on here but i can share a link where you can rewatch free practice, qualifying and races from the 2000-2009 era. Also Btcc from the 90’s and rally. Made me realize that Hakkinen almost didn’t age and how Dc does.

 

Yes please!  PM if you're concerned about rules. 



#22 PlayboyRacer

PlayboyRacer
  • Member

  • 6,972 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:12

Yes please! PM if you're concerned about rules.

Me too. That would be brilliant, cheers!

#23 Gary Davies

Gary Davies
  • Member

  • 5,756 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:13

Thanks Squeed .

 

 Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

 

Peter Windsor.

 

I still follow his assessments and observations of the situation.

This one seems on the money to me.

 

 

Jp

Thanks jp. Some good points by Windsor, hard to refute. And I don't wish to refute them but there is the other side of the coin.

 

  • For most of 2021, we heard that Mercedes was not developing the car but working on the 2022 car. Red Bull, by contrast, was going all out for the 2021 championship. So... is there any logic in wondering if Mercedes might have a more developed 2022 car? I dunno.
  • Engines. Red Bull will be kinda on their own this year. Will they nail the power train equation as well as Mercedes?
  • And Russell. A long shot this one but in light of the way Hamilton was undone at Abu Dhabi and Wolff's obvious fury, might Toto be saying to Russell that whilst all bets will be off in 2023, there is a score to settle in 2022, so he's got to accept being the wingman for this year?


#24 YamahaV10

YamahaV10
  • Member

  • 905 posts
  • Joined: June 21

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:29

Max in the midfield would be fascinating.  Hamilton's worse season in F1 was the year when the McLaren was nowhere on many race weekends and he started over-driving it.  

Let's not breathe life into a "Driver A is great, Driver B sucks" narrative. 

Lewis Hamilton being the #2 driver at Mercedes would be fascinating too. George Russel is a top 3 prospect in the world going to the best team in the modern era.



#25 thefinalapex

thefinalapex
  • Member

  • 2,577 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 00:36

@squeed and @playboyracer i will send you the link in the morning.

#26 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 01:07

Lewis Hamilton being the #2 driver at Mercedes would be fascinating too. George Russel is a top 3 prospect in the world going to the best team in the modern era.

 

you just can't help yourself can you? 



#27 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 01:12

 

Thanks jp. Some good points by Windsor, hard to refute. And I don't wish to refute them but there is the other side of the coin.

 

  • For most of 2021, we heard that Mercedes was not developing the car but working on the 2022 car. Red Bull, by contrast, was going all out for the 2021 championship. So... is there any logic in wondering if Mercedes might have a more developed 2022 car? I dunno.
  • Engines. Red Bull will be kinda on their own this year. Will they nail the power train equation as well as Mercedes?
  • And Russell. A long shot this one but in light of the way Hamilton was undone at Abu Dhabi and Wolff's obvious fury, might Toto be saying to Russell that whilst all bets will be off in 2023, there is a score to settle in 2022, so he's got to accept being the wingman for this year?

 

 

I think it's not impossible that some version of this type of deal making could go on where a tight point race after the first 5 races could trigger an early backing of Hamilton. But it would be tricky, and it would be contrary to mental makeup of a future WDC. 



#28 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 4,082 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 17 January 2022 - 01:30

Thanks Squeed .

Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

Peter Windsor.

I still follow his assessments and observations of the situation.
This one seems on the money to me.

https://www.youtube....h?v=mk-umverx9A

Jp

I really like Windsor and he is one of the F1 journalists that I rate pretty highly and listen to everything he has to say closely, indeed here he makes some reasonable points especially about the wind tunnel time and Russell being a relative unknown for Lewis (even though he goes on to say that we know what George is). However, I do think he gives Lewis not enough credit, the potential easier to overtake thing with these cars will not negate Lewis as much as he makes out imo and Lewis will be able to showcase his defensive ability. Also I think he overstates the advantage red bull will have, imo Merc are still the best team on the grid in terms of putting a package together.

It’s going to be interesting though, it’s certainly up in the air isn’t it.

On others - I’d love a Lewis vs Alonso title fight and then both to have their final year in the sport, close that chapter as it began.

#29 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 8,844 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 17 January 2022 - 01:36

 Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

 

Wonder if he ever thought about starting an F1 team?...



#30 TradeMark

TradeMark
  • Member

  • 358 posts
  • Joined: June 16

Posted 17 January 2022 - 07:52

First bit of gossip about who is happy and who isn't heading into the 2022 season.

Red Bull has reportedly lost performance in their 2022 power unit due to the switch from E5 to E10 fuel, while Ferrari and Alpine have reportedly aced the fuel switch:

https://racingnews36...-it-was-in-2021

Here's a snippet from the article, hope I'm not violating any rules with a few lines from the piece:

The new fuel will cost all of them around 20bhp so it's not very newsworthy then that it costs Honda 20 bhp. It's known that it'll cost all of them some power. This article says nothing about whom it will cost more or less.

#31 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 4,390 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 17 January 2022 - 09:41

Is there any news from Alpine and Ferrari about their PU performances, about the loss of the output?

#32 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 8,089 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 17 January 2022 - 09:51

Wonder if he ever thought about starting an F1 team?...

 

Maybe he could do something like a national British team. UK F1 has a ring to it. 



#33 taran

taran
  • Member

  • 3,837 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:41

Maybe he could do something like a national British team. UK F1 has a ring to it. 

 

I can see you are just trying to take the piss but this is a guy who has worked in F1 for decades, clearly loves the sport and even tried to enter with his own team. While the latter effort was a complete shambles, does he really deserve such scorn a decade later?



#34 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 37,217 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:45

Maybe he could do something like a national British team. UK F1 has a ring to it.

I only have one word for those touting a national F1team.

Toast.

Jp

#35 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 14,530 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:46

Thanks Squeed .

 

 Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

 

Peter Windsor.

 

I still follow his assessments and observations of the situation.

This one seems on the money to me.

 

 

Jp

 

Peter Windsor can sit in his flat in West London and predict what will happen at races better than most people trackside ... the amount knowledge and understanding of the sport that he has is just ridiculous 



#36 r4mses

r4mses
  • Member

  • 2,143 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:52

The return of Jean Todt's understated charisma is reportedly worth 15hp.  

 

how does this translate into tenths?

 

are 15 TodtHP equal to 6 ALOtenths?



#37 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 47,862 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:22

how does this translate into tenths?

 

are 15 TodtHP equal to 6 ALOtenths?

 

It depends how usable Todt's charisma is on the powerband I think. You don't want that ability to inspire and influence people to spike at high RPMs.



#38 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 8,089 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:41

I can see you are just trying to take the piss but this is a guy who has worked in F1 for decades, clearly loves the sport and even tried to enter with his own team. While the latter effort was a complete shambles, does he really deserve such scorn a decade later?

 

That's fair. But let's not forget his credibility took a further hit when he sold out to Rich Energy at a point in that saga when it was already highly suspicious, which is worse than any little joke I write here. 



#39 Lotusse7en

Lotusse7en
  • Member

  • 268 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:41

Thanks Squeed .

 

 Nigel Mansell had this 'public affairs' guy / team manager...way back when.

 

Peter Windsor.

 

I still follow his assessments and observations of the situation.

This one seems on the money to me.

 

 

Jp

Could that be a "popular tree" over his right shoulder ? :smoking:



Advertisement

#40 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 23,407 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 17 January 2022 - 16:04

I can see you are just trying to take the piss but this is a guy who has worked in F1 for decades, clearly loves the sport and even tried to enter with his own team. While the latter effort was a complete shambles, does he really deserve such scorn a decade later?

The US F1 fiasco might have been wearing off, but then Windsor decided to repeat it by joining in with William Storey's Rich Energy fantasy and to help peddle another set of lies, half-truths and nonsense.  So it is his own fault if his reputation remains in the crapper.



#41 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 47,862 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 17 January 2022 - 16:06

I'm seeing a lot of articles suggesting/implying that Ferrari have turned it around and will be strong in 2022. Mind you I also remember similar articles about Renault in 2010 and 2011 was not much of a year for them (though Petrov did get on the podium, which was no small achievement).

 

Is there anything to the notion that Ferrari will have a much better year in 2022?



#42 Astandahl

Astandahl
  • Member

  • 3,876 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 17 January 2022 - 16:45

Is there any news from Alpine and Ferrari about their PU performances, about the loss of the output?

https://www.formu1a....-super-leggera/

 

Best source for Ferrari stuff. Must be translated from italian.



#43 Astandahl

Astandahl
  • Member

  • 3,876 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 17 January 2022 - 16:47

I'm seeing a lot of articles suggesting/implying that Ferrari have turned it around and will be strong in 2022. Mind you I also remember similar articles about Renault in 2010 and 2011 was not much of a year for them (though Petrov did get on the podium, which was no small achievement).

 

Is there anything to the notion that Ferrari will have a much better year in 2022?

It's impossible to say where Ferrari will be, just like every other team. The main reasons why Ferrari struggled so much in the last two years isn't related to the quality of the team itself, but the lack of political power and the decision to bet on the (at the time) 2021 rules.



#44 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 23,407 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 17 January 2022 - 17:25

I'm seeing a lot of articles suggesting/implying that Ferrari have turned it around and will be strong in 2022. 

Don't we hear that every year about this time. going back to Enzo's days.  Then the car hits the track and..........



#45 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:00

Is there any news from Alpine and Ferrari about their PU performances, about the loss of the output?

Ferrari says they have not only recovered the 20hp deficit, they have also found additional hp compared to the PU they finished 2021 with.

They are not sure if that means they are completely on par with the Merc and Honda 2021 PUs or not, however, and of course reliability is going to be an issue for all of the teams with the new fuel.  

 

https://racingnews36...rom-fuel-change


Edited by Squeed, 17 January 2022 - 18:05.


#46 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:02

The US F1 fiasco might have been wearing off, but then Windsor decided to repeat it by joining in with William Storey's Rich Energy fantasy and to help peddle another set of lies, half-truths and nonsense.  So it is his own fault if his reputation remains in the crapper.

 

Starting a new F1 team based in Charlotte, NC, USA was a nearly flawless plan, they had obviously thought through all of the details very thoroughly.  I can’t imagine what could have possible gone wrong. 



#47 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:20

Prost is reportedly leaving Alpine after they declined to renew his contract

 

https://racingnews36...ays-with-alpine



#48 Secretariat

Secretariat
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:32

Starting a new F1 team based in Charlotte, NC, USA was a nearly flawless plan, they had obviously thought through all of the details very thoroughly.  I can’t imagine what could have possible gone wrong. 

To be fair, Haas F1's home is in NC and a European base of ops in England. The vaporware of US F1 was also to have a base in Europe via Spain. At least that part was thought about back then. As for tea leaves, I think Haas will be interesting team to observe this upcoming season.



#49 Squeed

Squeed
  • Member

  • 1,943 posts
  • Joined: February 17

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:49

To be fair, Haas F1's home is in NC and a European base of ops in England. The vaporware of US F1 was also to have a base in Europe via Spain. At least that part was thought about back then. As for tea leaves, I think Haas will be interesting team to observe this upcoming season.

Dallara has a lot of experience with ground effects aero, it would be amazing to see them battling inside the top 10. 



#50 Secretariat

Secretariat
  • Member

  • 396 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 17 January 2022 - 18:54

Dallara has a lot of experience with ground effects aero, it would be amazing to see them battling inside the top 10. 

True. Seems they suffered alongside Ferrari with the PU and the choice to forgo development made them look worse then they actually are in my opinion. I think we will see at least one car getting some points in 2022. 


Edited by Secretariat, 17 January 2022 - 18:55.