482 replies to this topic

[jjcale]

I think it is consensus here (and among most fans, pundits etc) that Masi failed to follow important rules at a crucial stage of last year's drivers' championship - causing great embarrassment to the sport and arguably interfering with the outcome of the WDC (seeing it was a zero-sum, binary contest between LH and MV at that stage) .... Even most MV fans accept this, I think. 

 

Very likely, his name will go down in sporting infamy ... a byword for incompetence at the most crucial moment. 

 

But I am now at the stage where I actually feel sorry for the guy ...  I dont think he was corrupt (at least there is no strong evidence pointing to this) ... did he favour Redbull over Merc? probably -- you could hear it in just the tone of his voice when he spoke to Redbull team members compared to their opposite numbers at Merc.... but did he set out to intentionally break the rules to benefit MV/Redbull? I doubt it. ... So he just probably made a huge mistake at the most important moment of his professional life on the biggest stage imaginable. 

 

I dont see how he can continue in his role .... I cant even imagine why he would want to - given the magnitude of what he did.... he clearly needs a time out. He needs a lot of support and help - I hope he has family, friends and good people around him ... I am genuinely worried for his mental health and well being. 

 

His future now hangs in the balance - and I think he will probably be made the scapegoat for F1/Liberty going overboard with spicing up "the Show" last season.... if it is true that all the teams agreed that, if practicable, the AD race should not end under yellows,  that was just greedy seeing it was such a tense and gripping season - one which did not need any additional or artificial enhancement ... after all, the title decider in 2012 finished under yellows - and no one had a problem with that. ... so I think Masi is probably going to be thrown under the bus even whilst the FIA and Liberty refuse to accept that anything wrong was done... I can see them letting the press and fans trample all over his name to save theirs ... I expect that they will let him bear all the blame ... all by himself ... this guys life may well be ruined when this is all over. 

 

But what do you think?  

  

How do you think Masi should be dealt with? looking at the situation as fellow human beings  first and foremost... should he be allowed to give his side and explain what pressures he was under from above to deliver exciting races (and not just safety, as is his role)? ... should he be allowed to admit his error and apologise to LH. Merc and us the fans? ... and be allowed to start to heal, as a person.

 

Will he ever work in motorsport again? and should he?

 

Whatever he does or whatever is decided  I hope that there will be consideration for him as a human being ... what he did cannot be undone - so there is no point in seeing him destroyed now.... and that does not just go for those who are incensed by his failings in AD - but also for those who might be tempted to hang him out to dry and use him as a scapegoat.  

Edited by jjcale, 14 February 2022 - 19:20.

[HerbieMcQueen]

I think it is consensus here (and among most fans, pundits etc) that Masi failed to follow important rules at a crucial stage of last year's drivers championship - causing great embarrassment to the sport and arguably interfering with the outcome of the WDC (seeing it was a zero-sum, binary contest between LH and MV at that stage) .... Even most MV fans accept this, I think. 

 

Very likely, his name will go down in sporting infamy ... a byword for incompetence at the most crucial moment. 

 

But I am now at the stage where I actually feel sorry for the guy ...  I dont think he was corrupt (at least there is no strong evidence pointing to this) ... did he favour Redbull over Merc? probably -- you could hear it in just the tone of his voice when he spoke to Redbull team members compared to their opposite numbers at Merc.... but did he set out to intentionally break the rules to benefit MV/Redbull? I doubt it. ... So he just probably made a huge mistake at the most important moment of his professional life on the biggest stage imaginable. 

 

I dont see how he can continue in his role .... I cant even imagine why he would want to - given the magnitude of what he did.... he clearly needs a time out. He needs a lot of support and help - I hope he has family, friends and good people around him ... I am genuinely worried for his mental health and well being. 

 

His future now hangs in the balance - and he will probably be made the scapegoat for F1/Liberty going overboard with spicing up "the Show" last season.... if it is true that all the teams agreed that, if practicable, the AD race should not end under yellows,  that was just greedy seeing it was such a tense and gripping season and one which did not need additional or artificial enhancement ... after all, the title decider in 2012 finished under yellows - and no one had a problem with that. ... so Masi is probably going to be thrown under the bus even whilst the FIA and Liberty refuse to accept that anything wrong was done... they will let the press and fans trample all over his name to save theirs ... they will let him bear all the blame ... all by himself ... this guys life may well be ruined when this is all over. 

 

But what do you think?  

  

How do you think Masi should be dealt with? looking at the situation as fellow human beings  first and foremost... should he be allow to give his side and explain what pressures he was under from above to deliver exciting races (and not just safety, as is his role)? ... should he be allowed to admit his error and apologise to LH. Merc and us the fans? ... and be allow to start to heal, as a person.

 

Will he ever work in motorsport again? and should he?

 

Whatever he does or whatever is decided  I hope that there will be consideration for him as human being ... what he did cannot be undone - so there is no point in seeing him destroyed now.... and that does not just go for those who are incensed by his failings in AD - but also for those who might be tempted to hang him out to dry and use him as a scapegoat.  

 

This sentence makes me uncomfortable. I don't like this mob mentality prevalent these days. I understand you're just starting the discussion though.

 

Give him some friends to deal with the "day-to-day" of the race while more serious things are escalated to him (as it was meant to be), shut the team principals up with one nominated rep to talk to Masi's underlings (as it should be), and finally I'd love to have a beer with him.

 

Looking forward to the nutca...less than nuanced contributions to follow.

Edited by HerbieMcQueen, 14 February 2022 - 19:20.

[ensign14]

He was dangerous in Baku, mercenary in Belgium, and biased in Abu Dhabi.

[sabjit]

I was expecting the OP to be a somewhat farfetched defence of Michael Masi but it kinda sums up why his position is not tenable.

 

Even non-F1 people use Masi's name in situations when something weird happens in a game scenario that produces an unexpected (if not unjust) result.

[ARTGP]

I don't think the Masi character assassination should continue. He's only human. At the end of the day,  both Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen closed out 2021 earning 35+ million euros no matter the outcome of the championship and endeared themselves to millions more followers, while Masi is probably paid a pittance to do 3 people's jobs and hasn't nearly the support network socially or financially to deal with being persona non grata #1 in all of sport. Some perspective is needed. 

Edited by ARTGP, 14 February 2022 - 19:28.

[chdphd]

Nice enough guy, but I don't think he was intelligent enough for that role.

[Clrnc]

He wasn't good enough, but not because of what happened in Abu Dhabi. 

 

Overall I feel sympathy for him. It wasn't all his fault and he is a good man. 

[Broekschaap]

This is not going to be a support thread is it?

[ColeTrickle44]

Like anyone else who fails to do their job.. demote him to a series more suited to his skills. Never take a job beyond your capabilities.

[w00dy]

RD is not a one man job, that is clear, hope he has the option to move sideways.

The FIA should have done more to protect its employee against the abuse he has received both after AD from fans and before-during the race from TPs.

[Muppetmad]

I doubt any of us can speak of him as an individual, so we can only speak on his performance in his role as race director. It's a challenging role, and he has proven over time to not be fit for it; I think it would be in his best interests for somebody else to take his place. I certainly bear no animosity towards him, although I find it unnerving to have somebody whose judgement I fundamentally distrust performing a role where lives can be on the line.

[FullOppositeLock]

He should step down or get the sack for a season riddled with mistakes and inconsistency literally from race one to race 22, and many in between. So naturally he will stay, they will make his job easier to handle and his role will be renamed. This is the FIA way.

[flyboym3]

He'd be sacked in the 'private sector'.

Not good enough, has no presence and does not command respect.

[OvDrone]

I don't want to put all the blame on one person. That's shifting liability and the rot goes deeper than him or his position - it's within the FIA as an institution and F1's own identity that's split between sport and show.

I do however desire authentic accountability that the management clearly lacks. The fact that nobody stepped up and taken responsibility is just a reflection of a societal lack of leadership that has become endemic in our current life.

Whether it's politics, institutions, sports even our more intimate personal relationships, there's a damning void of any proactive responses or engagement in healthy conflict. It's just profit, reactions, greed and sheer incompetence which sometimes devolves into blatant corruption.

What I can do is take things into my own hands, that's the only thing I can change. My own response.

I won't watch F1 Netflix series. I won't pay for anything related to F1. No tv deal or streaming or merch or anything. No social media engagement. I'll watch some races here and there through online pirated streams. That way I feel fine with the energy and attention I invest. 
I'll let other people get absorbed by this, whatever it is.

Honestly whether it's the FIA with F1, them essentially killing WRC and WRX behind gross fossilized paywalls, the DTM being a hack, Nascar being no better than F1 ( even worse ), FIM / Dorna not doing anything about the mortality rate and riding standards in lower formula and not having boundaries with bs riding but going full tyrant with milimetre enforcements of track limits, AMA never penalizing blatant violent riders in Supercross, Formula E sucking at penalties and it goes on and on and on and on. You get my point.

I'm outgrowing my past relationship with Motorsport as a whole, like I am with many things in my life. So for now, I'm gonna be more involved in Sportscars, Indycar, GTs and maybe some touring as it's kinda the only thing that feels more raw and authentic and manageable, where I don't feel swindled.

I feel fully taken for granted by F1 and the FIA. The fact that it's two months past Abu Dhabi and literally nothing has been done... well, there's my answer. A s**ty relationship where the other is taking me for a sucker and taking no mature responsibility in anything.

Bet you Masi will stay on. It's going to be a matter of time when it's gonna be Max or another that'll be cheated next, or worse - injured. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Consistency is the most important one for me. Stewarding and directing inconsistencies swung in favor of both Mercedes and RedBull on several occasions so it is the whole body of the system that needs to be reviewed not just poor Michael Masi. Outside of RedBull and Mercedes bubble, even Fernando Alonso had questioned the inconsistency of decisions on several occasions throughout 2021 season.

[P123]

Whoever is in the job will get criticised.  You can empathise with it being a tricky job to do, and the additional noise from the pitwall prats being an unwelcome distraction.  But, is he the best available for the job?  Removing him and presenting that as positive change would of course be total nonsense.  He could do with some assistance.

[PlatenGlass]

RD is not a one man job, that is clear, hope he has the option to move sideways.

The FIA should have done more to protect its employee against the abuse he has received both after AD from fans and before-during the race from TPs.

I think this sums it up. Some terrible decisions were made but just sacking one guy and replacing him with someone else is unlikely to get to the root of the problem. A lot of changes need to be made and it's not just about having different people in the same jobs.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Nothing personal, but I just don’t think he’s strong enough for this role. Like any other person in any other job in which they underperform.

The team to FIA feed need cutting though, for whosever in that role. Like lamb to the slaughter.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 14 February 2022 - 20:09.

[OvDrone]

I honestly think this hollow pity for anyone in that position is bs. 

Someone with a reasonable awareness and competence in leadership would be more than willing to step into this role. There are endless examples around us each day of people from all walks of life being more than capable of doing something like this. To steer the ship with clear cut boundaries and a healthy relationship to pressure. 

The ship is without a captain. It's lost at sea.

Own it. 

[flyboym3]

Whoever is in the job will get criticised.

Is that really true?
I don't ever recall F1 race directors getting this high frequency of continual criticisms.

We need to move away from the idea that they would all be bad. The likes of Whiting or pierluigi collina is proof they are not all equal.

[ARTGP]

Is that really true?
I don't ever recall F1 race directors getting this high frequency of continual criticisms.

We need to move away from the idea that they would all be bad. The likes of Whiting or pierluigi collina is proof they are not all equal.

 

We have been complaining about track limits, rules of wheel to wheel racing, and consistency under Whiting for years. 

Edited by ARTGP, 14 February 2022 - 20:19.

[MKSixer]

We have been complaining about track limits, rules of wheel to wheel racing, and consistency under Whiting for years. 

In retrospect, Whiting was a genius compared to Masi.  An absolute genius.

[FullOppositeLock]

In retrospect, Whiting was a genius compared to Masi. An absolute genius.

He really wasn’t.

[flyboym3]

We have been complaining about track limits, rules of wheel to wheel racing, and consistency under Whiting for years.

I guess that's one opinion I can't relate to.
Are you sure you're not getting confused with issue of consistent stewarding which is a completely different role and a separate issue.

[FirstnameLastname]

It’s called motor racing.

[Claymore25]

He should have been fired after Spa.

[Rumblestrip]

In retrospect, Whiting was a genius compared to Masi.  An absolute genius.

 

In retrospect I think we just didn't see how the sausage was made.

[MKSixer]

He really wasn’t.

One may add up Whiting's 10 most questionable rulings, multiply them by 5 and you won't even be halfway to the negative impact of Masi-Gate.

[Viryfan]

One may add up Whiting's 10 most questionable rulings, multiply them by 5 and you won't even be halfway to the negative impact of Masi-Gate.

Bianchi's family might beg to differ on that one.

[RPM40]

At the end of the day he created probably the biggest farce the sport has ever, and possibly will ever see, but as a person he seems perfectly nice and decent.

 

I do feel sorry for him, the politicking of Red Bull and Merc on the radio arguably lead him to that. But he did know what he was signing up for when he took that job. 

Edited by RPM40, 14 February 2022 - 21:17.

[KeithD68]

He made a new rule up on the spot to benefit one team over another

 

As best he's an incompetent fool, at worst he's bent

 

Don't feel sorry for him at all, should have been fired in Abu Dhabi after the race

Edited by KeithD68, 14 February 2022 - 21:23.

[MasterOfCoin]

We have been complaining about track limits, rules of wheel to wheel racing, and consistency under Whiting for years. 

True....although i don't believe Whiting ever thru the rule book out, and orchestrated one of the worst shams in F1 history...

[Requiem84]

Whiting, the man who once cleared Hamilton in Spa Fter which he got a 25s penalty.

…

Whiting was heavily criticized. Masi was heavily criticized. Masi’s successor will be heavily criticized.

[Cliff]

Don’t sack him, make rules crystal clear and get at least 2 other people to divide his tasks. That automatically eliminates rogue decision making.

[MKSixer]

Bianchi's family might beg to differ on that one.

The loss of life during a sporting event is horrible.  Whiting was using the tools at his disposal to get the track clear.  The tools evolved after this event because of the scope of the result.  

 

Masi had the tools to end the race correctly and made a decision to not apply them.  

 

In no way am I comparing a race result to the loss of human life.  They aren't even in the same universe.  

[JHSingo]

I realise I'll be in the minority with this opinion, but I'm going to say it: I actually support what Masi did in Abu Dhabi.

 

It gave us an exciting finish that we'd have been robbed of otherwise - either through backmarkers getting in the way and preventing Verstappen from having a chance, or with the race finishing behind safety car. I, personally, would have found both of those unsatisfactory outcomes. 

 

As I said a while ago: I'd rather have a Race Director have the freedom to do what Masi did, rather than always have to rigidly stick to the letter of the rulebook, in a situation that warrants it like that. Maybe it just needs to be clearer that the RD has discretion to make such decisions in active, fluid situations in future. 

 

He did what he thought was best - rightly or wrongly - for the spectacle, to give us fans a proper show. And I think that's admirable. Too often, in the Charlie Whiting era, he'd play it ridiculously safe (how many times were races behind the SC for ages in the wet, even when it wasn't that dangerous?) often to the detriment of the spectacle.

 

He doesn't get everything right - and changes do need to be made. The rulebook is needlessly complex and bloated, team bosses categorically shouldn't be trying to influence his decision during a race (so remove that communication!), and maybe more should be done to delegate the work load to more people so he's not always under as much pressure with certain things. 

 

But I do think, by and large, he does a good job. I don't think he should be fired. Or even hung, drawn and quartered, as some LH fans would probably like...

 

People forget that he's only a human being at the end of the day, and some of the vitriol aimed towards him has been really unpleasant to see. It's just bloody sport at the end of the day, and nobody died. For the love of god, get over it and move on. 

Edited by JHSingo, 14 February 2022 - 21:45.

[mclarensmps]

Check twitter. Max fans have been celebrating the offseason with memes, songs and good nature. Hamilton fans have been relentlessly abusive. 

 

Claiming that only Hamilton fans are upset by this, and that Max fans are happy and celebrating, makes no sense because Max didn't come out worse from this decision.

Why don't you take a look at how a lot of Max fans behaved when he didn't have a favorable outcome of any situation?



Anyhow, back on topic, I totally agree with OP. I don't think Masi is corrupt or even biased. The problem here is that he crumbled under pressure, both internal and external, and made a series of bad decisions that ended up removing the fairness element of the race. Had there been a situation where two teams were closely fighting for 3rd and 4th spot in the championship (resulting in a decent amount of financial compensation), and this had affected them, they would have been making a fuss about it too. A race isn't just to be competed for the race win, and everyone should race by the same rulebook. 

[Muzzyf1]

Stop bullying the bloke as if any of you are perfect he was thrown in the deep end and has done a fantastic job considering.
I support him 100 percent he just needs more resources/help to do his job .

[Nemo1965]

I don't think that JJ means its as such but... this support thread is actually the way a lot of tabloids eek out the humiliation that perhaps even is not deserved. Like:

 

a. We all agree that what X did is a horrible, horrible thing (when it is not clear what X did or indeed if we 'all agree' what he did was horrible).

b. But he is only human and does not deserve to be ostracised for the rest of his leave (when it is not clear if he is, by whom, if that is done by communis opinio or that he will be). 

 

It is like digging a hole for someone and at the same time saying how you sorry you are you digging the hole. 

[TheFish]

I would like to hear from him. Maybe the report will give a bit of his side of the story.

I have to say I feel very little sympathy for him at this point. He messed up and so far he’s just gone quiet. There’s been no remorse or apology. If he had any shame he’d have resigned by now.

Maybe we’ll find something out in the future that makes me more sympathetic.

[Risil]

I don't think I have any new thoughts about Masi to be honest. He ignored the rulebook in an arbitrary way that obviously favoured one competitor, which is much worse than a simple mistake or error of judgement. But, the pressure on him was considerable and I suspect from more angles than just the team communications that were played over the broadcast.

 

And then some of F1's rules, like the ones around fair racing and leaving space, are simply unworkable and put the race director in an impossible position.

 

I think F1 could do with a new race director but if they simply replace Masi and don't change anything else, I'm sure the new guy will end up in the same place sooner or later.

 

Don't really think he should apologize to anyone except Lewis Hamilton. Perhaps he already has.

[ColeTrickle44]

Check twitter. Max fans have been celebrating the offseason with memes, songs and good nature. Hamilton fans have been relentlessly abusive.

You don’t think is maybe becuase you are only following a subset of accounts

[ARTGP]

I don't think I have any new thoughts about Masi to be honest. He ignored the rulebook in an arbitrary way that obviously favoured one competitor, which is much worse than a simple mistake or error of judgement. But, the pressure on him was considerable and I suspect from more angles than just the team communications that were played over the broadcast.

 

And then some of F1's rules, like the ones around fair racing and leaving space, are simply unworkable and put the race director in an impossible position.

 

I think F1 could do with a new race director but if they simply replace Masi and don't change anything else, I'm sure the new guy will end up in the same place sooner or later.

 

Don't really think he should apologize to anyone except Lewis Hamilton. Perhaps he already has.

 

Interestingly, I feel like Whiting would absolutely not have made the same decisions that Masi did in AD. But that position compromised Whiting in other ways, as you say. If they just replace Masi with a new guy, the new guy will end up backing himself into a ****storm just like his predecessors.  It does seem like Masi had too many people with different motives talking in his ear (literally and figuratively) and that's what set him up for failure. 

Edited by ARTGP, 14 February 2022 - 22:36.

[P123]

This is less about Masi and more about one drivers personal mob that is increasingly becoming abusive and threatening. FIA must take action to protect staff. 
 
The sooner they leave the better frankly.

 
 

SACK MASI

Make your mind up.

[TheFish]

Make your mind up.

Those posts are more than 2 months apart.

[P123]

Interestingly, I feel like Whiting would absolutely not have made the same decisions that Masi did in AD. But that position compromised Whiting in other ways, as you say. If they just replace Masi with a new guy, the new guy will end up backing himself into a ****storm just like his predecessors.

It's the ref. There will always be contentious decisions and ensuing criticism. What F1 needs to avoid is the apparent random 'make it up as they go along' sort of stuff that has increasingly crept in. Whether that be track limits, the Spa non-race, dithering over SCs (Baku) or saying a big "**** it" to the SC procedures. There is probably more recent examples that I haven't remembered. And although it seems to be happening with increased regularity, it's not a new phenomenon, and used to be the Bernie & Max Show's favoured way of exerting influence and manipulating championships.

[P123]

Those posts are more than 2 months apart.

I know.

[Heyli]

Worst support thread ever?

[Fastcake]

He should have been fired after Spa.

 

It has been conveniently forgotten with the fiasco of that day that Masi did not even know the basic rules of who was allowed back on the grid. There was an hour of back and forth over whether Perez would be allowed back on the grid, and as much as Masi had the understandable defence of presuming Red Bull were wrong and just whinging as usual, it does seem something he should have known. It took the stewards of the meeting to actually read the rulebook and tell him that no, Perez can be popped onto the back of the grid.

 

That should have been an early warning sign that he could not maintain his grip on the rules under pressure.

 

In retrospect, Whiting was a genius compared to Masi.  An absolute genius.

Whiting was criticised outside of the sport continually, but from inside the paddock he was widely respected in his role. Masi is not, certainly not anymore.

[P123]

Whiting, the man who once cleared Hamilton in Spa Fter which he got a 25s penalty.

…

Whiting was heavily criticized. Masi was heavily criticized. Masi’s successor will be heavily criticized.

 

That wasn't down to Whiting, but it's true Whiting used to get slated too.   Whoever is in that role will always come in for criticism.  To minimise that the FIA need to have a little think as to how their rules are written.  How things are judged at present seems more flexible than a 2010 Red Bull front wing.