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Qualifying Averages Between Teammates - 2022 Edition


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#1 tyker

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 12:34

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3, a driver may well out qualify his teammate but end up having achieved a slower lap so his teammate gets the benefit towards the average lap.

 

Laps are only used where drivers competed in the same qualifying sessions and only dry laps are used because wet laps are run in inconsistent conditions were much larger gaps in teammates are often seen and often an element of luck might be present as well.

 

It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc, also a driver may simply not have set a competitive lap after running off the track or it could be a combination of all 3 things. Another thing I have to be sure of is that drivers are driving to their maximum ability and not just coasting through the qualifying sessions like we tend to see with the top teams until they reach Q3.

 

2022 (After 3 races)

 

1. Albon 0.63s

2. Bottas 0.62s

3. Gasly 0.43s

4. Norris 0.39s

5. Magnussen 0.26s

6. Leclerc 0.15s

7. Alonso 0.13s

8. Russell 0.11s

9. Verstappen 0.02s

 



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#2 micktosin

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 13:28

I am pretty sure lewis is still ahead based on average lap times.

#3 Stumpy29

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 13:36

Damn after being smoked last year on quali, Checo has found new 1-lap mojo to be so close to Max.

#4 tyker

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 19:09

I am pretty sure lewis is still ahead based on average lap times.

He lost out by over 6 tenths in Jeddah.



#5 Astandahl

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 20:20

 

Once again I bring forward my qualifying averages for those of you that are interested in this kind of thing, my methodology is too use the fastest lap a driver achieves whether that be in Q1, Q2 or Q3, a driver may well out qualify his teammate but end up having achieved a slower lap so his teammate gets the benefit towards the average lap.

 

Laps are only used where drivers competed in the same qualifying sessions and only dry laps are used because wet laps are run in inconsistent conditions were much larger gaps in teammates are often seen and often an element of luck might be present as well.

 

It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc, also a driver may simply not have set a competitive lap after running off the track or it could be a combination of all 3 things. Another thing I have to be sure of is that drivers are driving to their maximum ability and not just coasting through the qualifying sessions like we tend to see with the top teams until they reach Q3.

 

2022 (After 3 races)

 

1. Albon 0.63s

2. Bottas 0.62s

3. Gasly 0.43s

4. Norris 0.39s

5. Magnussen 0.26s

6. Leclerc 0.15s

7. Alonso 0.13s

8. Russell 0.11s

9. Verstappen 0.02s

 

Did you use Lec / Sai Q2 laps for Melbourne, right?


Edited by Astandahl, 09 April 2022 - 20:21.


#6 tyker

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 21:46

Did you use Lec / Sai Q2 laps for Melbourne, right?

No I didn't, Sainz went quicker in Q2, Leclerc improved this time twice in Q3 but Sainz was unable to set a competitive time in Q3 due to reasons outside his control.



#7 Deeq

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 22:03

No I didn't, Sainz went quicker in Q2, Leclerc improved this time twice in Q3 but Sainz was unable to set a competitive time in Q3 due to reasons outside his control.

.. Should not matter, you are using their best lap(s), So Leclerc his pole lap and Sainz his Q2 lap right?

#8 tyker

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Posted 09 April 2022 - 22:22

.. Should not matter, you are using their best lap(s), So Leclerc his pole lap and Sainz his Q2 lap right?

From my opening post, "It has to be seen that a driver has had a fair chance to set a competitive lap, free of mechanical issues, yellow flags etc."

 

Leclerc improved by 7 tenths from Q2 to Q3, I think it's unfair to consider that Sainz would not also have improved his lap time given fair chance.



#9 tyker

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Posted 08 May 2022 - 11:46

After Miami (Miami Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.51s (0.175s)

02. Norris 0.46s (0.676s)

03. Albon 0.44s (0.059s)

04. Gasly 0.36s (0.242s)

05. Stroll 0.22s

06. Leclerc 0.16s (0.19s)

07. Alonso 0.13s (-)

08. Magnussen 0.11s (-0.33s)

09. Verstappen 0.03s (0.045s)

10. Hamilton 0.01s (0.376s)



#10 Sterzo

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Posted 08 May 2022 - 11:55

Thank you tyker. Of all the statistics in all the world that interest and entertain us, this is one of the most fascinating and significant.



#11 tyker

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Posted 08 May 2022 - 12:18

Thank you tyker. Of all the statistics in all the world that interest and entertain us, this is one of the most fascinating and significant.

I appreciate that.  :up:



#12 YamahaV10

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Posted 08 May 2022 - 14:55

After Miami (Miami Difference)

01. Bottas 0.51s (0.175s)
02. Norris 0.46s (0.676s)
03. Albon 0.44s (0.059s)
04. Gasly 0.36s (0.242s)
05. Stroll 0.22s
06. Leclerc 0.16s (0.19s)
07. Alonso 0.13s (-)
08. Magnussen 0.11s (-0.33s)
09. Verstappen 0.03s (0.045s)
10. Hamilton 0.01s (0.376s)

Stroll is leading Vettel now to date ?

Magnussen really struggles at certain tracks.

Edited by YamahaV10, 08 May 2022 - 14:56.


#13 tyker

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Posted 09 May 2022 - 16:25

Stroll is leading Vettel now to date ?

Magnussen really struggles at certain tracks.

Stroll/Vettel is just a sample of one, that can quickly change.



#14 William Hunt

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Posted 09 May 2022 - 19:40

Magnussen really struggles at certain tracks.

 

Magnussen didn't advance to Q2 because he kept on driving on old tyres in Q1 instead of entering the pits for a fresh set (his radio didn't work during qualy). He might have qualified in the top 10 had he taken a second set of soft tyres.


Edited by William Hunt, 09 May 2022 - 19:40.


#15 tyker

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Posted 21 May 2022 - 16:13

After Barcelona (Barcelona Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.49s (0.423s)

02. Albon 0.39s (0.27s)

03. Norris 0.33s (-0.184s)

04. Gasly 0.25s (-0.08s)

05. Magnussen 0.23s (0.686s)

06. Leclerc 0.22s (0.416s)

07. Vettel 0.12s (0.464s)

08. Verstappen 0.09s (0.347s)

09. Alonso 0.06s (-0.163s)

10. Russell 0.02s (0.119s)



#16 tyker

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 19:05

Very difficult today with the red flags and drivers having new tyre laps ruined, just a case of picking out the fair competitive laps.

 

After Monaco (Monaco Difference)

 

01. Bottas 0.49s (-)

02. Albon 0.47s (0.792s)

03. Norris 0.39s (0.698s)

04. Gasly 0.25s (-)

05. Leclerc 0.23s (0.225s)

06. Magnussen 0.21s (0.16s)

07. Vettel 0.12s (-)

08. Verstappen 0.09s (-)

09. Alonso 0.06s (-)

10. Russell 0.02s (-)



#17 Beamer

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 19:15

Very difficult today with the red flags and drivers having new tyre laps ruined, just a case of picking out the fair competitive laps.

After Monaco (Monaco Difference)

01. Bottas 0.49s (-)
02. Albon 0.47s (0.792s)
03. Norris 0.39s (0.698s)
04. Gasly 0.25s (-)
05. Leclerc 0.23s (0.225s)
06. Magnussen 0.21s (0.16s)
07. Vettel 0.12s (-)
08. Verstappen 0.09s (-)
09. Alonso 0.06s (-)
10. Russell 0.02s (-)

Why (-) with Vettel, verstappen, russel and Alonso?

Edited by Beamer, 28 May 2022 - 19:15.


#18 tyker

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 19:34

Why (-) with Vettel, verstappen, russel and Alonso?

Stroll, Hamilton and Ocon all had their new tyre runs ruined by red flags after previously setting a faster lap than their teammates.

 

Perez crashed and prevented his teammate from improving on his lap time.



#19 thegamer23

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 20:55

Super work as always tyker

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#20 Beamer

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 20:58

Stroll, Hamilton and Ocon all had their new tyre runs ruined by red flags after previously setting a faster lap than their teammates.

Perez crashed and prevented his teammate from improving on his lap time.


Ah, ok. Thx

#21 tyker

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 21:12

Thanks to both of you.  :up:



#22 tyker

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 19:10

After Baku (Baku Difference)

 

01. Albon 0.5s (0.648s)

02. Vettel 0.43s (1.047s)

03. Norris 0.36s (0.176s)

04. Magnussen 0.35s (1.132s)

05. Bottas 0.3s (-0.667s)

06. Leclerc 0.26s (0.455s)

07. Gasly 0.24s (0.211s)

08. Alonso 0.09s (0.225s)

09. Verstappen 0.07s (-0.065s)

10. Russell 0.05s (0.212s)



#23 William Hunt

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 19:50

Perez is doing a splendid job beiing so close to Verstappen this year



#24 William Hunt

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 16:09

Montréal has not been added yet



#25 markelov74

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 16:16

Montréal has not been added yet

 

Wet conditions



#26 William Hunt

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 16:39

Wet conditions

 

 

that's no reason at all not to add it. When you don't add a race you are manipulating the stats. In this case it is not fair to someone like Alonso who did an amazing job qualifying on the front row. Wet conditions are part of the game


Edited by William Hunt, 20 June 2022 - 16:41.


#27 Deeq

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 17:36

that's no reason at all not to add it. When you don't add a race you are manipulating the stats. In this case it is not fair to someone like Alonso who did an amazing job qualifying on the front row. Wet conditions are part of the game

Its not a Montreal only exception, Its on the OP, non of the wet sessions will be used in the stats (or have been used), no point complaining after the fact..maybe you can do your own.
BTW like OP says element of luck is greater than skill factor often and for most drivers..

Edited by Deeq, 20 June 2022 - 17:37.


#28 Claymore25

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 20:37

Wet qualys should be added. it's unfair to the better wet drivers.



#29 Fraser1994

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 22:50

Why would wet quails not count?

#30 MKSixer

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 23:09

Thanks, OP!

 

I think the dataset would be more complete with wet qualifying included as driving in the wet is a critical driver skill in F1.  

 

Again, thanks!

MK



#31 William Hunt

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Posted 20 June 2022 - 23:13

Exactly why I mentioned it: it is in wet conditions that drivers can show their talent and it's a critical skill for an F1 driver so I find it incomprehhensible to exclude this. It's in these conditions when drivers like Senna showed their skills even more. The stats feel incomplete and even manipulated now, I don't find this correct at all.


Edited by William Hunt, 20 June 2022 - 23:13.


#32 Sterzo

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Posted 30 June 2022 - 11:56

There are arguments both ways. Wet conditions are often variable conditions, which can lead to random results. We all know that tyker's comparisons are of qualifying in the dry, which is a perfectly valid thing to measure. And that some figures are excluded, in the interests of comparability. Yes, there are other ways to do it, but this one is pretty good.



#33 ARTGP

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Posted 30 June 2022 - 12:53

Considering that most all qualifying sessions are dry, the wet qualy chaos really won’t shift the averages in the dataset that much over a 23 race season. In other words, include them, or don’t, it’s weighting is very small.

Edited by ARTGP, 30 June 2022 - 12:53.


#34 Claymore25

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Posted 30 June 2022 - 13:04

Then maybe should be to comparisons. One with wet qualys and one withouy wet qualys.



#35 lamo

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Posted 30 June 2022 - 19:41

In some wet sessions, you can get 2-3 seconds between team mates due to optimum track conditions etc. it ruins the season average.

For example, in Canada, Albon out qualified Latifi by 9 seconds. Zhou beat Bottas by 2.7 seconds. Ricciardo beat Norris by 11 seconds 



#36 Claymore25

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Posted 30 June 2022 - 19:47

In some wet sessions, you can get 2-3 seconds between team mates due to optimum track conditions etc. it ruins the season average.

For example, in Canada, Albon out qualified Latifi by 9 seconds. Zhou beat Bottas by 2.7 seconds. Ricciardo beat Norris by 11 seconds 

Well, in a dry season could happen with a drs failure or being in the wrong tyres.



#37 sketchy2001

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Posted 01 July 2022 - 10:14

I appreciate the effort to produce something interesting but would like to add my voice to those with concerns.

 

Statistics aid in seeing correlation but any correlation is directly affected by any conditions placed on the raw data.

What you are presenting is a correlation that accounts for some aspects of luck, eg flags, but not others, eg a difference in torque on one bolt that ends up having a significant impact.

 

In theory, luck "should" mostly even out over time so maybe it would be better to compare a raw average fastest lap attained throughout Q1-3 alongside your more sanitised version?



#38 A.Fant

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Posted 01 July 2022 - 14:46

Well, in a dry season could happen with a drs failure or being in the wrong tyres.

Such technical failures also means the result for that particular driver pairing being disregarded in these summaries AFAIK.