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RBR RB18 (Technical Thread) 2022


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#5401 pUs

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Posted 01 November 2022 - 10:12

Thank you.

 

I wonder what it means they haven't updated in a long while, then. Initially, I thought RBR have a huge advantage (fastest car, early development on next year's car), but I'm not so sure.

 

RBR (now) have the fastest car, so it's reasonable to assume they will just further develope the car they have. Then, it's weird they don't put the new parts on the current car, because you can't have a better evaluation than trying stuff on track. So either they still will change quite a lot next season, and individual updates won't work on the current car, or there's just no money left.

I guess that depends a bit on what sort of car they are designing for next year and how much overlap there is. Producing bits and pieces that might not fit, require major redesigning to do so and/or in general just giving away too much won't make sense..


Edited by pUs, 01 November 2022 - 10:12.


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#5402 SenorSjon

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Posted 01 November 2022 - 15:47

You can't remember the incredible fight that Leclerc put on in the first few races when the Ferrari was comparable?

 

The Ferrari was better back then. Especially with the RB overweight, understeery and eating tires but very fast in a straight line. You could see the Ferrari having better traction in those days. Kudos for the team to dial all that out. Leclerc just drops the ball too often with crashes (Imola/France) or bad streaks to sustain a 22 race WDC-challenge. From Spain till Monza had only the Austria win as a podium finish. That is 9 races in which he totalled 82 points. Verstappen got 199 points in the same 9 races (Hamilton 110, Russell 111, Sainz 118 and Perez 125 btw)

 

When was the last time RB brought anything new to the car? I wonder have they switched the focus to next year much earlier than maybe we thought?

 

I think the lightweight chassis has been postponed to next year? There was a lot of talk about it around Zandvoort <> Singapore but it kept getting postponed. I think it is now readied for the 2023 crash test(?)

 

I actually missed that bit, sorry.

The short battle in COTA was great to watch. I think Max + RBR at the moment are like Schumacher + Ferrari in the 2000s. Even if the car isn't outright fastest, the combination works so well that they'll keep winning races they probably shouldn't have, because the competition keeps letting itself down somehow.

 

Good call. He is usually around profiting from any mistakes the other team makes.


Edited by SenorSjon, 01 November 2022 - 15:49.


#5403 Frankbullitt

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Posted 01 November 2022 - 16:09

The Ferrari was better back then. Especially with the RB overweight, understeery and eating tires but very fast in a straight line. You could see the Ferrari having better traction in those days. Kudos for the team to dial all that out. Leclerc just drops the ball too often with crashes (Imola/France) or bad streaks to sustain a 22 race WDC-challenge. From Spain till Monza had only the Austria win as a podium finish. That is 9 races in which he totalled 82 points. Verstappen got 199 points in the same 9 races (Hamilton 110, Russell 111, Sainz 118 and Perez 125 btw)

 

 

I think the lightweight chassis has been postponed to next year? There was a lot of talk about it around Zandvoort <> Singapore but it kept getting postponed. I think it is now readied for the 2023 crash test(?)

 

 

Good call. He is usually around profiting from any mistakes the other team makes.

 

Main reason I ask, RB more or less had the championship for Max tied up races ago, so perhaps they had switched to 2023 earlier. They also have a solid grasp on their concept, and despite the rule change for next year, I don't think it will upset them that much along with the reduced wind tunnel time. 

 

Had they not had a good grasp on the concept, I would be worried.



#5404 Frankbullitt

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 02:20

Anyone still alive in here?

First time in a while where RB have work to properly do tomorrow. I know they have probably stopped developing the car months ago…but still.

#5405 RazF1

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 02:37

I think the last actual upgrade was in Spa, correct? But still, I think people are reading a bit too much into the car's performance in the sprint. I don't think it's so cut and dry.



#5406 jpm2019

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 08:08

Austria 22 vibes

#5407 Laptom

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 08:19

I don't think there is a big change to challenge the Mercs tomorrow, but the other way around, as long as Perez finish in front of Ferrari it is good enough.

#5408 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 08:29

Austria 22 vibes


This. Verstappen saying he likes having only one shot to setup the car, while history shows RB usually needs the full Friday to dial in the car.

#5409 pUs

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 08:44

I feel that for some reason the team really needs track time to fine tune something. It's not the first time that the sprint weekend format seem to compromise them a lot. The only positive I take from this is that they are at least prepared for a tough race.

I wonder if it would make sense to start from the pits to rework the setup completely? If they have a reasonable idea I think it could be worth it. I doubt even a podium will be possible with this sort of tire wear if everything stays the same..

#5410 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 08:53

I feel that for some reason the team really needs track time to fine tune something. It's not the first time that the sprint weekend format seem to compromise them a lot. The only positive I take from this is that they are at least prepared for a tough race.

I wonder if it would make sense to start from the pits to rework the setup completely? If they have a reasonable idea I think it could be worth it. I doubt even a podium will be possible with this sort of tire wear if everything stays the same..


Indeed. And he can add 'win from the back' to his bucket list.

#5411 jacdaniel

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 09:23

We've suffered all year from poor Fridays. For whatever reason, it always takes Red Bull much longer to get the car performing as desired.

#5412 Kao18

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 09:49

I feel that for some reason the team really needs track time to fine tune something. It's not the first time that the sprint weekend format seem to compromise them a lot. The only positive I take from this is that they are at least prepared for a tough race.

I wonder if it would make sense to start from the pits to rework the setup completely? If they have a reasonable idea I think it could be worth it. I doubt even a podium will be possible with this sort of tire wear if everything stays the same..

 

The Mercs look strong but I doubt they will just drive of in the distance when on the same tire. Starting 3rd is not the end of the world.

 

Besides even if they somehow miraculously found the sweet spot by starting from the back, the car does not look nearly dominant enough it would be able to pass the whole field including two Ferrari's and two Mercs that all got a head start before the end of the race.


Edited by Kao18, 13 November 2022 - 09:52.


#5413 pUs

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 10:20

The Mercs look strong but I doubt they will just drive of in the distance when on the same tire. Starting 3rd is not the end of the world.

Besides even if they somehow miraculously found the sweet spot by starting from the back, the car does not look nearly dominant enough it would be able to pass the whole field including two Ferrari's and two Mercs that all got a head start before the end of the race.


I think even a podium is way out of reach for Max as things stand. Can't see that there's anything to lose tbh..

#5414 PedroDiCasttro

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 19:46

The car had no pace whatsoever. This is not a good indication for the next few seasons.

#5415 Heyli

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 19:47

The car had no pace whatsoever. This is not a good indication for the next few seasons.

Wouldnt worry about it. You can easily mess up the setup in a sprint weekend.



#5416 jpm2019

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 19:48

3rt best car, messy strategy overall. Bad weekend.



#5417 Frankbullitt

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 19:49

The car had no pace whatsoever. This is not a good indication for the next few seasons.


Yeah…the double world championships this season really is a poor sign of what’s to come.

#5418 geralt

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 19:51

I genuinely don't understand why 1. these Perez and Leclerc care so much about who finishes 2nd (who even remembers that) and 2. why would Max deny that?

 

As if a 6th would change anything lol



#5419 search

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 23:00

I genuinely don't understand why 1. these Perez and Leclerc care so much about who finishes 2nd (who even remembers that)

I was surprised about that as well, thought it was a media thing only to hype things up, but the drivers actually do seem to care.

 

It'll basically be forgotten the Tuesday after anyway.



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#5420 RazF1

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 23:05

I genuinely don't understand why 1. these Perez and Leclerc care so much about who finishes 2nd (who even remembers that) and 2. why would Max deny that?

 

As if a 6th would change anything lol

 

THIS. This really baffles me as well. I kind of expected Perez to care about it though but was very surprised to hear Leclerc talk about it on the radio, asking for a place swap. All this drama for a stat that gets you nothing really. 



#5421 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 23:09

There are about 3 topics on this, this is the technical thread.

#5422 RazF1

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Posted 14 November 2022 - 00:40

There are about 3 topics on this, this is the technical thread.

 

Agreed! On the technical side, it appears that Max was right on Saturday and said the truth as always. I hoped he was just pessimistic and reacting maybe too harshly so soon after the race but he got it right. They went with the wrong setup and it proved costly. I guess that's the downside of a sprint weekend when you only have one practice session and the weather is changeable. Had it rained I think we were looking at an easy RB 1-2.

 

Had they known it wasn't going to rain, I think we would have seen the medium DF wing that I am sure will come out to play in Abu Dhabi. 



#5423 Frankbullitt

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Posted 14 November 2022 - 01:26

Hopefully they close out the season strong in Abu Dhabi. Signing off with a win would be sweet after such a great season.

#5424 jacdaniel

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 12:09

So, have we figured out why we were so slow in Brazil?

Be interesting to see how we get on at Abu Dhabi. I always think it's important to finish strong.

#5425 Jon83

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 12:27

The car had no pace whatsoever. This is not a good indication for the next few seasons.

Feels a tad dramatic.



#5426 RedRabbit

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 14:05

I genuinely don't understand why 1. these Perez and Leclerc care so much about who finishes 2nd (who even remembers that) and 2. why would Max deny that?

As if a 6th would change anything lol


Probably prize/bonus money. And people definitely remember runner up. Also, competitive people always want to beat as many as they can.

It's really just fans that actually believe only first place counts. If that were true, half the grid wouldn't bother turning up after pre-season.

#5427 Ali623

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 15:10

So, have we figured out why we were so slow in Brazil?

Be interesting to see how we get on at Abu Dhabi. I always think it's important to finish strong.

 

Seemed very similar to Austria, terrible tyre wear being the main culprit, which also happened to be a sprint weekend. Maybe they need more time than others to setup the car properly? Could be a concern next season if they haven't 'solved' it with 6 sprint weekends.



#5428 Frankbullitt

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 19:03

So, have we figured out why we were so slow in Brazil?

Be interesting to see how we get on at Abu Dhabi. I always think it's important to finish strong.

 

Sounds like a mix of things, along with the team hoping for rain perhaps on the Sunday.

 

Abu Dhabi should be better.



#5429 Gravelngrass

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Posted 18 November 2022 - 12:19

The car had no pace whatsoever. This is not a good indication for the next few seasons.


And now I’m AD they’re 3 tenths down on Merc in the first practice with Perez. I know 1) it’s Perez and 2) its FP1, but seeing Merc back on top just scares the hell out of me. They just can’t be allowed to dominate again…

#5430 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 18 November 2022 - 17:02

And now I’m AD they’re 3 tenths down on Merc in the first practice with Perez. I know 1) it’s Perez and 2) its FP1, but seeing Merc back on top just scares the hell out of me. They just can’t be allowed to dominate again…

But it’s okay for Red Bull too, like they have this season?

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 18 November 2022 - 17:03.


#5431 basimi

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Posted 18 November 2022 - 17:08

But it’s okay for Red Bull too, like they have this season?


Yes very much ;-)

#5432 Frankbullitt

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Posted 18 November 2022 - 19:03

Car looks strong with Max, Checo just has to beat Charles...that is all.



#5433 jacdaniel

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Posted 18 November 2022 - 19:18

And now I’m AD they’re 3 tenths down on Merc in the first practice with Perez. I know 1) it’s Perez and 2) its FP1, but seeing Merc back on top just scares the hell out of me. They just can’t be allowed to dominate again…


It's kind of inevitable that they'll be competitive again. Especially when you are getting the regulations etc changed for you.

We'll have to fight even harder to stay on top.

#5434 Ivanhoe

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Posted 21 November 2022 - 09:00

According to AMuS Red Bull were running with heavier older spec parts, could have been the reason they didn't manage to dial in the car in Brazil.

The high-flyer of the season was thus able to compensate for the increased weight of the RB18. With parts of an older specification, the car had gained a few kilos in the final spurt of the season


#5435 WouterF1

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Posted 27 December 2022 - 18:51

Farewell RB18

Everyone has played their part in our most successful season in Formula 1 and we speak to a few
 that got to know the RB18 very well over the course of 2022.


Geoff Ayton, Controls engineer
Rob Dowe, Systems Design engineer
Ana Groom, Aerodynamics engineer
Matt Semple, Electrical Systems engineer

 



#5436 JeePee

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Posted 28 December 2022 - 12:42

They really couldn't put the real car there? That's the 2021 FIA show model  :well: 



#5437 Frankbullitt

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 17:34

RB19 thread soon?

 

I hope everyone had a great Christmas  :drunk:



#5438 vlado

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 18:31

Verstappen: Impossible for understeery F1 car to be fast (autosport.com)

 

 

He is probably right 



#5439 Ivanhoe

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 18:39

Yeah, and an understeering car is also much easier to drive on the limit, oversteer is much harder to control, that’s where the driver can really make the difference.



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#5440 vlado

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 21:11

Aren't the new front tires supposed to help with that as well? 

 

Regardless, looking forward to seeing what him and LEC can do this year  :up:



#5441 Timothy

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 08:57

 

And to think a certain former team principal and race engineer decided contrary to this. In the midst of a title championship battle, undoing a perfectly balanced car suited for these regulations to please Santander. :rolleyes:


Edited by Timothy, 12 January 2023 - 09:00.


#5442 gillesfan76

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Posted 14 March 2023 - 12:45

Do we think that the pursuit of medium-high to high speed downforce is as important with these cars as it was before? What I mean is, with the previous regulations and flat floor, it wasn’t so easy to produce efficient downforce at medium-high to high speeds. It was difficult to get downforce from the floor and diffuser because there was no venturi and they had to really work at getting the floor to seal and make the diffuser work well to get what lthey could from the flat floor. Adding more wing or wing angle would bring downforce and drag.

 

However with this new era, they’re given a venturi. Getting efficient downforce i.e downforce without massive increase in drag is relatively easy now for medium-high to high speed corners. Whereas at low speed the cars aren’t great because the venturi has little effect, but the stiffer setup to make the venturi work at higher speeds combined with the increased weight makes for a lethargic car that doesn’t have a great mechanical platform either because of the chassis stiffness.

 

It would seem to me that pursuing more downforce, when downforce is already relatively easy to obtain could be a case of diminishing returns in terms of lap time. Whereas in slow corners, it’s easy to gain tenths if the car has a good mechanical chassis. We already saw last year cars going full throttle without lifting through corners that previously required lifting. With venturi cars, what they’re going to do with the higher downforce that the venturi design brings? Go even more full throttle???

 

I’m sure the teams know all this and have designed the cars for minimum lap time hence I’m not sure how important the design is for high downforce. While we’re all focused on the aero side, I suspect that the teams are focusing a lot more on the mechanical side and trying to get a package that gives the maximum mechanical grip possible while keeping the platform stable enough for the venturi to work.

 

Just read this article now by Damon Hill https://www.planetf1...ocus-area-rb19/ and found it interesting in context of what I speculated on before the 2022 season even started.

 

I don’t think I was correct in saying that getting efficient downforce in medium and high speed corners will be relatively easy with the new regs, but I don’t think I was too far off in general principle, especially regarding the slow speed corners based on what Hill just said now. The mechanical grip on the RB19 is fantastic and I think what stands it head and shoulders above the Aston Martin for example.



#5443 OO7

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Posted 14 March 2023 - 14:12

Just read this article now by Damon Hill https://www.planetf1...ocus-area-rb19/ and found it interesting in context of what I speculated on before the 2022 season even started.

 

I don’t think I was correct in saying that getting efficient downforce in medium and high speed corners will be relatively easy with the new regs, but I don’t think I was too far off in general principle, especially regarding the slow speed corners based on what Hill just said now. The mechanical grip on the RB19 is fantastic and I think what stands it head and shoulders above the Aston Martin for example.

Newey is an aerodynamicist, not a vehicle dynamics guy.  I'm sure he would have had some input on what he would like from the suspension, but I think Hill is stretching reality a little there.

EDIT:

I reread the article and I guess it actually means Newey spent more time with the vehicle dynamics engineers, rather than working on the suspension designs themselves.


Edited by OO7, 14 March 2023 - 14:16.


#5444 JimmyTheFox

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Posted 14 March 2023 - 14:31

Newey himself said he did the development of the suspension last season, so this wouldn't be an outlandish claim by Hill.

"Specifically, on this car [the RB18] I did the front and rear suspension and a few other bits and pieces."

https://the-race.com...and-retirement/

Edited by JimmyTheFox, 14 March 2023 - 14:35.