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W Series 2022 (Split Topic)


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#1201 Lassel

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Posted 15 August 2023 - 20:28

The numbers involved are pretty staggering…

£32m in private funding raised, including several very famous names and blown through in losses in its first two seasons.

It’s clear there was no long term revenue plan in place and people paid with their pockets for getting involved in this car crash. (ironic)

*edit* interesting note in the administrators report, the cars have been locked away in containers with a logistics firm for a year now and DHL have a lien over them until they get their €500k.

Edited by Lassel, 15 August 2023 - 20:41.


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#1202 Collombin

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Posted 15 August 2023 - 20:43

But yah, good call. I think Mouton was the best female driver that I can think of, ever. ( so far)


To put a couple of others out there, Pat Moss won a few international rallies (pre championship days but it still counts!), and Elisabeth Junek was apparently pretty remarkable.

#1203 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 09:45

To put a couple of others out there, Pat Moss won a few international rallies (pre championship days but it still counts!), and Elisabeth Junek was apparently pretty remarkable.

 

Neither were anywhere close to Mouton, she took on and beat the very best male drivers, head to head beating Walter Rohrl is something tangible, finishing second in the World Championship.



#1204 Collombin

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 09:55

I hope you aren't suggesting Mouton was in Röhrl's league? If that were so then yes that would make her the best, unquestionably.

Anyway I never said they were better than her, just that they never crop up in these discussions, and they should. Others too.

#1205 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 10:02

No she was not as good as Rohrls, arguably at most 2 have ever been before and since - She was however darn good, and comparable talentwise with many of the male drivers at the time.



#1206 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 10:03

I hope you aren't suggesting Mouton was in Röhrl's league? If that were so then yes that would make her the best, unquestionably.

Anyway I never said they were better than her, just that they never crop up in these discussions, and they should. Others too.

 

Yes we should remember all of those who fought back then against very high odds.



#1207 Sterzo

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 10:06

The numbers involved are pretty staggering…

£32m in private funding raised, including several very famous names and blown through in losses in its first two seasons.

It’s clear there was no long term revenue plan in place and people paid with their pockets for getting involved in this car crash. (ironic)

*edit* interesting note in the administrators report, the cars have been locked away in containers with a logistics firm for a year now and DHL have a lien over them until they get their €500k.

Speaking from my usual ignorance, I'm not sure that I agree with this. Companies go bust, and we all know racing is a precarious area for businesses. The numbers don't stagger me. They equate (I would guess) to a loss of about half one year's operating costs. That's before the assets (fleet of cars) is disposed of, which will reduce the loss.

 

The "long term plan" was the same as any racing operation; to attract sponsorship; that's the element that failed.

 

Then you're confronted with the question: when to cut losses and stop. It's probably universal (and understandable) in such events to hang on too long, hunting for a rescue package.

 

Maybe there is something irresponsible here but I can't see much.


Edited by Sterzo, 16 August 2023 - 10:07.


#1208 Bleu

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 10:36

The listing of biggest sums alone is over 7.5 million £.



#1209 Lassel

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Posted 16 August 2023 - 10:42

Speaking from my usual ignorance, I'm not sure that I agree with this. Companies go bust, and we all know racing is a precarious area for businesses. The numbers don't stagger me. They equate (I would guess) to a loss of about half one year's operating costs. That's before the assets (fleet of cars) is disposed of, which will reduce the loss.

The "long term plan" was the same as any racing operation; to attract sponsorship; that's the element that failed.

Then you're confronted with the question: when to cut losses and stop. It's probably universal (and understandable) in such events to hang on too long, hunting for a rescue package.

Maybe there is something irresponsible here but I can't see much.


In fairness I don’t think there was anything irresponsible here, just some naivety and perhaps even cognitive dissonance on display here - Adrian Newey and David Coulthard are two of the big investors who you would think have a good insight into how this could eventually turn a profit.

There is a large international debtor who owes around £15m which is presumably Liberty and presumably who aren’t paying for 2022 due to the failure to deliver all scheduled races, so even with a decent revenue stream, they still haemorrhaged cash, even without the cars which are assets so wouldn’t be fully included in that £34m+ lost.

Even the discussions the directors entered into prior to administration were looking for benefactors to fund further losses until they could eventually find profitability.

Of course I have sympathy with the ‘little people’ who are owed money and hopefully the cars can realise some good % of their debts, but as per the administrators report, the cars have been locked away in shopping containers now for a year and DHL won’t even let them inspect them until they get paid, so there is no guarantee the cars will realise their value as I’m sure they’re not supposed to sit for 12 months outside in containers..

#1210 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 18:54

Who paid for Jamie’s ride in Indy NXT ?

Jp

#1211 Lassel

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 20:35

Who paid for Jamie’s ride in Indy NXT ?

Jp


Presumably her wealthy parents? With some contribution from DHL

#1212 jonpollak

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Posted 23 August 2023 - 22:19

No offence Lassel but presumptions are an invitation down a blind alley.

 

Jp



#1213 Lassel

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 08:14

Sure, well when revisiting the creditors list, Chadwick is not named, and none of the balances high enough - £200k+ - correspond to companies that could be hers.

As the drivers would almost certainly be subbies, not employees it *seems* that they indeed got paid.

Even if they were employees which would be crazy, if she deferred her winnings i would expect her to be on the creditors list as a material creditor.

Ultimately only the administrators would know for sure, but it certainly *seems* she was not left high and dry

*edit* having looked at her company Jamie Chadwick Racing, indeed it she received a big cash influx in 2022, and a ‘debt’ to her dad Michael was paid down by £500k, so I’m confident that indeed she got her winnings out.

Edited by Lassel, 24 August 2023 - 08:22.


#1214 flatlandsman

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Posted 24 August 2023 - 09:05

She has told the press that she won half a mill each year I think, bought a house etc etc, so that is not anything newsworthy. 



#1215 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 27 September 2023 - 13:37

Posting here because it didn't seem worthy of a new topic.

 

Saw on twitter about Jess Hawkins testing an Aston (2021 I believe) and then all the comments regarding why isn't a women testing/driving an F1 car more frequently etc

 

It's great to try and encourage women to get into motorsport, and I have no doubt that's what this excercise was.

 

As there is absolutely no way a drive with her results should be driving an F1 car, or really even linked with AM.

 

It does highlight the great marketing W Series had though, because there's the clamour for Chadwick to get a test too as 3x champ, 

Whereas if W series was called something else that reflected the actual level in the car i suspect people might assume differently.

 

Even amused by some tweets saying Hawkins would be quicker than Stroll, (I don't even think they were joking)



#1216 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 September 2023 - 14:06

It seems strange and unfortunate to me that the most promising drivers right now - Maya Weug, Doriane Pin, Sophia Flörsch - aren't the ones getting these sorts of tests.



#1217 LolaB0860

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Posted 27 September 2023 - 14:27

Cynical part of me says they just chose her over someone better because of her looks

 

I mean whether that's true or not, this thing is 100% just PR stunt. People who follow this sort of social media content most likely have no idea who these women are, other than it's female driver driving a formula car, so advertising people have one job


Edited by LolaB0860, 27 September 2023 - 14:27.


#1218 jonpollak

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Posted 27 September 2023 - 20:59

It seems strange and unfortunate to me that the most promising drivers right now - Maya Weug, Doriane Pin, Sophia Flörsch - aren't the ones getting these sorts of tests.



They’re too busy racing in their own series…
Thank goodness.
Jp

#1219 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 09:44

Cynical part of me says they just chose her over someone better because of her looks

 

I mean whether that's true or not, this thing is 100% just PR stunt. People who follow this sort of social media content most likely have no idea who these women are, other than it's female driver driving a formula car, so advertising people have one job

 

Say it quietely, but she may or may not be marketable because of her sexuality as well.



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#1220 68targa

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 09:49

I may be wrong here (shout me down) but I get the impression on this thread that all female drivers are considered rubbish (OK I haven't read all 25 pages) .  Sure, not to F1 standards but the those racing in WEC are good, solid and accomplished racers who regularly beat their male competitors. The Iron Dames squad are often in the top places and is seems too easy to downplay their efforts.  Given the ratio of male to female racers is it any wonder that so few make it up the ladder.  I am convinced that one day a real female star will emerge - just not sure when.



#1221 flatlandsman

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 09:59

The big issue you have in the UK is the mass media only is interested in F1, there have been numerous drivers who have done other things like rally, endurance and all sorts of racing that have been a success at the highest level in their sport. I can recall a junior short oval full contact formula years ago that was not just won but completely dominated by girls, they were awesome!

 

Iron Dames and Dorian Pin (plus a few others) are at the top of their game, they are doing far more for women in racing than anything Wolff, Jorda, Chadwick have done, why?  Because not only are they taking part and doing well, they are just good drivers, this was made clear to me after trying to get these young short oval girls some media, the parents were very keen to stress not the female angle but the fact they were just damn good drivers.

 

That's is really all that should matter in the end. 



#1222 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 10:20

I may be wrong here (shout me down) but I get the impression on this thread that all female drivers are considered rubbish (OK I haven't read all 25 pages) .  Sure, not to F1 standards but the those racing in WEC are good, solid and accomplished racers who regularly beat their male competitors. The Iron Dames squad are often in the top places and is seems too easy to downplay their efforts.  Given the ratio of male to female racers is it any wonder that so few make it up the ladder.  I am convinced that one day a real female star will emerge - just not sure when.

I won't shout you down, but I would suggest you're mistaken, at least for some of us posters here. Just to focus on the drivers I referenced in my post above, I'm convinced Weug, Pin and Flörsch will have strong careers - not in F1, indeed, but in other top series. Pin, of course, is already doing a sterling job in LMP2, and Flörsch did a very decent job in LMP2 in 2021.


Edited by Muppetmad, 28 September 2023 - 10:24.


#1223 Disgrace

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 10:25

Yeah, there's a lot of cheer for the Iron Dames on this forum and hope that one of them will find their way to the hypercar class before long.



#1224 flatlandsman

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 11:35

When you consider the clamour for female participants in motorsport and the very average job a lot of them do despite good drives and massive column inches, the fact that there are several in the top echelons of endurance racing that seem to largely go under the radar is to me almost  a joke!

 

I see on social media loads of stuff form all sorts of female drivers and they are last third nearly all the time. I know it is great being out there, but I have also seen a lot of posts past mid season of them losing rides or drives.  You cannot just be seen,m you have to be god or making progress, and sadly I think all too often PR hype is all this is.

 

When you consider what these women in WEC, ELMS, IMSA are doing I find it rather a shame that it is not more widely covered, but then again, if it was, would it be worthy coverage or would it just be usual media, "look at this girl in a mans world" rubbish it usually is.

 

Personally I think Iron Dames have moved past that much as Mouton did in her time. As have several others. 



#1225 Risil

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 11:37

When it comes to engagement with mainstream coverage F1 might as well be a different sport.

#1226 68targa

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 12:46

When you consider the clamour for female participants in motorsport and the very average job a lot of them do despite good drives and massive column inches, the fact that there are several in the top echelons of endurance racing that seem to largely go under the radar is to me almost  a joke!

 

I see on social media loads of stuff form all sorts of female drivers and they are last third nearly all the time. I know it is great being out there, but I have also seen a lot of posts past mid season of them losing rides or drives.  You cannot just be seen,m you have to be god or making progress, and sadly I think all too often PR hype is all this is.

 

When you consider what these women in WEC, ELMS, IMSA are doing I find it rather a shame that it is not more widely covered, but then again, if it was, would it be worthy coverage or would it just be usual media, "look at this girl in a mans world" rubbish it usually is.

 

Personally I think Iron Dames have moved past that much as Mouton did in her time. As have several others. 

As I said, I have not read all 26 pages on this topic and so I  am glad to see that I may be mistaken. I agree that when mainstream media mentions motorsport it really means F1 and forgets there is so much more.



#1227 Jellyfishcake

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Posted 28 September 2023 - 20:19

As I said, I have not read all 26 pages on this topic and so I  am glad to see that I may be mistaken. I agree that when mainstream media mentions motorsport it really means F1 and forgets there is so much more.

 

Yeah, I think the general positon (though might be wrong) is that a lot of W Series (and Maybe now F1Academy) ones have far higher hype than they ought to thanks to the association with F1, and arguably misleading marketing of the level the car is at, that isn't to say they are all bad, and I think some are young enough to develop into solid drivers in mixed categories. 

 

But that in other series there are some names that really don't get the credit they deserve. Of the ones on the single seaters ladder I think both Weug and Flörsch are doing a decent job (both only drivers in their teams to score points this season), I suspect Flörsch will eventually stick with and carve out a solid endurance career rather than go higher than F3. 


Edited by Jellyfishcake, 28 September 2023 - 20:20.


#1228 FLB

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Posted 02 October 2023 - 22:36

The cars are for sale: W Series Limited - Joint Administrators Launch Business and Asset Sale Process - Wyles Hardy & Co



#1229 Rodaknee

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Posted 05 October 2023 - 04:32

This has to be opening for William Storey to buy up the whole shooting match and start his own series.

 

I can see it now, "The Rich Energy Dodgy Geezer Series".