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McLaren - 2022 team thread


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#3151 frosty125

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 13:17

We need a new multi billionaire investor so we can bring the engine in house like Red Bull and hire a world class TP and Designer, preferably Newey. Perhaps entice the Saudis? PIF are on a spending spree at the moment. 

What's the point? Engine isn't much of a differentiator these days and McLaren are already up against the spending caps, you can't just throw money at the problem these days. You need to be smart.

 

 

I Seidl has done for McLaren what Ross did for Mercedes and setup the structure and investment for future success even if that happens after they depart.



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#3152 Quickshifter

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 14:21

Btw, Mclaren will save some cash with this for car development. Yes Stella will get a raise but still Mclaren can reroute some cash towards car development. Every penny counts with the budget cap in place.

Edited by Quickshifter, 14 December 2022 - 14:22.


#3153 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 14:49

Btw, Mclaren will save some cash with this for car development. Yes Stella will get a raise but still Mclaren can reroute some cash towards car development. Every penny counts with the budget cap in place.

 

Just watch catering not spiking.



#3154 Lazy

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 16:33

I'm hearing that Audi engines for McLaren could be part of the deal.

#3155 RedRabbit

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 17:19

Btw, Mclaren will save some cash with this for car development. Yes Stella will get a raise but still Mclaren can reroute some cash towards car development. Every penny counts with the budget cap in place.


Wouldn't Stella just take Seidl's place as one of the excluded top earners?

#3156 RedRabbit

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 17:20

I'm hearing that Audi engines for McLaren could be part of the deal.


Nobody knows yet how good the Audi unit will be.

#3157 Clrnc

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 18:34

It's quite telling that Ferrari approached Seidl first before Vasseur. Speaks volume about how good a job he has done to turn Mclaren's fortunes around



#3158 GreenMachine

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 20:12

It's quite telling that Ferrari approached Seidl first before Vasseur. Speaks volume about how good a job he has done to turn Mclaren's fortunes around

 

sauce?



#3159 f1rules

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Posted 14 December 2022 - 21:36

I wish it was his time at mclaren that gave him all credibility/high value, but honestly he did what was to be expected, not extraordinary amazing, so his high value is from previous jobs,

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#3160 kumo7

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 07:12

It's quite telling that Ferrari approached Seidl first before Vasseur. Speaks volume about how good a job he has done to turn Mclaren's fortunes around

 

If this is true, Ferrari approached Seidl for the TP job this time, then it shows how confused Ferrari is.

Next year we may not see Ferrari in the top three. Getting interesting. 



#3161 BRG

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 09:57

It's quite telling that Ferrari approached Seidl first before Vasseur. Speaks volume about how good a job he has done to turn Mclaren's fortunes around

 

sauce?

Alphabetical order?  



#3162 Ali623

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 10:39

I wish it was his time at mclaren that gave him all credibility/high value, but honestly he did what was to be expected, not extraordinary amazing, so his high value is from previous jobs,

 

Wasn't he the catalyst for McLaren deciding to upgrade their infrastructure? Apparently he was also the main driver for changing the culture within McLaren.

 

It sounds like he did a really good job for setting McLaren up for the future as far as I can see. 



#3163 kumo7

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 10:45

Wasn't he the catalyst for McLaren deciding to upgrade their infrastructure? Apparently he was also the main driver for changing the culture within McLaren.

 

It sounds like he did a really good job for setting McLaren up for the future as far as I can see. 

 

Interesting question. I was more inclined to think that it was Key.

Prod is very conservative, IMHO.



#3164 Ali623

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 10:52

Interesting question. I was more inclined to think that it was Key.

Prod is very conservative, IMHO.

 

There were a bunch of articles at the time mentioning Seidl 'pushing for the wind tunnel since day 1'

 

https://www.motorspo...ay-one/4490927/



#3165 kumo7

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Posted 15 December 2022 - 10:55

There were a bunch of articles at the time mentioning Seidl 'pushing for the wind tunnel since day 1'

 

https://www.motorspo...ay-one/4490927/

 

Yup, but this is about Tunnel as the building. The car development is slightly different from pushing to build a new tunnel building.

This said I have yet to learn who pushed who, tho. 

I think that it is the job of the Tech Chief to push max from car design. TP does the management. His job profile tho. 



#3166 Lazy

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Posted 18 December 2022 - 20:40

The Judge 13: Rumour: Honda back to McLaren.
https://thejudge13.c...ack-to-mclaren/

#3167 BertoC

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Posted 19 December 2022 - 09:00

The Judge 13: Rumour: Honda back to McLaren.
https://thejudge13.c...ack-to-mclaren/

Article says nothing relevant. It keeps going in circles saying the same thing. If Honda returns, most likely will be by buying Toro Rosso.

Edited by BertoC, 19 December 2022 - 09:00.


#3168 Sonic2k

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Posted 19 December 2022 - 13:22

Would love to see Honda back. But isn't Judge 13 a very unreliable source?



#3169 Lazy

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 06:04

Article says nothing relevant. It keeps going in circles saying the same thing. If Honda returns, most likely will be by buying Toro Rosso.

You think RB would give up their second team? Seems unlikely, it's been invaluable to them.



#3170 Gary Davies

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 07:15

sauce?

 

Could have been this one.    ;)

 

whole-cherry-arrabbiata.png



#3171 MP418

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 07:22

When I first read that Honda will return, my first thought was "please let it be McLaren!". Despite all that happened in those dreadful three years, McLaren and Honda just belong together like carrots and peas, like peanut butter and marmalade, ... you get the idea.

By the way, has anyone of you noticed that Mercedes-Benz doesn't appear on McLaren's website at all, not even as a technical partner?

With a return from Honda, I hope that they also change their livery again. Orange was a nice try, but has never really worked again, especially in combination with blue (notable exception: their Gulf livery from Monaco 2021). Orange is generally perceived as "cheap" today, and the McLarens don't look classy either. With the four Google colours there is even a strange carnival feeling to them. Why cant they go back to white and fluo red? Just put a huge McLaren tick over the nose and the engine cover.

#3172 Clatter

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 08:26

When I first read that Honda will return, my first thought was "please let it be McLaren!". Despite all that happened in those dreadful three years, McLaren and Honda just belong together like carrots and peas, like peanut butter and marmalade, ... you get the idea.

By the way, has anyone of you noticed that Mercedes-Benz doesn't appear on McLaren's website at all, not even as a technical partner?

With a return from Honda, I hope that they also change their livery again. Orange was a nice try, but has never really worked again, especially in combination with blue (notable exception: their Gulf livery from Monaco 2021). Orange is generally perceived as "cheap" today, and the McLarens don't look classy either. With the four Google colours there is even a strange carnival feeling to them. Why cant they go back to white and fluo red? Just put a huge McLaren tick over the nose and the engine cover.

Hadn't noticed merc doesn't appear but that could be because McLaren have to pay for the engines, and listed parteners provide funding or a free service. In looking though, I was surprised to see BAT listed as a partener.

Edited by Clatter, 20 December 2022 - 08:26.


#3173 MP418

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 08:38

McLaren having to pay for the Mercedes engines would be a good reason for them to switch to Honda. And with Red Bull, Honda has proved to be capable to build championship winning engines (even though engines are supposedly not that important for the overall performance anymore).

#3174 RedRabbit

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 09:12

McLaren having to pay for the Mercedes engines would be a good reason for them to switch to Honda. And with Red Bull, Honda has proved to be capable to build championship winning engines (even though engines are supposedly not that important for the overall performance anymore).

Honda wouldn't have "championship winning engines" in a chassis other than the Red Bull.

McLaren are lost if they keep switching PU suppliers like this - they need to find investment somewhere and partner with a specialist engine builder to make their own units.

McLaren have a supercar division that just makes it seem strange for their F1 cars to be using engines from another manufacturer.

The best alternative option for the whole company would be to become a halo brand of a larger group.

Edited by RedRabbit, 20 December 2022 - 09:14.


#3175 MP418

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 10:43

I wouldn't put it that way. Had the Honda engines been bad (like maybe in the first two years of the second McLaren partnership), Red Bull couldn't have won the championship. Thus, the Honda engines ARE championship winning engines (like other engines are as well).

Also I don't see why McLaren would be lost with switching to Honda engines while Red Bull has them already and is doing well. I would rather say that it isn't the engine that keeps McLaren from winning the championship. But once they get their chassis right, having an exclusive engine partner could only help them, instead of being just another Mercedes customer. My main point is though that McLaren wouldn't have to PAY for Honda engines unlike what they have to do for Mercedes engines at the moment. Having their very own PU would be even more expensive, without providing a decisive competitive advantage. Red Bull will do it, but with Ford as a marketing sponsor, but then, who should slap their advertising sticker on a McLaren PU, other than McLaren themselves? So, there is no economic benefit there.

As to McLaren roadcars, BMW was rumored to offering for a takeover recently. McLaren denied - obviously they are capable of running the roadcar company on their own. The roadcar division and the racing division should stay economically separated IMHO.

McLaren-Honda. I believe it has potential if it's intended as a long-term partnership. Might as well have big marketing opportunities if done right and once they are successful. Take the silver arrows: They existed sooo long ago and weren't even the most successful cars in F1 history, yet Mercedes managed to revive/create that "mythos". Even though silver arrows already existed (McLaren-Mercedes), Mercedes managed to claim the "new, real silver arrows" for themselves. Now imagine the potential of McLaren-Honda...

Edited by MP418, 20 December 2022 - 10:47.


#3176 Anuity

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 11:26

There’s really no need for Honda to turn to a team like McLaren.

it would likely make more sense if they turned to Williams.



#3177 MP418

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 12:36

There’s really no need for a team like McLaren to stay with Mercedes.
it would likely make more sense if they turned to Honda.

Edited by MP418, 20 December 2022 - 12:37.


#3178 Sonic2k

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 12:37

There’s really no need for Honda to turn to a team like McLaren.

it would likely make more sense if they turned to Williams.

 

But other than Williams, there are not much of options for Honda. And Williams is still a mess. If they team up with them it could be as bad as their last stint with McLaren.

They could buy AT but if they only want to be an engine supplier, McLaren is the best option. New wind tunnel, great drivers and most important a much different mindset then the McLaren of 2015-2017. It could work. 


Edited by Sonic2k, 20 December 2022 - 12:39.


#3179 Clatter

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 15:23

But other than Williams, there are not much of options for Honda. And Williams is still a mess. If they team up with them it could be as bad as their last stint with McLaren.

They could buy AT but if they only want to be an engine supplier, McLaren is the best option. New wind tunnel, great drivers and most important a much different mindset then the McLaren of 2015-2017. It could work. 

 


No matter who they were to team up with, it would not be as bad as it was at Mclaren. That was all down to the engine being so bad, and their struggle to get it operating correctly. They now have a reliable and powerful PU, and it would take something extraordinary to go backwards to those bad times.

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#3180 Sonic2k

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 16:13

No matter who they were to team up with, it would not be as bad as it was at Mclaren. That was all down to the engine being so bad, and their struggle to get it operating correctly. They now have a reliable and powerful PU, and it would take something extraordinary to go backwards to those bad times.

Sure, the engine is fine now. But it doesn't matter if the chassis is bad like the one from Williams. Maybe (and hopefully) they will be better one day but it's a risky move for Honda.


Edited by Sonic2k, 20 December 2022 - 16:14.


#3181 GreenMachine

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 20:43

No matter who they were to team up with, it would not be as bad as it was at Mclaren. That was all down to the engine being so bad, and their struggle to get it operating correctly. They now have a reliable and powerful PU, and it would take something extraordinary to go backwards to those bad times.

 

Good thing the chassis was top drawer, or they might have been in real trouble.

 

Oh, wait, ...



#3182 Clatter

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Posted 20 December 2022 - 21:01

Good thing the chassis was top drawer, or they might have been in real trouble.

 

Oh, wait, ...

 


You think they would have been in a better place if married to a great chassis? They were woefully underpowered, and unreliable.

#3183 MP418

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Posted 21 December 2022 - 06:49

What is actually McLaren's problem with chassis? If I remember the last ~20 years correctly, they continuously improved the radical MP4/18 concept until they won the championship with the MP4/23 (and lost it by 1 point the year ago). The year after, they surprisingly missed it completely under the new aero rules. With the 25, 26 and 27 they tried to gain an exclusive advantage with special tricks (F duct, L sidepods / octo exhaust, coanda sidepods), while Red Bull kept winning championships by continuously improving their chassis. However, McLaren managed to at least stay in the second place. In hindsight, Martin Whitmarsh found that it would have been better to take "calculated risks", what they did with the 28, but things only got worse. I have no clue why. Next, they poached Prodromou from Red Bull who came up with the "size zero" concept, which proved to be fundamently wrong, with or without Honda. McLaren has stayed in midfield ever since and has never managed to shine again. There have neither been words of how good their chassis is in general, nor have there been innovative design solutions in particular. At some point, they just lost it.

#3184 kumo7

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Posted 21 December 2022 - 12:45

What is actually McLaren's problem with chassis? If I remember the last ~20 years correctly, they continuously improved the radical MP4/18 concept until they won the championship with the MP4/23 (and lost it by 1 point the year ago). The year after, they surprisingly missed it completely under the new aero rules. With the 25, 26 and 27 they tried to gain an exclusive advantage with special tricks (F duct, L sidepods / octo exhaust, coanda sidepods), while Red Bull kept winning championships by continuously improving their chassis. However, McLaren managed to at least stay in the second place. In hindsight, Martin Whitmarsh found that it would have been better to take "calculated risks", what they did with the 28, but things only got worse. I have no clue why. Next, they poached Prodromou from Red Bull who came up with the "size zero" concept, which proved to be fundamently wrong, with or without Honda. McLaren has stayed in midfield ever since and has never managed to shine again. There have neither been words of how good their chassis is in general, nor have there been innovative design solutions in particular. At some point, they just lost it.

 

Well it is slow, and appears that the technical teams had not thought of a better concept other than "refining" 2021 model. RBR and Ferrari "invented" the new model that clearly outpaced the rest. 

McLaren sort of caught up a bit, was not enough to go in front of Alpine. Not creative enough, that is the issue. Not inspiring, that is the limit. it appears that it is not keen to chase the performance aggressively. 

Yet in the second half of the season, McLaren forced the change, that I appreciate a lot. This modification did not brought the success, but I believe that this will change the 2023.


Edited by kumo7, 21 December 2022 - 12:47.


#3185 owenmahamilton

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Posted 01 January 2023 - 08:23

Not 2022 related but rather than creating a new thread, I thought I'd just post this here. I just read on McLaren's Facebook page that in 2023, the team will be celebrating it's 60th Anniversary. It would be interesting to see how different McLaren would be nowadays if Bruce hadn't passed away at such a young age (he'd be 86 if he was still alive). Would he be running the team or would he have sold it to someone else by now.



#3186 AlexS

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Posted 01 January 2023 - 18:43

If Bruce lives on will Ron Dennis still be in and bring the golden 80's with Porsche and Honda plus the crucial alliance with Middle East money? if not it is possible that Mclaren even would have being renamed and stopped existing.



#3187 kumo7

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 08:58

Not 2022 related but rather than creating a new thread, I thought I'd just post this here. I just read on McLaren's Facebook page that in 2023, the team will be celebrating it's 60th Anniversary. It would be interesting to see how different McLaren would be nowadays if Bruce hadn't passed away at such a young age (he'd be 86 if he was still alive). Would he be running the team or would he have sold it to someone else by now.


Wonderful thoughts to ponder upon I think.

Any projects ends and it matters how and what happens there after. McLaren has generations of team structures and running till today theresbouts. I would love to see it perform its prestige, but any game player that is in climbing mode is a great player.

#3188 frosty125

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 09:02

I'm hearing that Audi engines for McLaren could be part of the deal.

Maybe it's an option as part of the contract, if it was something they could secure for very little. McLaren may never take up the option but it could be there. Zak is a good negotiator.



#3189 Risil

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Posted 04 January 2023 - 10:29

2023 thread over here: https://forums.autos...23-team-thread/

 

Thanks everyone! :wave: