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Motorsport hooliganism


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#1 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:28

Was listening to the latest Missed Apex podcast, and they had an interesting chat about the creep of hooliganism into motorsport… I wondered what your thoughts were on it?

Obviously this has the danger of turning into a slanging match here… and I don’t want that to happen, but I think it’s an interesting observation. It’s undoubtably a symptom of the social media age we are currently in… I mean there’s always been driver rivalries, but I’m not sure it’s ever been as tribal as it is just now.

We currently have Hamilton and Verstappen as the two main stars of F1 and so it’s probably their fans who are more in the spotlight… but I don’t remember say Hakkinen and Schumacher fans being so antagonistic to each other, but that’s not to say it didn’t happen. I know in Schumachers case in particular he came in for a lot of cop from the UK media - based on his collisions with Hill and Villeneuve and also undeniably due to his nationality… but I also knew a lot of British Schumacher fans. And at the track there was always a community feel to motorsport fans, who in the main are there to enjoy motorsport rather than a particular driver.

On the podcast they said they felt like the current top two drivers have levels of support in their home countries that are so phenomenal, but a lot of those fans are fans of the drivers and won’t necessarily continue following F1 once they leave F1. We’ve seen that with Alonso and Schumacher where the Spanish and German fanbase fell off a cliff after they left the sport (or left the top of the sport in alonsos case)

I’ve always been primarily a fan of F1 but have had drivers I’ve enjoyed watching more than others, Hakkinen, Montoya and then since Montoya left I’ve more been a neutral really and just love the sport itself.

The hooliganism part comes into the social medias where you see a real toilet-wall style participation from fans when it comes to the ‘top’ drivers of the sport. I remember the term ‘glory hunters’ being thrown at many Schumacher fans years ago, and I guess there will always be an element of that. Not sure I’d take up watching an entire sport though just because a fellow countryman was taking part… seems like a bit of a stretch?

Anyway - it’s been a few years since I was physically at a race, but is there still a good mixing of the fans or is it tribal at the tracks these days?

Again - this isn’t aimed at fans of any driver in particular so I’m hoping we don’t get dragged into the usual VS style dirge… I guess we’ll see!

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#2 absinthedude

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:32

I think it is more of a tribal thing entering F1, which I don't recall being much of a thing in the past.

 

Like....if you support Hamilton you are now supposed to hate Max....and if you're a Max fan you're supposed to hate Hamilton. 

 

It's all rather sad and childish. While there was criticism levelled at some Schumacher fans who only seemed to support him when he was winning everything...there wasn't that level of hatred....at least not that I recall. Some fans disliked MSC for his on-track actions but there wasn't this level of hate being spread. And yes, I was on the internet then. My use of the internet predates the web, and I must have discovered Usenet before web forums were even a thing. 



#3 Zoe

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:32

There were always fans you could describe as hooligans. Remember Senna at Silverstone once, hitching a ride back to the pits and having to fend off angry fans? Or is my memory fading me?

 

And in general with "social" media around, it tends to get out the worst in people. IMO of course but there you go.



#4 Collombin

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:35

There were always fans you could describe as hooligans. Remember Senna at Silverstone once, hitching a ride back to the pits and having to fend off angry fans? Or is my memory fading me?


I thought it was a marshal trying to get him off the car, leading Senna to kick out at him? I was at Copse so didn't see it first hand though.

#5 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:37

I think it is more of a tribal thing entering F1, which I don't recall being much of a thing in the past.

Like....if you support Hamilton you are now supposed to hate Max....and if you're a Max fan you're supposed to hate Hamilton.

It's all rather sad and childish. While there was criticism levelled at some Schumacher fans who only seemed to support him when he was winning everything...there wasn't that level of hatred....at least not that I recall. Some fans disliked MSC for his on-track actions but there wasn't this level of hate being spread. And yes, I was on the internet then. My use of the internet predates the web, and I must have discovered Usenet before web forums were even a thing.


I remember Schumacher (both of them, come to think of it) getting some very unsavoury things levelled at him on F1 forums back ‘in the day’… probably beyond anything any of the F1 drivers of the current day. But I think it was more a group of internet trolls rather than F1 fans…. Anyone on itv-F1/mb will have seen some rather interesting and outrageous goings on.

But wasn’t at the level/numbers of todays stuff by any stretch.

#6 Risil

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:38

F1 is a long way off the rioting that accompanied the Euro 2021 final. Social media is adversarial and elicits extreme reactions but it takes other stuff to bring violence and organized crime in.



#7 OvDrone

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 20:53

The tribalism is a symptom of all these general poisons within our current cultural collective, and I don't it stabilizing until culture does as well.

I am a big Hamilton supporter, ( not a fan, fans are fanatics imo ) yet I see Max as one of those most likeable other drivers not only in F1 but in all Motorsport right now. I believe he is a delightful kid and I wish him success in any Motorsport endeavor he pursues.

Even if he does drive like a desperate jackass at times.

My issue is with the people around him and his team. To my perception that group dynamic around him is toxic and I just cannot stomach Jos, Marko, Horner, Wheatley, etc. 
Do I hate them ? No. Hate is utterly useless. It's just my perception from my time following the sport - maybe with the origin in my past Webber support and Jos being a d**k on the track.

It does make following the Championship much, much less enjoyable. The clearly race-driven boos in Hungary and the extreme patriotic tribalism displayed both in Zandvoort AND Silverstone - makes me turn away from watching this asap.

I remember going to Grand Prix in the early 2000s and getting so sick of all the drunken Mika/Kimi supporters, Maca diehards or belligerent tifosis. They all sucked. 

So it's not new but it's worse in such an ill current social climate.
I'd wish fans would see the amazing inspiration both drivers have to share in spades, but I guess that proves my previous points - fans are fanatics.

And I am staying far away from any F1 social media on fb, ig etc. Especially on everything Hamilton related it's or blatant racism or pathetic vinegar contempt born of self-loathing. 



#8 William Hunt

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 21:29

The Prost Versus Senna era had two very distinct camps, don't know if any agression between their fans ever took place



#9 P123

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 21:34

I remember DC referring to keeping his crash helmet on after a retirement at Monza due to being gobbed on by some of the wonderfully passionate Tifosi, and recall reading about some rancour between Schumacher and Hill fans at a campsite at Spa.  There will always be some idiots but I don't think there has ever been any great issues at a track. Some pantomime boos. And even at Zandvoort, although they were all there for Max, it seemed fairly respectable.  Contrary to the online world, where F1 fans really do not show up too well!



#10 F1 Mike

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:03

I've started to accept the boos at the track as something similar to football, but I don't think fans in general are quite as harsh as when in a football ground. To me it shows passion for the sport and I think those with extreme opinions on the likes of Facebook and Twitter are just a minority and many are simply immature as well.

#11 fifi

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:07

last race i was at was silverstone 2019 and walking from one of the various campsite car parks i was wearing a ferrari hat and a woman and her child decked out in merc gear she pointed my hat out to the kid and said something like ooo we dont like them do we

i kinda just glared and would have told her to go **** herself but i was being polite due to the kid



#12 Collombin

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:11

Is that story meant to show you in a positive light?

#13 azza200

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:24

The toxic attitudes you see of certain both Hamilton and Max fanbases is awful. They are now repeating the same old crap about the final race and what happened bringing non issues into it but now there is more who are telling them to shut the f up and get over it.

 

Back in the day i was a Hill fan but didn't like Shumacher but at the time didn't realize what Michael was doing was making F1 history during those years and into the 00 with his legacy. Did i ever wish hate on him No. Did i ever belittle him nope not to the extent the toxicity the fanbase between Max and Lewis is these days on social media. Which is frankly embarrassing too look and read when Hamilton trends again about him not becoming champion i facepalm at it now 


Edited by azza200, 07 February 2022 - 22:28.


#14 jjcale

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:38

Sorry to link to PF1  https://www.planetf1.com/news/christijan-albers-fans-should-not-boo-drivers/

 

With Lewis Hamilton once again booed by a crowd, former F1 driver Christijan Albers says that sort of behaviour does “not belong” in Formula 1. 



#15 jjcale

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:42

And then we seem to have a new category ... the toxic "anti-toxics" .... the pearl clutching "everyone is below me with their toxic fandom" crowd ... 



#16 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 22:58

Back in the day i was a Hill fan but didn't like Shumacher but at the time didn't realize what Michael was doing was making F1 history during those years and into the 00 with his legacy. Did i ever wish hate on him No. Did i ever belittle him nope not to the extent the toxicity the fanbase between Max and Lewis is these days on social media. Which is frankly embarrassing too look and read when Hamilton trends again about him not becoming champion i facepalm at it now

You have to remember that social media didn't exist back then though. So everything now - in terms of toxicity - is enhanced because of the ability for everyone to be heard publicly. Facebook and reddit comments sections are a disgrace at the best of times. A cesspool at it's worst. But had they existed in the 90's, it would have been just as bad. Perhaps worse.

Imagine just how bad it would have become through Benettons shenanigans in 1994, Sennas death, Schumacher and Hills collision and subsequent trashing of each other thereafter. Then the same with Villeneuve. Man social media would have been wild.

It's funny the OP mentioned Schumacher and Hakkinen. Because I doubt there would have been any peace until they became rivals in 1998!

#17 WonderboyF1

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:05

Last season was the most intense title battle we’ve seen in 20+ Years, racist comments were not uncommon to see online. The same people making these comments would never dream of saying them in public or at the race track in real life… I’ve been a fan of the sport all my life and it’s good to see it becoming more popular than ever and having conversations with work colleagues who genuinely seem interested due to the drive to survive effect and last seasons epic battle. F1 was mostly seen as a niche sport but I enjoyed the passion last year supporting Lewis and although I was bitterly disappointed in the end I didn’t feel the need to make unkind remarks on social media about Max, who himself has brought a whole new type of fan to the sport which we haven’t seen before, they gather in large orange crowds drink lots of Heineken use flares and listen to questionable dance music. You make your own decision as to call them hooligans or not, I will judge it on if they still are ‘fans’ of the sport when Max leaves or is uncompetitive machinery.

#18 Stephane

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:15

And then we seem to have a new category ... the toxic "anti-toxics" .... the pearl clutching "everyone is below me with their toxic fandom" crowd ... 

:rotfl:



#19 se7en_24

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:22

At Imola in the 90s I got booed and stuff thrown at me at the bottom of Tosa by thousands of fans as I walked past with a Damon Hill flag. It was a mixture of Tifosi and Schumacher fans. I loved it!  :lol:

 

It's always been the case when there are big F1 rivalries. Like everything though these days more sedentary armchair fans hear about it on social media than they would have 20-30 years ago and think it's something new.


Edited by se7en_24, 07 February 2022 - 23:23.


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#20 se7en_24

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:25

There were always fans you could describe as hooligans. Remember Senna at Silverstone once, hitching a ride back to the pits and having to fend off angry fans? Or is my memory fading me?

 

Yes it is (along with unconscious bias :p ). For British F1 fans that was one of the most iconic days and images ever. Someone went over in a friendly way, but Senna kicked him away.

 

https://youtu.be/OiG7vNlmp5c?t=103

 

(My memory is fading also as I thought it was a marshall)


Edited by se7en_24, 07 February 2022 - 23:37.


#21 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:30

Maybe it's something related to age? 

While younger I was a die hard Schumacher supporter. After that, Felipe, Lewis and Mark Webber, then Alonso, Perez and now Max.

I can't understand (at this age) this "I hate driver x thing". There's stuff I don't like from every person (myself included), but I've grown to appreciate one's qualities. Hell, I even like Vettel now...



#22 Silverstone96

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:43

I remember going to races in Europe during the peak schumi Ferrari era and some of his fans could be quite intimidating.

Also recall the Alonso fans having an unhealthy hatred for Hamilton for many years, at spa 2007 I remember a group of them booing Hamilton every time he came past during practice and qualifying. Pretty pathetic really.

There will always be tribes of national fans but I’ve never seen it break out into violence.

If Max v Lewis had happened in the 90’s the divide between their fans would have been pretty similar but social media only amplifies this now.

#23 ANF

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Posted 07 February 2022 - 23:55

Well, I hope we will never see scenes like this before an F1 race...




#24 r4mses

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 00:54

Well, "the media" is trying to hype up some rivalary between drivers even if there's nothing unusual as well as painting people as certain characters just to hype up their ****. I'm looking at you, Netflix et al.



#25 WOT

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 02:40

I was raised as a sportsman. My Dad would take me to a game of football or cricket and we would clap to show our appreciation as the home team ran onto the field and we clap to show our appreciation as the away team ran onto the field. We would clap as either team showed skills and moves that warranted appreciation.
 
I started following MotorSport in 1962 and very fortunately happened to have a strong bond due to the kindness and graciousness of one Jim Clark, and I was an avid follower. In 1968, that all disastrously changed for me. I withdrew from the sport only to return with a view that I would never again show undue favouritism or following for any one particular driver.
 
I haven't changed my views to this day and I support the underdog as much as the champion. I still cheer good moves on the circuit by any driver, just as I chastise poor moves by any driver. I want to see clean, fair racing and I long to see a time where anyone on the grid can have a crack at taking the chequered flag. Mind you, that hasn't happened in a very long time. 
 
With regard to hooliganism in F1, it's been around for a fair while. But it's increase is proportional to the advances in the scourge of the world today, Social Media. It allows really "brave" individuals to hide behind a keyboard and make poisonous threats and spread lies that will incite like minded misinformed confederates to propagate this rubbish into a frenzy. 
 
In general I think the majority of fans today are fairly good hearted. Booing has been around for some time, but probably more prevalent today, particularly at a podium situation. I think this is more indicative of the fanatical one sided fans as opposed to that of sportsmanship.


#26 Aaaarrgghh

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 07:17

The Prost Versus Senna era had two very distinct camps, don't know if any agression between their fans ever took place

I haven't heard if the Prost fans were ever that antagonist towards Senna, but didn't Prost hire security because he received death threats ahead of a race in Brazil? I also seem to remember the crowd continuously shouting insults towards him. So I don't think that these things are new. Though it might well be easier for the antagonism to surface on internet forums and the like, where you don't sit face to face with the people you argue with. If Senna and Prost fans had an internet forum back in the day, I believe there would have been some very severe antagonism. I doubt that any real violence has taken place between fans to a significant degree.


Edited by Aaaarrgghh, 08 February 2022 - 07:18.


#27 TheFish

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 07:31

F1 is a long way off the rioting that accompanied the Euro 2021 final. Social media is adversarial and elicits extreme reactions but it takes other stuff to bring violence and organized crime in.

Organised crime seems a bit excessive. I was there and it wasn't the most fun or well organised event I've been to, but it was mostly kids trying to get in without tickets that was the problem. And no police anywhere close to the ground.

 

Back on topic, last season was excessive in terms of the passion displayed by both sides. The outcome isn't going to help quell that this season either. But we've had plenty of situations of booing and aggression in the past. So whilst it probably is at a high level at the minute, I think it's more because of the situation we had last year. If we get a Sainz v Norris title battle this season, I wouldn't expect it to be anything like last year in terms of fans etc.



#28 PlayboyRacer

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 07:36

If we get a Sainz v Norris title battle this season, I wouldn't expect it to be anything like last year in terms of fans etc.

Good point. A quick look back through some rivalries and title battles will show that the more polarizing the drivers involved, the more heated it gets. Throw in some controversy and it's like throwing petrol on a fire.

#29 balage06

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 07:36

I think this problem always arises when a country which usually has nobody to root for in said sport suddenly gets a championship contender to cheer for. For example, when Norbert Michelisz has become a race winner and then championship contender in WTCC/WTCR, I've seen the same thing, the grandstands at the Hungaroring were full of those "football hooligan" type of fans, wearing jumpers of our national team and "armed" with gas horns and stuff. And of course, the big teams and the popular drivers have become the arch enemies, trying to oppress our poor hero from our tiny country... And if you dared to wear merch from any other team/driver, you got verbally abused for it at minimum.



#30 CoolBreeze

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 07:54

F1 is not at the level of football to have hooligans. That's a completely different level. As far as i'm concerned the 'hooliganism' we see in F1 is just a mild banter.



#31 Peat

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 08:05

Formula One is enjoying some mainstream popularity again (Netflix effect?) so there has been an influx of new fans who are just a slice of the general public, who as we all know, are awful. 

I remember when the World Series by Renault was a free/giveaway ticket event at Silverstone, it attracted huge crowds. Seemingly mainly people who had never been to a motor race before. I attended as a punter, but was doing some marshalling around the time and heard stories of people trying to wander onto the track between races, kids climbing the catch fencing and one guy (marshal) even had all his coolbox nicked from behind him whilst on post. 

My point is - there will always be a proportion of morons, so the wider you cast your net, the more you will have. 



#32 Beri

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 08:06

The transition over the past two decades, give or take, is apparent. Ever when I first went to a Formula One race, it was at Spa during the heyday of some German bloke in the late 90's. I thought Germany did invade Belgium at that time. That is how surprised I was at the presence of so many Germans around Spa.

But that never resultred into trouble. In fact, the bratwurst, bier, schnitzels and apfelschorle were shared by the tonnes by all of them. The gentle atmosphere and enthousiastic crowds never posed any hooliganism. And this went on, at least, till the '10's. Crowds changed, drivers came and went. Spanish, Polish, English, German, French and Dutch fans invaded the Spa surroundings and still there were no signs of said hooliganism.

 

Yet forward 10 years, to this day, and there is a fierce and tense atmosphere at places, to say the least. The only big change, in society, is Social Media. And more I need not to add.



#33 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 10:09

I think it is more of a tribal thing entering F1, which I don't recall being much of a thing in the past.

 

Like....if you support Hamilton you are now supposed to hate Max....and if you're a Max fan you're supposed to hate Hamilton. 

 

It's all rather sad and childish. While there was criticism levelled at some Schumacher fans who only seemed to support him when he was winning everything...there wasn't that level of hatred....at least not that I recall. Some fans disliked MSC for his on-track actions but there wasn't this level of hate being spread. And yes, I was on the internet then. My use of the internet predates the web, and I must have discovered Usenet before web forums were even a thing. 

 

I agree. Sadly, the 'tribal' idea is fostered in all areas of life today. It's a great way to market things to people, be it products services, politicians, whatever. When people are free to choose, they become ever more the target for influencers (in the general sense) and that is what we see everywhere.

 

F1 is not immune to this. If you make people more partisan, then they become more passionate and it's much easier to sell to them and also makes outsiders more curious to find out what is going on (introducing the possibility to sell to them too).

 

It's not a symptom of social media. It's just that social media makes it much easier.


Edited by pdac, 08 February 2022 - 10:10.


#34 BRG

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 10:25

A bit of a non-story really.  Yes, there are and have long been, fervent camps of supporters of a team or a driver.  The serried ranks of red-clad Ferrari supporters at races - not just Monza, you saw them at Silverstone and elsewhere too - are far from a new thing.  Generally good humoured though, but there was always some loonies in there.  Damon Hill had a police escort at Hockenheim in 1994  after credible death threats were made, but that was perhaps more from a Schumacher 'fan' than a Ferrari one.  None of this is new.

 

With rival drivers, rival teams  and with nationalism thrown in for good measure, there are bound to be the odd flare-up. Currently, we have all three of those with the added seasoning of racism, which we didn't really have before.  But still, nearly all of this is on-line nonsense with track-side behaviour still remaining good natured.  I do not see a football style hooliganism breaking out.  For one thing, at a football match, you are either there to support one team or the other,  there are no neutrals to speak of.  At a motor race there are supporters of all the teams and drivers (even Mazepin) plus a healthy dose of motor racing enthusiasts with no strong affinity to any team or driver.  



#35 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 10:37

It is societal but has been amplified by Liberty's pursuit of younger (note: immature) fans and F1 as a whole (drivers, teams, media) seemingly conducting all of its fan engagement and interaction exclusively on Twitter.



#36 monolulu

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:13

The definition of a hooligan is a “violent young trouble maker”, a few may overlap with the toxic individuals on social media but I don’t think there’s been much evidence amongst fans at the races. I have been to Monza several times in recent years, sat amongst the tifosi in my Lewis gear & have always felt welcome. The booing & chanting at Lewis I’ve got used to!



#37 jjcale

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:16

Its partisan ... but its pro LH and against LH .... Its not MV v LH .... if there was another person challenging LH from another team he would have similar support.

 

Only the new Dutch and a minority of general fans are "passionate" MV fans ... pretty much everyone respects him as a very good driver ... but he is not some kind of engaging personality ... he is a racing nerd who does very little not associated with racing of some kind (as far as the public are aware). He is not of any kind of inspiring background -  He is the privileged son of a former driver who grew up mostly in Monaco(?). His dad is not an appealing character - he is a bit of a head case with a record for domestic abuse and some of his dealings with MV in earlier years sound a lot like child abuse .... his girlfriend is the ex partner of another Redbull driver (with whom she has a kid) and she is the daughter of possibly the most unpopular multi-WDC - but she is stunning, I'll give her that!  There is not a lot to love about MV. If you are not Dutch and inspired by some sort of patriotism (or as Whoopi would say "tribalism") its hard to see why you would be passionate about MV.... put it this way - do these folks really love hard aggressive racing that much?? ... OK - where are all the Maldonado fans?   

 

The best thing about MV his "plain spokenness" ... but even that is mostly a counterpoint to the sometimes cloying nature of LH's overly processed public persona.  

 

LH on the other hand is ever harder to like ... and I say that as a fan from before day 1 ... he seems frankly fake, and shallow ... but somehow he seems to think he is qualified to preach to the world - in often a complete lack of self awareness about his own position ... I can understand why a lot of people really cant stand him. 

 

And then there is all the winning ... to paraphrase DJT - he's won so much we've got tired of him winning ... and as one of the "hooligans" who booed SV back he was "winning too much" I can fully understand this sentiment - if you are not a fan, it must be really annoying seeing LH win roughly half of the races of the Turbo-Hybrid era in what was often a superior car partnered with very good but not great drivers as team mates.

 

And then there is the politics ... now this I can really understand ... I hate LH's politics and it has tested my fandom ... and even though I am black I hate the BLM ceremony before the races (I actually dont watch anything pre-race anymore because of this) - explaining why is a long story for another time ...  my point is I can fully understand how LH being the apparent catalyst for bringing "wokeness" into F1 must really grind the gears of some people. ... so from 2020 when they started the BLM foolishness I knew LH was going to get booed as soon as they allowed crowds back in to watch the races ... what happened this year was no surprise to me.   

 

And of course LH is black - which is not an issue for most people but it is an issue on its own for a small minority - and it matters to a larger (but still relatively small) minority, but only in conjunction with other issues ... and there are other issues!

 

Nobody ever mentions sexuality with LH - but that is an issue too ... he has gone from being "a wannabe gangster" in terms of his image to being hyper metrosexual ... which a lot of men do not like, to say the least - let just be real for a minute. ... this is also a factor. F1 is very male dominated, male focused and pretty masculine in its outlook ... this guy dressing up in "strange clothes" (as FA said) every other week does not go down well.... I dont care what anybody says about individuality and modern times etc, most guys are not cool with it.... I am not saying if LH is good or bad or if the most common response to his "style" is good or bad .. I am just stating facts as I see them. 

 

So we had a perfect storm for a guy to get booed at pretty much every race ... its not about MV v LH ... it was just about LH.... the Dutch Army were there to support MV - but that didnt mean that they were going to boo anyone competing strongly against him (look at how nice Dutch Football fans are...). And LH got booed even when the Dutch Army did not turn up in force.... Even the organisers of F1, and journos and team principals wanted to see a new WDC (but that is for another thread) so no one was really sticking up for LH .. it was like, in a way, the more boisterous fans had permission to do as they did. Even when LH was blatantly robbed by "poor officiating" in AD pretty much everyone who matters in F1 pretty much just shrugged and said "sometimes youre lucky, and sometimes youre not..."

 

Will there be more booing and toxicity this year ... no,   .... a lot people got what they wanted. They saw the colossus fall ... and if F1 scraps the ceremony and LH tones his "individuality" and his preachiness down a bit, it could turn around ... most people who follow F1 understand the unfairness of what happened to him in AD. If he comes back and plays into a kind of redemption arc narrative - there will be a positive reaction.... the general fan base is that shallow. Esp a lot of the newer fans ... they are not racing fans (at least not yet) they are just here for the "action" and the drama.      



#38 fifi

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:17

Is that story meant to show you in a positive light?

if thats aimed at me, then my answer is i really dont care, i dont expect to get any kind of what i perceive as abuse anywhere and when i do i will react in a way i see fit



#39 jonpollak

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:30

F1 is a long way off the rioting that accompanied the Euro 2021 final. Social media is adversarial and elicits extreme reactions but it takes other stuff to bring violence and organized crime in.


Agree.
Aside from sporting Nationalism (which I don’t have a problem with) In my 50+years of race going I’ve never witnessed anything that could be misconstrued as ‘bovvver’.

The problem is society in its modern form and has little to do with racing.

Jp

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#40 Collombin

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:36

if thats aimed at me, then my answer is i really dont care, i dont expect to get any kind of what i perceive as abuse anywhere and when i do i will react in a way i see fit


It sounded more like good natured banter (assuming you were even meant to overhear it in the first place), and an eff you response would have been disproportionately aggressive. Maybe it was worse than it sounded, but I can only go by what you wrote.

#41 noikeee

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:36

And then we seem to have a new category ... the toxic "anti-toxics" .... the pearl clutching "everyone is below me with their toxic fandom" crowd ... 

 
I wouldn't go that far but the whole "oooohhh motorsport fans are so much more well civilised than the neanderthals of football" snobby crap does get on my nerves.
 
Also, things are more tribal now and a bit heated compared to the previous decade, I guess that does pose some risks, but "hooliganism" is taking the absolute piss. What we have is a bunch of nerds online that write bad things on Twitter about Max Verstappen or Lewis Hamilton, and a few fairly wealthy people that watched Netflix and want to join the bandwagon and pay lots of money for criminally overpaid circuit seats whilst dressed themselves in all-orange or #Blessed#Team#44# attire. "Hooliganism" was a bunch of organizations of thugs that would schedule fights in advance against their opposition (!) and would get into such violent brawls that people would get seriously injured or even dead in numbers.
 
Little bit of rivalry is good. Ignore the urge to try to correct every stupid "fan" opinion online, turn off the TV and the news and all the F1 "content" midweek, and enjoy the races on the weekend that have been seasoned by a touch of spice from the rivalries. Life is good.


#42 jonpollak

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:39

Little bit of rivalry is good. Ignore the urge to try to correct every stupid "fan" opinion online, turn off the TV and the news and all the F1 "content" midweek, and enjoy the races on the weekend that have been seasoned by a touch of spice from the rivalries. Life is good.


Thank you.
Jp

#43 Giz

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 11:43

Hooliganism is far too strong a word

 

I cant imagine firms of fans of any one team or driver travelling around the world to meet up and have a fight with other groups.

 

edit see Noikees post 2 up - what he said


Edited by Giz, 08 February 2022 - 11:45.


#44 jpm2019

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:01

The world is more polarised then it was. Social media are a way to strenghten this. Anonymously ofcourse. The demographics of the F1 fan are very different to other sports. Also the more expensive things are you could argue the more sane the people would be. 

So I am not worried at all. Online it will only get worse I fear. Also because F1 is getting a new followers base online. 



#45 Fastcake

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:13

I’m not a fan of the outbreaks of booing that consistently cropped up last year, and I do hope (probably in vain) that it will disappear again.

#46 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:18

I think it's a mixture of things.

 

Increase in social media to show anything believed to be 'bad sportsmanship'.

 

There are a good chunk of people who have never really seen such an intense, partisan rivalry in F1 - I don't think we've really had this since Senna/Prost (arguably Hill/Schumacher).

 

I also think that people in motorsport are a bit oversensitive to booing. I would never personally boo nor would I condone it, but I don't get offended by it. It's clearly all a bit of panto. You can't really compare it to the aggression you get in football/soccer (for example).

 

Formula 1 is trying to open itself up to a wider fanbase, and with that you will open it up to people from all walks of life. Attending an F1 race is still generally more 'civilised', if you want to call it that, than most sports - but you will always have people who are drunk, disorderly and aggressive. I think it's a bit snobby to suggest that F1 is above that kind of thing, together with the booing.

 

I think the rivalry/booing/cheering stuff adds excitement to the whole spectacle - rather than everyone happy clapping. As long as there is no violence. Zandvoort last year was unbelievable, the support that Lewis gets at Silverstone is unbelievable. It's great to think that these drivers have 'away' races where the atmosphere will be intimidating. It all adds to the championship in my opinion.


Edited by IrvTheSwerve, 08 February 2022 - 12:47.


#47 Tombstone

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:27

Bottles were thrown on to the track at the 'controversial' British Grand Prix in 1976. So poor behaviour is nothing new.



#48 Claymore25

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:32

Well, the hatred to Vettel by the spanish press and some spanish fans is still there



#49 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 12:32

Bottles were thrown on to the track at the 'controversial' British Grand Prix in 1976. So poor behaviour is nothing new.

 

My first reaction was 'poor Valtteri' after reading your post.  :D



#50 DeKnyff

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Posted 08 February 2022 - 13:02

Well, the hatred to Vettel by the spanish press and some spanish fans is still there

 

Really? Hatred? Wow, this is a very strong word. Sure you can elaborate a bit more. I regularly follow some Spanish media and I've never noticed it.

 

You can't leave such a strong and generic accusation without any further explanation.