87 replies to this topic

[dia6olo]

The sprint race if like the Imola event and the crappy weather that went with it actually ruined the Sunday race for me with a good few teams not getting their setup right resulting in a bit of a lottery. Good for entertainment but not for the actual racing. At least not in my opinion.

[DaddyCool]

https://www.motorspo...nsion/10242506/

 

"Sources have indicated that FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem, who chaired the meeting, told participants that he was only willing to go ahead with having more sprints if a financial contribution was made to the governing body."

 

lmao

[boomn]

https://www.motorspo...nsion/10242506/

 

"Sources have indicated that FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem, who chaired the meeting, told participants that he was only willing to go ahead with having more sprints if a financial contribution was made to the governing body."

 

lmao

The wording of that makes it appear quite bad, like he's demanding a bribe.  But it sounds like the real issue is similar to what the teams have expressed: sprint races add costs for the FIA, and they're not thrilled with doing this for free just because F1 wants to get more viewing hours

[Dolph]

MBS: All right, we all know why we are here - to vote on having 6 sprint races in 2023. BUT!! More sprints will only go ahead if a suitable financial contribution will be made to the FIA!

 

TP: Why?

 

MBS: We have costs!

 

TP: Like what?

 

MBS: Additional cost due to sprint races.

 

TP: But we are having less practice so the number of sessions is actually reduced.

 

MBS: STILL, we have costs!

 

TP: Alright, what is your proposal then? How much?

 

MBS: I don't know. I haven't thought of that really.

[Ferrim]

If we are going to have sprint races, I would be okay with them as long as qualifying order -> Sunday starting order. For the sprint race, I would reverse the top 8 or top 10 from qualifying results. We should also have the second practice session between the sprint race and the main event.

 

This way, race starting order would be set on Friday performance, but teams would have data from the sprint and the second practice to adjust their setups for the main race, so actual speed on Sunday could be somewhat different and spice things up. The main issue I see is where to place FP2 - as they'll want to have the sprint on the usual timeslot for qualifying, so under my plan FP2 would have to be held either on Saturday evening or Sunday morning. 

[TheFish]

The wording of that makes it appear quite bad, like he's demanding a bribe.  But it sounds like the real issue is similar to what the teams have expressed: sprint races add costs for the FIA, and they're not thrilled with doing this for free just because F1 wants to get more viewing hours

What extra costs do they have? There's no extra running at the weekend.

[Peat]

6 confirmed for '23

https://www.fia.com/...media-statement

"With the first of three Sprint events of the 2022 season popular with fans and stakeholders last weekend at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix, Formula 1 and the teams were supportive of an extension to six Sprint events for the 2023 season, running with the same format as in 2022."
 

[ANF]

[face vomiting emoji]

[WouterF1]

6 confirmed for '23

https://www.fia.com/...media-statement

"With the first of three Sprint events of the 2022 season popular with fans and stakeholders last weekend at the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix, Formula 1 and the teams were supportive of an extension to six Sprint events for the 2023 season, running with the same format as in 2022."
 

 

 

While supporting the principle of an increased number of Sprint events, the FIA is still evaluating the impact of this proposal on its trackside operations and personnel,

and will provide its feedback to the Commission.

So, nothing is confirmed.

Edited by WouterF1, 27 April 2022 - 12:17.

[RedRabbit]

I genuinely don't like them, as it arbitrarily adds too extra importance to select weekends that can potentially have too much of an impact on the drivers championship.

It's unlikely, but entirely possible for a driver to DNF in both events for any number of reasons, while a direct rival wins both and gains a possible 34 points with fastest lap.

The gain of 9 additional points is just too much in one event.

The Sprint also offers a snap shot of the race, and while practice sessions are less, the information relevant to the main race actually increases for a teams rivals with regards to race pace, tire wear, top speed etc.

Maybe a race with reserve drivers for WCC points only could be an option? Be a good way for reserves to keep race sharp in F1 cars.

[Clatter]

The points system is annoying. To win the 3 sprints you get 24 points, 4% less than a grand Prix victory, yet three second places is 21 points, 17% more than a grand Prix 2nd place.

I would say that the races are a third distance, so roughly a third points should be available for each, meaning that essentially the three sprints are equivalent to one grand Prix in both distance and points value for the front runners.

Thus...
1st - 8 points
2nd - 6 points
3rd - 5 points
4th - 4 points
5th - 3 points
6th - 2 points
7th - 1 point
(Rest non score)

3 2nd places is 18 points.

[Clatter]

The wording of that makes it appear quite bad, like he's demanding a bribe. But it sounds like the real issue is similar to what the teams have expressed: sprint races add costs for the FIA, and they're not thrilled with doing this for free just because F1 wants to get more viewing hours

I'd like to see the figures. The sprint race is in place of an FP session, so can it really add that much to the FIA costs? Plus the FP sessions have been shortened, so the FIA have less work to do.

[Peat]

So, nothing is confirmed.

 

Ah, i see. 

Good that the FIA are being a stick in the mud on this, but I fear not for the reasons I would like. 

[Dolph]

3 2nd places is 18 points.

You are mistaken.

[KLF1F]

I like the sprint races. It's good to see the drivers going flat out rather than backing off / driving to a delta to save tyres. There, I said it.



(For context, I have been watching F1 since late 1980s).

[PayasYouRace]

You are mistaken.

 

3 x 6 = 18 Dolph.

[pacificquay]

3 x 6 = 18 Dolph.

It is, but you get 7 points for a sprint second as it stands 

[PayasYouRace]

It is, but you get 7 points for a sprint second as it stands 

 

Oh right. I see.

[Bouncing Pink Ball]

I can't stand the sprint races. What is the point of having an extra race tossed in between qualifying and the 'real' race?  I don't like it any series but they way it's done in F1, which is to curtail practice in hopes of creating random drama, makes the weekend feel gimmicky for me. It's also a chore to slog through too much F1 over a few days.

 

As awful as this sounds, I liked the 'old' F1. This versions of F1 we have 2022 feels, well, it feels too North American for me. I gravitated to F1 over any of the domestic NA series running over here because I liked the emphasis on real road courses, innovation and teams over ovals, temporary street circuits, parity and drivers/stars. Or that's how I saw F1 from a distance. I didn't grow up in the era of legendary F1 drivers but in the days of teams having long winning streaks and I loved all the aerodynamic tricks and team tactics.  I guess the changes are good for those who are pleased with the more fan-focused, bang-for-your-buck, driver-centric media delivery style but it's not for me. 

 

 

It feels like the aspects that drew me to F1 are being replaced with ones that appeal to a different audience. The sprint races are just another part of that.

[ANF]

Like I said in the Imola race thread, every sprint race so far has made me feel less excited about Sunday's race, because I've already seen a race the day before, and having qualifying so early in the weekend makes me feel less excited about qualifying. Sprint races ruin the excitement of a weekend build-up.

Liberty keep talking about making F1 weekends feel like the Super Bowl. Well, what's unique about the Super Bowl is that it's one game, not the usual American best-of-seven, and the finalists certainly don't play one quarter on the Saturday and four quarters on the Sunday!

[Dolph]

Like I said in the Imola race thread, every sprint race so far has made me feel less excited about Sunday's race, because I've already seen a race the day before, and having qualifying so early in the weekend makes me feel less excited about qualifying. Sprint races ruin the excitement of a weekend build-up.

 

 

Yes, you have seen a race before. BUT, all races results have been different to the sprint results. Meaning, the Grand Prix are not going to play out the same as the sprint. At least not based on the first 4 so far. In fact, only now was the first time the winner of both sprint and Grand Prix were the same driver. In all others even the winner has been different. And when I say now, I mean of course the Formula 1 Rolex Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2022 Sprint vs the Formula 1 Rolex Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2022 Race aka the Formula 1 Rolex Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2022 Grand Prix.

Edited by Dolph, 27 April 2022 - 21:04.

[PlatenGlass]

Just bumping this thread.

 

 

Also they now say the driver who tops qualifying will be "awarded pole position for statistical purposes" although the sprint winner will start the Grand Prix from pole, er, first place.

 

 

 

What about grid drops in non sprint weekends? Will "pole" still go to the fastest qualifier?

(E.g. a Schumacher Monaco 2012 situation.)

 

Charles Leclerc has an engine penalty so won't be able to start the race from the front, but could he still get "pole position"? In the past, no, but this year it seems that topping qualifying is the thing you need to do, and it's not about what happens after - e.g. not winning the sprint race, getting a penalty. So does the tweak that makes the sprint race irrelevant to the pole statistic also do the same thing to grid penalties?

[SenorSjon]

So with all those crypto companies enduring steep declines in value, will they be able to hold up on the Sprint Race deal of what, 100m in 3 years?

Edited by SenorSjon, 24 June 2022 - 14:06.

[Hutton]

I hate sprint races tbh, if you're going to have them at least make it reverse grids in championship order.

All we get is a short procession, just when it looks like things might be starting to spice up the race is over.

[Yoshi]

It did not find yet any official news except some first posts on twitter.

But it seems that we will have again three sprint races in 2023, the FIA rejected the approval to go with 6. 

[Risil]

I hate sprint races tbh, if you're going to have them at least make it reverse grids in championship order.

All we get is a short procession, just when it looks like things might be starting to spice up the race is over.

 

Maybe Pirelli could make a hyper-soft tyre compound that falls apart after 5 laps.

[Ferrim]

It did not find yet any official news except some first posts on twitter.

But it seems that we will have again three sprint races in 2023, the FIA rejected the approval to go with 6. 

 

Great. Better 3 than 6.

[absinthedude]

I hate sprint races tbh, if you're going to have them at least make it reverse grids in championship order.

All we get is a short procession, just when it looks like things might be starting to spice up the race is over.

 

Do this and completely divorce them from the grand prix.....make it so that they don't decide the starting grid and no points towards WCC or WDC are scored. I'd be OK with that. Or have a separate "sprint championship" where points are scored for placing in the top 6 or whatever of the sprint but again, do not count towards the WCC or WDC. 

[SenorSjon]

It did not find yet any official news except some first posts on twitter.

But it seems that we will have again three sprint races in 2023, the FIA rejected the approval to go with 6. 

 

It is even worded 'up to three'. So we could have zero as well.

 

One can hope

[Anderis]

Do this and completely divorce them from the grand prix.....make it so that they don't decide the starting grid and no points towards WCC or WDC are scored. I'd be OK with that. Or have a separate "sprint championship" where points are scored for placing in the top 6 or whatever of the sprint but again, do not count towards the WCC or WDC. 

Why would the teams care about sprints if they're have no impact on WCC or WDC? Especially now, when we have budget caps.

 

The "Sprint Championship" would need to be build into something significant, and:

1. this would not be easy

2. would this bother people who don't like sprints already any less?
 

[Yoshi]

It is even worded 'up to three'. So we could have zero as well.

 

One can hope

 

Sounds even better. 

[Hellenic tifosi]

The only way sprint races become interesting is if they are done on circuits with multiple configurations, or maybe if they state that tyres used during the sprint can't be used during the actual race, etc.

[absinthedude]

Why would the teams care about sprints if they're have no impact on WCC or WDC? Especially now, when we have budget caps.

 

The "Sprint Championship" would need to be build into something significant, and:

1. this would not be easy

2. would this bother people who don't like sprints already any less?
 

 

If the goal is to fool viewers into thinking that "more racing = better" then all the FIA/Liberty need to do is mandate that the F1 teams must take part and they don't have a choice, unless they want to leave F1 altogether.

 

Personally I'd scrap the wretched things but I could stomach them if they weren't part of the championship. I could stomach them if they set the grid, but no points were awarded. What we've got is just horrible. The qualifying system isn't part of what's wrong. 

[PayasYouRace]

Counter: If they weren’t used for qualifying or part of the championship is some way, what’s the point in having them? The system they’ve chosen actually provides some extra meaning to the weekend.

[Hellenic tifosi]

Counter: If they weren’t used for qualifying or part of the championship is some way, what’s the point in having them? The system they’ve chosen actually provides some extra meaning to the weekend.

That's true, but it would be even more interesting if more variables were involved.

[IrvTheSwerve]

The only way sprint races become interesting is if they are done on circuits with multiple configurations, or maybe if they state that tyres used during the sprint can't be used during the actual race, etc.

Indeed. E.g. Sprint race around Bahrain’s outer circuit and then Grand Prix around the GP circuit.

 

I still don’t like them but something like that would bring me around a bit.

[absinthedude]

I still think they take away from the weekend. Qualifying, which was not broken, is now a good deal less exciting. And awarding points on the day before the race is just something I don't think I can ever get on with in F1. We often talk about what is and isn't in the DNA of F1 and that is definitely not. 

[F1 Mike]

Unfortunately it seems like Liberty attitude is "just push on with it and eventually they'll get used to it"