9 replies to this topic

[mcjohnson]

So there has been much discussion across a number of the forums around overtaking, so - rather than continuing the reflective exercise of whataboutery - it seems entirely more constructive to ask for everyone’s opinions on what they believe the rules should be for track limits & overtaking in the corner;

- who owns / gets priority in a corner?
- who should be allowed racing room, when and where?
- do track limits only matter if you gain a lasting advantage (and what does that actually mean?
- what are appropriate penalties?
- should long laps be introduced for corner infringements?

Thoughts…

[MKSixer]

So there has been much discussion across a number of the forums around overtaking, so - rather than continuing the reflective exercise of whataboutery - it seems entirely more constructive to ask for everyone’s opinions on what they believe the rules should be for track limits & overtaking in the corner;

- who owns / gets priority in a corner?
- who should be allowed racing room, when and where?
- do track limits only matter if you gain a lasting advantage (and what does that actually mean?
- what are appropriate penalties?
- should long laps be introduced for corner infringements?

Thoughts…

Not digging them out but I would surmise that the best place to start is with the Sporting Regulations regarding overtaking.

 

I will address the last option of long laps and say yes.

[noikeee]

- who owns / gets priority in a corner?

Nobody

 

- who should be allowed racing room, when and where?

If you have front wheels ahead of the rear wheels of the other car by corner entry. You have right to a space for at least one car. If not then you probably don't have the right to any space. Note - this interpretation doesn't make drivers who "divebomb" look good.

 

- do track limits only matter if you gain a lasting advantage (and what does that actually mean?

Yes except if you're doing it over and over again to gain laptime or to not get overtaken. That should count as gaining a lasting advantage too.

 

- what are appropriate penalties?

5 seconds, 10 seconds, drive through or stop and go depending on the severity of infrigement

 

- should long laps be introduced for corner infringements?

Absolutely not

[aportinga]

If you swing wide and leave a gap - you have to deal with it period - it's the way it's always been essentially.

[smitten]

So there has been much discussion across a number of the forums around overtaking, so - rather than continuing the reflective exercise of whataboutery - it seems entirely more constructive to ask for everyone’s opinions on what they believe the rules should be for track limits & overtaking in the corner;

- who owns / gets priority in a corner?
- who should be allowed racing room, when and where?
- do track limits only matter if you gain a lasting advantage (and what does that actually mean?
- what are appropriate penalties?
- should long laps be introduced for corner infringements?

Thoughts…

I have my own personal criteria when judging incidents (as that is when the question is brought into focus). 

 

You may not put your car into a space where is is reasonable to expect another car to be.

 

It's completely subjective. I recognise.  And I don't think we can codify it objectively as any attempts to be proscriptive inevitably leave more holes in the regulations.

 

So for a dive-bomb - could the car in front reasonably expect the car behind to try up the inside?  And for the car behind, could you reasonably expect the car ahead to leave space?

Same for track-limits - could you reasonable expect a car to be on your outside? if so then leave space.

[cpbell]

My thoughts:

 

-  If the car on the inside has greater than half a car-length overlap on the car on the outside, that driver has the right to take the apex without being chopped, though they will be penalised if contact is made with the car on the outside without first getting a half a car length overlap.

-  Also, the driver of the car on the inside is responsible for completing the overtake safely while giving the car on the outside a cars' width on exit unless they are certain that the other car has dropped behind them and no overlap remains.

-  The driver of the car on the outside must leave a cars' width at the apex if they are aware of the presence of the car on the inside (i.e. around the half a car overlap).

-  The driver of the car on the outside must try to avoid taking to the run-off on exit unless squeezed onto it while legitimately maintaining at least half a car of overlap.  If they are forced to use the run-off, they must drop back such that, at the next DRS detection point, they are over a second behind.  Failure to do this or using the run-off when the above condition is  not met will result in a penalty.

 

Penalties - for the driver on the inside making contact without a half car length overlap - drive-through penalty within three laps or 30 seconds added to race time.  For the driver on the outside turning-in when the driver on the inside has the necessary overlap, drive-through or 30 seconds added.  For squeezing the car on the outside on corner exit, 10 seconds added to race time.  If contact is made, or if both cars leave the track, drive-through or 30 seconds added.  For failing to drop back one second after using the run-off or using it without good cause, 10 seconds added.

Edited by cpbell, 10 February 2022 - 16:46.

[mcjohnson]

I have my own personal criteria when judging incidents (as that is when the question is brought into focus).

You may not put your car into a space where is is reasonable to expect another car to be.

It's completely subjective. I recognise. And I don't think we can codify it objectively as any attempts to be proscriptive inevitably leave more holes in the regulations.

So for a dive-bomb - could the car in front reasonably expect the car behind to try up the inside? And for the car behind, could you reasonably expect the car ahead to leave space?
Same for track-limits - could you reasonable expect a car to be on your outside? if so then leave space.

Surely this is too subjective; for example they would all expect Max to dive up the inside - does this mean he’s entitled more space, under this interpretation?

[shure]

I thought the rule was: if it's my driver who's involved, then whatever he does is right, but if it's another driver, throw the book at them.  Is that not it?

[smitten]

Surely this is too subjective; for example they would all expect Max to dive up the inside - does this mean he’s entitled more space, under this interpretation?

My rule is completely subjective - I acknowledge that, but lots of rules in lots of sports are subjective to a greater or lesser degree.  It that handball deliberate or accidental?, is that pass forward or flat?  did that double-axel have good form?  Is that walker actually running?

 

Trying not to get drawn into specific incidents as that would appear to be a slippery slope, but expecting a driver to daft things because he has a reputation is a nonsense but as we've seen at least allows you to fight another corner, and quite different from it being reasonable to expect a driver to do it because he's close "enough".

[pdac]

The guy on the inside should not, at any point stray more than 1 car width of the outside track limit until they are completely clear of other cars.