20 replies to this topic

[D-Type]

While looking for something else I noticed a couple of things about the Aintree grid that I have either forgotten about or never noticed.
Firstly, the start/finish line was positioned very close to the exit of Tatts Corner, so close that the greater part of the grid was on the curve of the bend.  Was this because of a desire to locate it close to the County Grandstand perhaps?

Secondly, although it was a clockwise circuit, pole position was on the left, ie on the outside, of the track although the first bend, Waterway, was to the right.  This is unusual as pole is generally on the inside of the first bend.  In practice this would make very little difference as  the distance from the start line to Waterway was about 3/4 of a mile.  What was the reason, if any, for this anomaly?

Any ideas?

[Collombin]

I know Aintree was originally an anti-clockwise track, which might explain the position of the start/finish line at least.

[Stephen W]

The Start & Finish line was adjacent to the pits as was the normal practice at most circuits.

[Catalina Park]

The Start & Finish line was adjacent to the main Grandstand as was the normal practice at most circuits shared with horse tracks.

[Tim Murray]

It used to be very similar at Silverstone, with the grids stretching back around Woodcote. When the grids were enormous (F3/FF/BTCC etc) I used to wonder how the tailenders at the back knew the race had started.

[Porsche718]

The Start & Finish line was adjacent to the pits as was the normal practice at most circuits.

 

Almost ... but not quite correct ..

 

The start line was just before the pit lane entry, but the finish line was half-way along the pits - perhaps 100 yards further up the track.

 

I get the impression from video and photos that the finish line seems to line up with the finish line for the horse racing track. Approx. where "the Chair" obstacle was located on the steeple chase course.

[Michael Ferner]

From what I have learned about American fairground ovals, the finishing line is always dictated by the grandstand location. This occasionally leads to very strange, sometimes even dangerous situations - at Lakewood Speedway in Atlanta/GA, for example, the finishing line was so close to the first corner that a number of accidents, at least one of which was fatal to the driver, happened after the finish of a race!

[Michael Ferner]

It used to be very similar at Silverstone, with the grids stretching back around Woodcote. When the grids were enormous (F3/FF/BTCC etc) I used to wonder how the tailenders at the back knew the race had started.
 

 

Easy - crescendo plus smoking tyres = floor it!!

[opplock]

Easy - crescendo plus smoking tyres = floor it!!

 

Quite right. From position 46 on the downhill Spa grid the startline couldn't be seen and may well have been in the next province. 

[2F-001]

I recall reading a report, in Autosport of a chaotic combined F2/F3 race on the airfield circuit at Neubiberg (sp.?), where the finish line was inside the braking zone for a straw-bale chicane.

 

The implication was that the way to win a very closely fought race was to forego one's braking on the final lap and plough through the bales after taking the chequered flag.

[Michael Ferner]

Yes, I recall that, too! I read it in Powerslide, with accompanying photos iirc!

[PayasYouRace]

Regarding which side pole position was on, was that a choice at the time?

I remember reading about a later example. The 1977 Monaco Grand Prix. John Watson was on pole and picked one side of the grid, but later regretted it because it put his wheels over some freshly painted road markings which he blamed for losing the lead at the start.

Would that choice have been available at the time the OP is referring to?

[dolomite]

Didn’t Silverstone have additional lights partway down the grid for the benefit of the people starting at the back?

[LittleChris]

Didn’t Silverstone have additional lights partway down the grid for the benefit of the people starting at the back?

 

That' s what I thought too  ( Did they have someone with a Union Jack partway down the grid in the days before lights were used ?  )

[Derwent Motorsport]

They did and I think still do for events based at the old pits. Lots of club races have big entries.  I did the MG B 50 race ten years ago, (60 entries) and was half way down the grid and could not see the gantry.  I seem to think there were some on the end of the pit wall?

Edited by Derwent Motorsport, 01 February 2022 - 19:17.

[Porsche718]

Mount Panorama at Bathurst, Australia is the opposite.

 

The finish line is before the start line. The start line is about two thirds along Pit Straight, but the finish line is approx. one third down the straight.

 

This is because if the start/finish line was the same, the annual 1000 km race would actually be 1000.293 kilometers distance.

 

http://www.mount-pan...ack/the-circuit

 

Mount Panorama has extra start lights on the spectator bridge just after Murrays Corner, and on a gantry before Murrays. The 12 Hour race field is much larger so has probably 20 or so cars starting on Con-rod Straight. Just like the good old days of the "Hardie Ferodo 500" when 56 cars would start.

 

Also the grid at Mallala (in South Australia) has the rear of the grid extending through the tight Esses leading onto the start/finish straight. There are extra lights on poles so that the rear of the grid could see the start signal. The only problem was that immediately behind the lights (in the background) are all the administration/timing buildings, so on a wet or gloomy day the start lights would blend in with the lights from the buildings. Tricky!

 

The start/finish line is not far from KLG Corner and required heavy braking if you were involved in a last lap dash to the line with a fellow competitor.

Edited by Porsche718, 01 February 2022 - 21:37.

[cooper997]

Here's an illustrated map from 29 May 1954 Aintree 200 programme, showing the anti-clockwise setup as mentioned in post 2

 

 

I can dig out the clockwise 1955 British GP meeting map for comparison if there's any interest.

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Porsche718
Mount Panorama at Bathurst, Australia is the opposite.
 
The finish line is before the start line. The start line is about two thirds along Pit Straight, but the finish line is approx. one third down the straight.
 
This is because if the start/finish line was the same, the annual 1000 km race would actually be 1000.293 kilometers distance.....

The tongue is firmly planted in the cheek there?

Strangely, John Medley's book doesn't seem to address the reason, even though this situation has existed right from the beginning as far as I know.

[d j fox]

That' s what I thought too ( Did they have someone with a Union Jack partway down the grid in the days before lights were used ? )

Yes I think! I have a very vague memory of a Marshall standing on the bank with a small Union Jack halfway round the grid I could, however, be wrong.. it was a long time ago

[D-Type]

The grandstand seems the most plausible explanation for the start/finish line location.

Now, how about some ideas why pole was on the left, or outside of the track?

Edited by D-Type, 21 February 2022 - 18:22.

[Roger Clark]

I don't know the answer to this and couldn't find any mentions in contemporary race reports but I thought it might be instructive to seek out other examples of the Aintree convention.  At Monaco, pole position was on the left from 1963, when the start moved to be after the hairpin.  At Monza, pole position was on the left from 1958.