3955 replies to this topic

[Laster]

Those Alpha Tauri’s are having a miserable weekend. Car is just not working here.

[Beri]

That first corner incident of Leclerc and Verstappen show what's wrong with the current way of penalizing drivers. It was a deliberate action by Verstappen, he knew it would become a 5 second penalty and he accepted it as soon as he stepped on that brake pedal.
Drivers are taking the possible outcome of a penalty already into consideration. And this should stop. The time penalties should be abandoned and all time penalties should be converted to either a drive through or a stop and go penalty. That way, drivers will not take such actions into consideration anymore.
At least, if you keep the time penalty as FIA, then there should be a designated area in the pitlane where the penalty is served. Not at your own spot in the pitlane.

[Stephane]

I think he just misjudged the grip, and he was not alone if we look at the mess behind.

Honest mistake, and penalty deserved.

Edited by Stephane, 19 November 2023 - 09:38.

[Dalton007]

Great race. Las Vegas delivered. 

[PayasYouRace]

He still didn’t give up the place gained off track, so misjudging the grip or not, there was still foul play and he decided the penalty was worth it.

 

Lucikly this morning the race was close enough that the 5 seconds actually did affect him, but I think a harsher penalty for that kind of thing would be better.

[Ruudbackus]

Both he and Leclerc stated that the grip was the issue in t1 and Collins in his analyse on f1tv pointed that out as well. So i don't think it was deliberate. Yet he decided the possible 5 second penalty was worth it to stay ahead. And we've seen that before unfortunately (Particularry Russell just admitted to it in Texas IIRC) . 

 

 

Leclerc quote about it:

 

"At the start, it was very tricky because I think Max on the inside lost a little bit of grip and brought me on the outside. But then we had the pace, we passed him back and we were really strong overall.

 

Verstappens Quote (translated from dutch):

 

I didn't want to push him outside of the track, but i didn't manage to reduce speed, Thats why we went wide. I was on the dirt and had no grip".  He also acknowledged the penalty was just 

Edited by Ruudbackus, 19 November 2023 - 09:38.

[Primo]

I don't. But I don't really care. It's petulance.

You do not know, but still you are willing to make a harsh verdict. That's petulance.

[Heyli]

He still didn’t give up the place gained off track, so misjudging the grip or not, there was still foul play and he decided the penalty was worth it.

 

Lucikly this morning the race was close enough that the 5 seconds actually did affect him, but I think a harsher penalty for that kind of thing would be better.

Yep, I agree. It really always should be a position penalty. And if you dont give up the position, then just hand it out after the race. 

[Primo]

Yep, I agree. It really always should be a position penalty. And if you dont give up the position, then just hand it out after the race. 

In this case though, I think that the penalty worked. Max, the tire whisperer, tried to eek out a 5s gap and burned his tires. Without the safety cars, Leclerc would most likely have won the race.

[SophieB]

A fun Twitter thread of people in Las Vegas employing ingenuity to see the racing action.

 

https://x.com/brettf...2584985714?s=61

 

Last one is the best.

[ANF]

A fun Twitter thread of people in Las Vegas employing ingenuity to see the racing action.
 
https://x.com/brettf...2584985714?s=61
 
Last one is the best.

Threads don't seem to work on "X" anymore unless you log in. Only one tweet X will load. Well done, Elon Musk!

[SophieB]

Threads don't seem to work on "X" anymore unless you log in. Only one tweet X will load. Well done, Elon Musk!

Well, that’s just great, isn’t it. This one was my favourite, then:

 

https://x.com/brettf...0406497559?s=61

[ANF]

Well, that’s just great, isn’t it. This one was my favourite, then:
 
https://x.com/brettf...0406497559?s=61

Thank you!

[Jellyfishcake]

Well, that’s just great, isn’t it. This one was my favourite, then:

 

https://x.com/brettf...0406497559?s=61

 

That's hilarious.

Also, you stick F1 in the city, and then have to spend time and money trying to 'hide' it from those who haven't paid crazy amounts 

[paulb]

Well I survived a week of F1 that was beyond incredible. Give a little time to recover (2:30am home this time) and compile a story.

Item of interest I heard is that one of the casinos (don’t recall the name) took in 300k in tips on Friday alone.

[SophieB]

Apologies if already posted, but if you missed Perez being introduced to the crowd, please watch, it’s glorious.

 

https://x.com/lukesm...6172318776?s=61

[Ruudbackus]

The awkwardness of Perez. I wouldn't know what to do either is someone was screaming into my face like that 

[SteveHam]

Apologies if already posted, but if you missed Perez being introduced to the crowd, please watch, it’s glorious.

https://x.com/lukesm...6172318776?s=61

Like David Brent out the office looking at the camera

[SophieB]

A fun Twitter thread of people in Las Vegas employing ingenuity to see the racing action.

 

https://x.com/brettf...2584985714?s=61

 

Last one is the best.

 

Autosport have a story on fans watching the race for free.

 

 

 

 

During the Vegas race, as can be seen in the photos above and below, some fans – some clad in team wear merchandise but thought to be without tickets – successfully tore through this to gain a view of the track on the Strip beyond.

Event staff attempted to replace the screens after they were damaged but were unsuccessful.

 

 

https://www.autospor...as-gp/10549034/

[jonpollak]

Well I survived a week of F1 that was beyond incredible. Give a little time to recover (2:30am home this time) and compile a story.

Item of interest I heard is that one of the casinos (don’t recall the name) took in 300k in tips on Friday alone.

Thanks for all the great ‘man on the scene’ reports.
Excited to hear the full story.

Jp

[jonpollak]

Just read the race thread…

Some things never change.
Jp

[loki]

Well I survived a week of F1 that was beyond incredible. Give a little time to recover (2:30am home this time) and compile a story.

Item of interest I heard is that one of the casinos (don’t recall the name) took in 300k in tips on Friday alone.

 

It sounds good until the math is done over the course of three shifts that’s about $75 a person.  Depending on the place and server/dealer it can be a couple to several hundred a night.  I haven’t heard how tipping went yet but dining and some retail did less than not only expected but less than normal.  On a $300 toke that’s about 300 workers a shift.  At a big resort there are several hundred to a thousand gratuity based employees at any given time.

[loki]

Couldn’t get a shot but two flatbeds with Ferrari and Red Bull cargo pallets turning into the airport.  There were a few police motorcycles swarming them and I thought they were getting pulled over.  Police escort.  Must be nice. Theodore said they had to drive the cargo to LAX but it came in on two Atlas freighters at the top of the week.  They were parked next to Janet Air for a day or so.  Just prior there was a truckload of rodeo fence going to Thomas and Mack.  Only in Vegas can one prestigious gig be here while they load out F1…

[MKSixer]

Apologies if already posted, but if you missed Perez being introduced to the crowd, please watch, it’s glorious.

 

https://x.com/lukesm...6172318776?s=61

This is FULL of win!  Perez and Buffer kind of look like the agents in The Matrix Trilogy after The Burly Brawl when the agents are just standing around after Neo flies off.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=bb8KZps4woA

 

Forward to 5:40...

Edited by MKSixer, 20 November 2023 - 00:28.

[loki]

The first batch of overly enthusiastic “stats” from LVGP about the event.

 

They say 315k and over a billion in impact.  BS.  Around 100k each day to the event.  There may have been 120-130k in town at any given time.  Maybe.

 

https://www.ktnv.com...economic-impact

 

Around town I’m hearing it was dead.  Dead, dead.  Unless you were in one of the handful of upscale sponsor hotels.  They did well and will post record single day revenues.  Mid and down market were crushed.  We would have had as many people in town, maybe more but not spending near the amount of money.  Likely to register the best Nov revenue on record.

 

Dining demand outside of the resorts underwhelming.  The shows that did decide to run lost a buttload.  Don’t expect any shows to run should the GP return. Return for at least another year is likely with some change.  The remote parking/commute is said to have worked well.  Or about as well as could be expected.  An hour or two was added to the modified commute but I’ve heard of nothing catastrophic happening.

[loki]

More, this time from resort spokespersons and visitation promoters. 

 

https://www.reviewjo...vent in history

 

Looks like they’re going to introduce a 20k person fan zone that was talked about for this year.  Oh, and they want to charge for it.  That’s the plan for local outreach.  The one at Silver Sevens flopped in a big way.  What they need to do is make cheap three day GA, say $300, no hospitality.  If you want food have concessions, or better yet food trucks, to sell $20 burgers and $15 beers.  GA on traditional pull splinters out of your ass grandstand benches.  The grandstand seats this year were nice sports arena type seats.  Cheap tix don’t need that.  Save it for the big bucks.  Put them along Koval where some of the under attended hospitality was.  Room prices will need to normalize before any hanger on or low price point GA visitors will come in greater numbers.

[YamahaV10]

Just watching the race now. Leclerc could have blocked Max at tgr start but was caught off. It's the same thing Norris did twice. Then Leclerc gets caught napping at the restart. We've had lots of boring starts thanks to drivers not challenging Max

[loki]

Jenna talks to Rene Wilm post race.

 

https://apnews.com/a...5ee50296a65ac50

 

tl;DR

 

More tone deaf Rene Wilm.  That position needs to be PR/customer service not legal.

 

Pricing for 2024 not set.  Deposits only let you buy at whatever rate they set.  Non refundable. Won’t commit to changing pricing structure but could add more GA.

 

Played the small startup card to deflect poor planning and communication. For a company with a market cap of $26 bil and revenues of $2 bil/year.

 

Expects to be applauded for paying their fair share of taxes.

 

Start times for FP and quali could change, race likely to stay.  Thinks fights start at 10 pm (Ted said that too) so is basing race time from that.  Thing is the fights are usually well done by 10.  It’s pay per view geared to how late it is on the east coast.  That’s the irony.  The example she gives does the same thing she’s being asked to do for the US market.  

[MikeTekRacing]

The first batch of overly enthusiastic “stats” from LVGP about the event.

They say 315k and over a billion in impact. BS. Around 100k each day to the event. There may have been 120-130k in town at any given time. Maybe.

https://www.ktnv.com...economic-impact

Around town I’m hearing it was dead. Dead, dead. Unless you were in one of the handful of upscale sponsor hotels. They did well and will post record single day revenues. Mid and down market were crushed. We would have had as many people in town, maybe more but not spending near the amount of money. Likely to register the best Nov revenue on record.

Dining demand outside of the resorts underwhelming. The shows that did decide to run lost a buttload. Don’t expect any shows to run should the GP return. Return for at least another year is likely with some change. The remote parking/commute is said to have worked well. Or about as well as could be expected. An hour or two was added to the modified commute but I’ve heard of nothing catastrophic happening.

Anything concrete that you call BS on those stats?

[loki]

Anything concrete that you call BS on those stats?

The 315k was over four days but in fairness I’d count it as three as the opening was limited by choice of the promoter.  They were there for the race as well.  It tracks with primary sales.  Looks like primary and at least most secondary sold out for Thurs/Fri.  Sat didn’t sellout primary and there were quite a few secondary.   Resale didn’t take off like Thurs and Fri did.  It was 2-3x more expensive and that was probably what killed it. They stalled and never recovered.  It was in a few percentage points of sellout.  Most of us thought the grandstands would sell out.  It was a surprise they didn’t even after room prices returned to earth.  

 

The billion dollar impact is horse hockey.  If you count the $500 mil for the building and track it could get close. But they are implying a direct revenue injection when it’s passthrough calculation that relies on indirect and induced revenue.  That $2200 room at Bellagio (and there were a ton of them rented) still has the same costs to maintain.  The GRA still gets the same to clean it as if it were the rack rate.  They still buy the same amount of cleaning supplies and send the same amount of linen to the laundry.  The windfall goes to stock buybacks and dividends which don’t get passed along locally.  And Liberty keeps a good hunk of the money generated.

 

At one point they said “hundreds of millions” of dollars were generated in ticket tax income.  LET is 9%.  For a single hundred million dollar ticket tax haul they would have needed to sell a billion in tickets.  Didn’t happen though they made a ton of money.

 

The event was successful and well received by the guests.  It generated a ton of money.  For a few companies.  While big figures are bandied about for most people nothing is different.  

[loki]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode.  (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas.  At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

 

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

[DW46]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode. (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas. At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=TReCZ2auRkE

[Ruudbackus]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode.  (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas.  At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

 

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

After the first sentence i already lost it. Yes it was a good race but to call it an success doesn;t do justice and the issues that were there (mostly on the first day). The race itself was helped by oil put down the straight, a lack of grip and safety cars. I was sceptic beforehand to tell the truth but I do like to see 1 or 2 more grand prix in Vegas before I call it a success or a miss.

[Ali623]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode.  (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas.  At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

 

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

 

Monaco was actually good this year, one of the better race weekends of this season.

[Sterzo]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode.  (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas.  At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

 

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

And you're a very naughty boy for posting it.

[jonpollak]

No he isn’t.

This is a thread for post race stupidity as well ya know.
And if Loki brings it … it’s the content we are after.


Oh and I’d like our original thread title back please.
LOST WAGES GP 2023 ( Pre-Post and Onwards )

Thanks very much,
Jp

[jonpollak]

Cheeky Motor Sport article on the event.

F1 perfects the art of ripping off its own fans – Up/down in Vegas

 

Jp

[milestone 11]

This hot take is going to make some heads explode. (hypen) race thinks F1 no longer needs Monaco now that it has Vegas. At first glance I thought Cleese, Palin, Idle and Gilliam had reunited.

https://www.the-race...r-needs-monaco/

Cheeky Motor Sport article on the event.

F1 perfects the art of ripping off its own fans – Up/down in Vegas

Jp

Such diametrically opposed articles, I know which I'm likely to heed.

Edited by milestone 11, 20 November 2023 - 14:11.

[milestone 11]

Just watching Practice 2. I hadn't realised how affected Martin was from the fragrant cigarettes around him.

[Primo]

Just watching Practice 2. I hadn't realised how affected Martin was from the fragrant cigarettes around him.

Martin?

[Ivanhoe]

Martin?

Brundle.

[Primo]

Brundle.

 

Aha.

[YamahaV10]

Doesn't look like they learned their lesson on pricing.  Non refundable deposits being accepted for 2024.  I’d hold off on putting down a deposit at this point.

 

https://www.f1lasveg...m/2024-deposits

 

Now that the race delivered and ppl think it will be cheaper, next year will be packed. 

[Iannone]

Race was great. With how much division the media likes to portray, it was wonderful to come together with thousands of people and share our love for Formula 1. I was wrong about the race and I know it affected the locals but I live in a bigger city than Las Vegas and when there are major events it completely derails my day to day but I don’t begrudge those excited to be a part of whatever that is. I work around it. 
 

Red Bull are really riding all their luck this year to have both Ferraris compromised all weekend in one way or another. It will turn around. My friend and I were talking and wondered if Max is actually mature or he just doesn’t have his back against the wall and ir seems that way. After this race….lol same old whiny Max. 

[Risil]

Oh and I’d like our original thread title back please.
LOST WAGES GP 2023 ( Pre-Post and Onwards )

Done!

[loki]

Now that the race delivered and ppl think it will be cheaper, next year will be packed. 

It was packed this year.  You just couldn’t see it on TV.  My guess is tickets will not be less expensive but there will be more of the $500 GA tickets.   The mid and low end properties were dead zones.  The event ran everything out of town and in terms of scale it’s not very big for an event in town.  As long as the premium pricing holds that’s not going to be an issue for the large corporations.  What could become an issue is when the smaller independent properties keep losing money over the event and the disruption of local businesses during the setup.  We may not have seen the last lawsuit over the event.  My guess would be the next targets are the county and LVCVA.

[loki]

Cheeky Motor Sport article on the event.

F1 perfects the art of ripping off its own fans – Up/down in Vegas

 

Jp

Best line in that piece was “Iberian axis”…

[loki]

No he isn’t.

This is a thread for post race stupidity as well ya know.
And if Loki brings it … it’s the content we are after.


Oh and I’d like our original thread title back please.
LOST WAGES GP 2023 ( Pre-Post and Onwards )

Thanks very much,
Jp

 

Thx but he threw out a Life of Brian reference.

 

[jonpollak]

Done!

Y’all are AWESOME !!!
ta.
Jp

[jonpollak]

Just watching Practice 2. I hadn't realised how affected Martin was from the fragrant cigarettes around him.

This was the absolute best part of the entire weekend’s broadcast. paulb’s station as well

Here Miley … Have another drag off that “Fragrant Cigarette”
 

Jp

Edited by jonpollak, 20 November 2023 - 23:22.