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F1 set for a return to Kyalami?


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#1 BRK

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:38

Interest in having a South Africa GP back on the calendar seems to be peaking again..

 

The Race reports:

 

 

Formula 1 is likely to return to Kyalami with a revival of the South African Grand Prix.

Adding a race in Africa, where F1 has not had a presence since the last Kyalami race in 1993, has emerged as the next main priority for F1.

Kyalami will need to be upgraded to FIA Grade 1 status to secure the move and complete a full circle for a former grand prix venue that fell into disrepair not long ago.

F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali has stated his desire to add a grand prix on the African continent on multiple occasions in recent months. “On top of America, on top of China, I think there is a potential also to be in Africa soon,” Domenicali told Sky Sports F1 in March. “There is a lot of interest there. For sure that’s another area that so far is missing in the geography of our calendar.”

That is partly why a Kyalami deal now looks more likely to be the next major F1 calendar announcement.


Edited by BRK, 12 April 2022 - 09:39.


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#2 ar1

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:51

If they want a race in Africa, I'd imagine something cringy in Egypt around the pyramids with a hairpin round the Sphinx is what we'll end up with



#3 Risil

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:56

I like the sound of this, although Scott Mitchell's article there is a bit vague on the connection between F1 wanting a race in Africa soon, which Domenicali has said, and that race being at Kyalami, which he hasn't (on the record anyway).

 

The obvious choice, given how F1 likes to operate right now, would be a street course. But if that was being seriously pursued we'd have heard about it by now.



#4 Risil

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 09:57

If they want a race in Africa, I'd imagine something cringy in Egypt around the pyramids with a hairpin round the Sphinx is what we'll end up with

 

Nah, that's what they'd put in the first draft with the computer renders, and then in reality it would be a rectangle around some warehouses in Port Said and everyone would pretend the pyramids were next door, Tutankhamun's sarcophagus would be on all the promotional graphics, etc.



#5 rosswza

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 10:04

I seem to recall talk of a street circuit around Cape Town a few years ago - i'd personally much prefer this.



#6 Collombin

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 10:19

I like the sound of this, although Scott Mitchell's article there is a bit vague on the connection between F1 wanting a race in Africa soon, which Domenicali has said, and that race being at Kyalami, which he hasn't (on the record anyway)


My eyes lit up at mention of Kyalami until I remembered that the early 1990s Kyalami was dreadful, and the great Kyalami is long gone.

#7 Beri

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:02

In the Future F1 Venues topic, Ive had a little discussion with JimmyClark about the African Grand Prix. I think it was due to the same comments made by Dominicale. Which arent explicitly about Kyalami, but rather an African Grand Prix. I am still of the opinion that South Africa might not be the destination of F1 for an African Grand Prix. There are a couple of countries that have an economy that flourishes and do this in a better way than the South African economy does. This is mainly due to Chinese investments, but booming the economies are none the less. I expect countries like Nigeria or Egypt to be in the hot seat for a street race. And not so much Kyalami. This despite the Kyalami track looking absolutely awesome since its recent renovation. F1 follows the money, hence the reason why we race in Saudi Arabia and Qatar and a second Chinese Grand Prix might become a topic soon. Now having a Grand Prix in Nigeria in the Chinese funded Eko Atlanticnote, would also please China. As long as the propaganda is played out well. And, in that case, it kills two birds with one stone; get the Chinese more involved and have an African Grand Prix.
 
Note: This is Eko Atlantic:



#8 Risil

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:19

My eyes lit up at mention of Kyalami until I remembered that the early 1990s Kyalami was dreadful, and the great Kyalami is long gone.

 

The bike guys loved it in the 1990s and 2000s when World Superbike went there, although the track's safety was a worry as the speeds increased. Much tighter circuit than the old layout but they did create one great new corner, the fast downhill Mineshaft left-hander on the way back to the pits.



#9 jjcale

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:26

They should go to Nigeria or, even better, Angola ... countries that can afford to put on races and which are moving forward. Need a lot of Govt support to do F1 - even in the USA its basically a (local) govt project. 

 

UK would never get a race today - we dont like to spend govt money.

 

South Africa has the history ... but would they be willing to spend the money needed to make F1 work.... I dont think so.

 

But who knows ... predicting the future is the easiest way to look stupid.


Edited by jjcale, 12 April 2022 - 11:30.


#10 Ruusperi

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:43

Wasn't it just renovated few years ago? So probably getting Grade 1 license is just a formality.



#11 Jovanotti

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:45

In the Future F1 Venues topic, Ive had a little discussion with JimmyClark about the African Grand Prix. I think it was due to the same comments made by Dominicale. Which arent explicitly about Kyalami, but rather an African Grand Prix. I am still of the opinion that South Africa might not be the destination of F1 for an African Grand Prix. There are a couple of countries that have an economy that flourishes and do this in a better way than the South African economy does. This is mainly due to Chinese investments, but booming the economies are none the less. I expect countries like Nigeria or Egypt to be in the hot seat for a street race. And not so much Kyalami. This despite the Kyalami track looking absolutely awesome since its recent renovation. F1 follows the money, hence the reason why we race in Saudi Arabia and Qatar and a second Chinese Grand Prix might become a topic soon. Now having a Grand Prix in Nigeria in the Chinese funded Eko Atlanticnote, would also please China. As long as the propaganda is played out well. And, in that case, it kills two birds with one stone; get the Chinese more involved and have an African Grand Prix.

Note: This is Eko Atlantic:
https://www.youtube....h?v=Kf47C8iunnM

Please no.

#12 Myrvold

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:46

My eyes lit up at mention of Kyalami until I remembered that the early 1990s Kyalami was dreadful, and the great Kyalami is long gone.

 

It's been fixed a bit again. Removed that awful chicane before the last corner. I like the new Kyalami.



#13 TheFish

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:46

Is F1 or other motorsport popular in Nigeria or Angola?

 

I think it's time we were back in Africa, but it's another empty soulless Tilkedrome then it's pretty pointless.



#14 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:48

The obvious choice, given how F1 likes to operate right now, would be a street course.


Lagos would be a great choice. One of the largest cities in the world and growing quickly.

#15 noikeee

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 11:48

From simracing, classic Kyalami was awesome, modern one isn't as good but still pretty decent. Some people seem to love the layout specially in GT cars (might be a bit on the tight side for F1 cars)



#16 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:02

There's "Circuit Sidi Daoui" being built for years now in Morocco.



#17 Risil

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:06

Morocco would be another safe choice. They've already hosted quite a lot of motorsport, within easy reach of Europe, already a major tourist destination, relatively benign weather for racing. Don't know if they're interested.

#18 Clatter

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:20

So has the FIA actually been approached about hosting a race, or is it just a wish list when asked where next?

#19 Beri

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:27

Morocco would be a full circle for F1, after it has raced in Casablanca in the 50ies.



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#20 RA2

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:28

Kylami is a good idea to get a GP going in a developing country. When the Zandvoort could host with 10 million in track updates there is no reason Kylami should spend more. With regards to hosting fee, it would me more popular to collect a fat hosting fee from the billionaires paradise (most useless race track) Monaco, and give this one for free.

#21 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:33

My eyes lit up at mention of Kyalami until I remembered that the early 1990s Kyalami was dreadful, and the great Kyalami is long gone.


I don’t think the 1990s version was that bad. It still had most of the good bits of the old one and the mineshaft section is spectacular.

The recent extension of the front straight improves the new one a bit.

#22 Spillage

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:34

It would be cool to have a race in Africa. Viaiting every continent would make for a truly global world championship.



#23 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:35

We do not need more races, if we get an additional race we do not need a street race.

 

I expect to be disappointed on both points.

 

Edit to add NOT


Edited by KWSN - DSM, 12 April 2022 - 13:35.


#24 smitten

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 12:49

We do need more races, if we get an additional race we do not need a street race.

 

I expect to be disappointed on both points.

More races?  I assume you mean more circuits in regular use rather than more races per year?



#25 Collombin

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:01

I don’t think the 1990s version was that bad. It still had most of the good bits of the old one and the mineshaft section is spectacular


It's all relative, if I rewatched those races now I might be pleasantly surprised. My expectations of new F1 circuits have dropped somewhat in the intervening 30 years.

#26 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:27

More races?  I assume you mean more circuits in regular use rather than more races per year?

 

No I am pretty sure we will see 25 race weekends within next 5 years.



#27 RedRabbit

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:46

Kyalami is already a Grade 2 track, and I believe just needs a couple of safety upgrades mainly to improve barriers in some places.

#28 Afterburner

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 13:50

The bike guys loved it in the 1990s and 2000s when World Superbike went there, although the track's safety was a worry as the speeds increased. Much tighter circuit than the old layout but they did create one great new corner, the fast downhill Mineshaft left-hander on the way back to the pits.

To paraphrase you from a few weeks ago, the reality of this cannot possibly compare with what is playing in my head right now. :lol:

#29 Alfisti

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 14:12

Lagos would be a great choice. One of the largest cities in the world and growing quickly.

It's all one of the worlds dodgiest places. Seriously, you'd race in Nigeria? You gotta be kidding me, what an absolute cluster of a place. 



#30 pdac

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 14:20

No I am pretty sure we will see 25 race weekends within next 5 years.

 

Only 25?



#31 onewingedangel

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 15:17

It would be cool to have a race in Africa. Viaiting every continent would make for a truly global world championship.


I agree, no World Championship status should be granted until we have an Antarctic GP. 😁

#32 BRG

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 15:25

I agree, no World Championship status should be granted until we have an Antarctic GP.

Don't be silly, how would they ever get temperature into their tyres?



#33 Spillage

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 15:57

I think a street circuit around Ross Island shows real potential. All that's missing are some streets...



#34 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 16:05

Only 25?

 

I have to believe they will eventually come to their senses, but you may infer correctly that they can see even more than 25 happening.



#35 Anja

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 16:09

I agree, no World Championship status should be granted until we have an Antarctic GP.

 

And then we'd have complaints about another new GP with no fans... Unless the penguins show up I guess. 



#36 drionita

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 16:59

Don't be silly, how would they ever get temperature into their tyres?

Rather simply: instead of "wet race", they declare "white race" and force the teams to use a special Pirelli chewing gum sticking to the ice.


Edited by drionita, 12 April 2022 - 17:00.


#37 DinocoBlue

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 17:29

What about Durban?

 

https://youtu.be/bMKH8_5HDc8



#38 pdac

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 17:44

I have to believe they will eventually come to their senses, but you may infer correctly that they can see even more than 25 happening.

 

30 is their immediate goal.



#39 RA2

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 17:50

What about Durban?

https://youtu.be/bMKH8_5HDc8


Street circuits are expensive

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#40 PayasYouRace

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 18:15

Street circuits are expensive


Doesn’t seem to stop the current trend for them.

#41 H0R

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 20:02

Let's just return to the old track of Ain Diab!



#42 noikeee

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 20:06

What about Durban?

https://youtu.be/bMKH8_5HDc8


Hell yeah! I quite liked that one

#43 maximilian

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 20:06

Rather simply: instead of "wet race", they declare "white race" and force the teams to use a special Pirelli chewing gum sticking to the ice.

 

Careful mentioning "white race" in a thread about South Africa, because someone might think it refers to them needing to bring back apartheid in order to better fit F1's overall human rights violations theme  :stoned:  :wave:



#44 Jops14

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Posted 12 April 2022 - 22:27

Id love to see a race in africa, Kyalami woukd be great

But, i also think 20 races is the ideal number +/- 10%

#45 RA2

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 01:33

Doesn’t seem to stop the current trend for them.


So you are saying that even if they are offered a free GP, you would prefer the South Africans to spend 50 million a year on doing a street circuit rather than upgrading an existing facility for 10 million?

#46 alframsey

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 01:46

If they want a race in Africa, I'd imagine something cringy in Egypt around the pyramids with a hairpin round the Sphinx is what we'll end up with

Cheers for the optimism

#47 TheFish

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 05:47

Doesn’t seem to stop the current trend for them.

They've mostly been in wealthy places though.



#48 Beri

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 07:59

So you are saying that even if they are offered a free GP, you would prefer the South Africans to spend 50 million a year on doing a street circuit rather than upgrading an existing facility for 10 million?

 
Im not reading that at all. And aside from the made up numbers, a street race could very well be worth it. If a city needs promotion, what better way to do it than to show the audience scenic shots of your city with racing cars going through it? A permanent racing facility doesnt offer that. But a street circuit does. And it works for the charm of Monaco, but also for Baku/Azerbaijan who have had an influx of tourists when the Grand Prix arrived. Pretty much I can guarantee you that, if these numbers are accurate, the Grand Prix has paid itself back with the influx mentioned below.
 
1920px-Tourism_in_Azerbaijan.svg.png



#49 RA2

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:17

Does Baku and Monte Carlo have permanent circuits within the city? Do you have better numbers for cost of street circuits?

#50 Risil

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Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:49

Right, I know you are pulling a leg. Or at least it feels like it. But let me tell you this;
If a permanent racing facility is hosting a race, for instance lets say Spa, then the fans are dragged towards the track and its near vicinity. So the region does profit from the race. But the rest of the year, hardly anyone goes to Spa just to visit the track. Not even towards Liege for a city trip. And no way that Brussels is having an influx of tourists due to the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa. Whereas in the case of Baku, Monaco or in the future Las Vegas, people see the race and do want to visit the city. And this is even aside from those people who actually attend the race.
 
And on the subject of the numbers:
The Baku City Circuit needed alterations to be able to be converted to a Street Circuit. This has costed around 7.9 million dollars. The hosting of the Grand Prix itself for the 5 year period, including hosting fee of 55 million dollars, building up the track, building up facilities and also cleaning up afterwards, does cost less than 150 million dollars.
Simple math will tell you that 150 million dollars, minus the hosting fee of 55 million dollars, makes it 95 million dollars. At max. This divided by the 5 years the contract is long, makes it an investment of 19 million dollars per year to prep the circuit and all facilities each year.
If we look at the numbers in my earlier post, there is an difference in the influx of tourists by 1 million compared to the period preceding the Grand Prix. Which in effect tells me that if 1 million tourists spend around 100 dollars each, those 95 million dollars are already back in the monetary system of Azerbaijan. We all know tourists spend more and this is even calculated without the direct profits from ticket sales at the Grand Prix itself. Calculated with a bigger spending spree, and the taxes as profit alone, it is very well possible that the Grand Prix is very much worth it to Baku. And even more valuable to build its image. Because before the Grand Prix, hardly anyone ever thought about going to Baku. But right now, at least in my social environment, there are multiple people telling they want to visit Baku once. And I cant say that Spa does the same for Belgium or a major city near Spa.


Spa is a UNESCO world heritage site tbf. Mostly for historical interest as it was a major destination for the 18th and 19th century leisure classes seeking bathing cures, but it's still a nice place to visit and the countryside is beautiful.