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Oracle Red Bull Racing Team 2022


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#2401 AV1

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Posted 28 December 2022 - 20:01

6 / 1 / 1 / 2=150+18+15+24 =207



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#2402 WouterF1

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 07:54

6 / 1 / 1 / 2=150+18+15+24 =207

So two TPs think that three drivers were  better than Max in 2022 . I would like to know those three drivers.

One I could imagine but three?



#2403 Heyli

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 08:25

So two TPs think that three drivers were  better than Max in 2022 . I would like to know those three drivers.

One I could imagine but three?

Probably Russell, Leclerc and Hamilton. I dont agree, but those are the most likely candidates. 



#2404 RedRabbit

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 08:29

Probably Russell, Leclerc and Hamilton. I dont agree, but those are the most likely candidates.


Funny how we always talk about the "data" and yet evey year the TP vote reflects car performance.

#2405 eab

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 12:21

First of all, there's no way you can come to a total of 207 pts with 9 (or less) votes, so the TPs definitely got to vote for their own drivers. It also means that, we can deduce that all the TPs voted rb's lead driver in their top-10.
So with 10 TPs' casting their votes, there are 11 possible ways to come to a total of 207 points:
  1) 5*1st 4*2nd                    1*5th
  2) 6*1st            3*3rd 1*4th
  3) 6*1st 1*2nd 1*3rd  2*4th
  4) 6*1st 2*2nd 1*3rd                              1*7th
  5) 7*1st                      1*4th 2*5th
  6) 7*1st                      2*4th          1*6th
  7) 7*1st            2*3rd                                               1*9th
  8) 7*1st 1*2nd                              1*6th 1*7th
  9) 7*1st 1*2nd                    1*5th                    1*8th
10) 7*1st 1*2nd           1*4th                                      1*9th 
11) 8*1st                                                  1*7th                   1*10th

Edited by eab, 29 December 2022 - 21:29.


#2406 TradeMark

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 13:13

You'd say the first option seems most logical. It seems hard to imagine multiple team bosses didn't put him in the Top 2. I can imagine quite a few not putting him first as they may have put one of their own drivers first.

#2407 AustinF1

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 17:51

Probably Russell, Leclerc and Hamilton. I dont agree, but those are the most likely candidates. 

Yeah Lewis, for one, was too high up on that list for this season. 



#2408 P123

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 18:30

Yeah Lewis, for one, was too high up on that list for this season. 

 

Fourth or fifth would seem about right.  Perez in 5th is the jarring one, ahead of Norris and Alonso.  He went missing for a large part of the season.



#2409 PitViperRacing

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 19:04

Fourth or fifth would seem about right. Perez in 5th is the jarring one, ahead of Norris and Alonso. He went missing for a large part of the season.


Agreed on both accounts. If you have Russell in your top 3-4, Lewis should be directly behind him imo. They were virtually equal.

Perez is lucky to break into the top 10 in my mind.

#2410 eab

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 21:43

You'd say the first option seems most logical. It seems hard to imagine multiple team bosses didn't put him in the Top 2. I can imagine quite a few not putting him first as they may have put one of their own drivers first.

Well firstly, I think it's hard to talk about 'logic' wrt one specific option if pure probabilistically speaking, any single one has only a small chance to be correct due to so many scattered possibilities.
Secondly, if you were to place a bet on how many firsts max got, or to answer an exam question about what number of firsts is most likely, you wouldn't go for 5.
 
Thirdly, about 'the pulling your own above everybody else'-strategy, why then stop at first place? Might as well put both of your drivers at the top, so first and second.
Another point of contention would be that if you look at the results of the previous years, biased voting to such a degree, doesn't add up.
Lastly, if we are about to make some reasonable assumptions in an attempt to deduce further (from the stated 11 options), judging by the scores of the top-10, let us first conclude that the only TPs that could've voted their own driver in 1st, are the ones of MER, FER, RB, McL, AR and ALP. Now say AT's TP 'genuinely' voted for max in first, and so did RB's own TP. Then for the 1st option to be right because of the suggested strategy, we need 5 out of a mathematically possible 5 TP's that adhered to it. So not impossible, but only just. 
Furthermore, I liken the likelihood of Szafnauer voting for ALO in 1st to zero, especially him not being part of the team anymore. And BOT receiving only a total of 4 pts from 9 TP's next to 25 from his, (now ex-)TP?
Bwoah.

Edited by eab, 30 December 2022 - 09:53.


#2411 AustinF1

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 22:20

Fourth or fifth would seem about right.  Perez in 5th is the jarring one, ahead of Norris and Alonso.  He went missing for a large part of the season.

Yeah they have Perez too high, too, and probably Sainz as well.



#2412 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 December 2022 - 23:17

or the team principals actually know that RB is a one car team with all the focus on one driver



#2413 DavidAntW

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Posted 30 December 2022 - 08:50


First of all, there's no way you can come to a total of 207 pts with 9 (or less) votes, so the TPs definitely got to vote for their own drivers. It also means that, we can deduce that all the TPs voted rb's lead driver in their top-10.
So with 10 TPs' casting their votes, there are 11 possible ways to come to a total of 207 points:
1) 5*1st 4*2nd 1*5th
2) 6*1st 3*3rd 1*4th
3) 6*1st 1*2nd 1*3rd 2*4th
4) 6*1st 2*2nd 1*3rd 1*7th
5) 7*1st 1*4th 2*5th
6) 7*1st 2*4th 1*6th
7) 7*1st 2*3rd 1*9th
8) 7*1st 1*2nd 1*6th 1*7th
9) 7*1st 1*2nd 1*5th 1*8th
10) 7*1st 1*2nd 1*4th 1*9th
11) 8*1st 1*7th 1*10th


Option 2 with Ferrari, Alfa and Haas putting Ferrari drivers ahead and maybe Toto picking his drivers and either Mick for a giggle or Charles to continue the charm offensive?

#2414 eab

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Posted 30 December 2022 - 14:37

Option 2 with Ferrari, Alfa and Haas putting Ferrari drivers ahead and maybe Toto picking his drivers and either Mick for a giggle or Charles to continue the charm offensive?

Could be, could be.

It might also be interesting to see how the possibilities stack if one would only look at the numbers, so without trying to guess what individual TPs did (based on bias). Then your choice, option 2, would be the 4th highest ranked in terms of being most likely. Fourth out of eleven, so not too bad, but its probability is actually lower than the average. There are two options that have the highest probability by far. However, together they still don't reach 50%. Those two are options 3 and 4. Between the two of them, they are at 48%, divided equally.



#2415 TradeMark

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Posted 30 December 2022 - 16:29

Did you know that 82.7% of people make up percentages to make their claim sound more reliable?

#2416 DavidAntW

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Posted 31 December 2022 - 08:57

Did you know that 82.7% of people make up percentages to make their claim sound more reliable?


Only 17% of people are aware of that fact.

#2417 CharlesWinstone

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Posted 31 December 2022 - 15:10

or the team principals actually know that RB is a one car team with all the focus on one driver


They can't know but they might think but then it's still not correct.

#2418 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 January 2023 - 03:40

They can't know but they might think but then it's still not correct.

people actually voted Max as 3rd driver this year.
This is more about politics than performance

#2419 lewislorenzo

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Posted 03 January 2023 - 08:19

people actually voted Max as 3rd driver this year.
This is more about politics than performance


I don’t think Max will care…he won the WDC ultimately

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#2420 DavidAntW

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Posted 06 January 2023 - 12:57

people actually voted Max as 3rd driver this year.
This is more about politics than performance


I can imagine Zak not putting him top as he seemed very wedded to his views around the Cost Cap. Or Toto / Binotto putting their drivers ahead of Max to manage egos.

I struggle to make an argument for anything other than Verstappen as best driver last season. Whether a fan or not that was as close to a perfect season as I’ve seen in 29 years.

#2421 Clatter

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Posted 07 January 2023 - 11:09

or the team principals actually know that RB is a one car team with all the focus on one driver


That's not a hook for them to hang their hat on. Most teams have probably done that at one time or another.