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Lando Norris not defending


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#1 jacdaniel

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:15

It's something I have noticed a lot in the past but again today he seemed to almost slow down and let Charles get by.

What do people think of this? Personally, I think if a driver has big ambitions they should fight for everything on the track.

Or is it better to just let a faster car through and avoid all the hassle that comes with the battle?

I like Lando a lot but I think he needs to get some more fight in him.

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#2 Ben1980

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:16

What benefit is there for him, or anyone else, in fighting a car that is clearly faster, and potentially damaging his own race?

#3 ARTGP

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:17

He was saving his tires. They were on Inters that needed to go as long as possible. Ferrari was near 1 second a lap quicker. 


Edited by ARTGP, 24 April 2022 - 15:17.


#4 Scotracer

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:17

There is always judgement when fighting a faster car. You can end up making your own race worse by trying to hold up a much faster car - you just end up going slower.

The Ferrari was much faster and Lando knew it. And with DRS overtakes you can't start weaving or you get aeroplane crashes. Big speed differences and at Vmax. Look at Valterri and George last year.

#5 CrashPad

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:17

Absolutely no point in trying to keep Charles back in this situation & these conditions. Nothing to win, everything to lose. A no-brainer.



#6 pacificquay

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:17

Lando is a great fighter but his greatest strength is knowing the maximum result possible and getting it.

 

Clearly Ferrari was miles faster today, and he knew from the sprint how easily they could DRS past.

 

Hence sensible to lose as little time as possible and then build the gap to Russell.

 

And given that Lando beat LeClerc, maybe the Ferrari man was driving beyond his own ability…



#7 jwill189

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:18

It's something I have noticed a lot in the past but again today he seemed to almost slow down and let Charles get by.

What do people think of this? Personally, I think if a driver has big ambitions they should fight for everything on the track.

Or is it better to just let a faster car through and avoid all the hassle that comes with the battle?

I like Lando a lot but I think he needs to get some more fight in him.

 

The mediums needed to last 40+ laps and it wasn't near the end of the race. The McLaren and Ferrari are in different tiers of performance.



#8 Outsider

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:25

His team told him not to fight

#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:26

It's a skill knowing which battles are worth fighting.



#10 Clatter

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:29

It's something I have noticed a lot in the past but again today he seemed to almost slow down and let Charles get by.

What do people think of this? Personally, I think if a driver has big ambitions they should fight for everything on the track.

Or is it better to just let a faster car through and avoid all the hassle that comes with the battle?

I like Lando a lot but I think he needs to get some more fight in him.

 


There is a time to fight, and a time to maximise the result. It was the right call to ignore the fight.

#11 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 15:36

Considering Norris finished ahead of Leclerc I'd say it was a pretty good decision

#12 Coral

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:34

Lando made the right decision. Points win prizes!



#13 Primo

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:40

It's something I have noticed a lot in the past but again today he seemed to almost slow down and let Charles get by.

What do people think of this? Personally, I think if a driver has big ambitions they should fight for everything on the track.

Or is it better to just let a faster car through and avoid all the hassle that comes with the battle?

I like Lando a lot but I think he needs to get some more fight in him.

 

Had Charles caught up to him and started to challenge for that podium a few laps before the end, you'd seen a different Lando. Fighting harder there in the beginning would have, apart from being futile, hurt him.



#14 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:47

Is this not a DRS symptom? Makes it an unfair fight and pointless to even attempt trying to defend against the inevitable.

#15 Red5ive

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:48

Weird thread.

 

Zero point in "fighting" cars that are a second a lap quicker in a powerful DRS zone. Plus McLaren have had a long term policy now of "knowing their place" in order to save tyres, max points etc

 

Could they be more punchy on strategy at times - yes absolutely - was this race one of those times - of course not.



#16 CoolBreeze

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:55

Well at the end of the day, he's ahead of Charles. So the strategy worked.



#17 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:56

Is this not a DRS symptom? Makes it an unfair fight and pointless to even attempt trying to defend against the inevitable.

 

No it's not. This is basic racecaft that goes back before those who first thought of DRS were even born.



#18 noikeee

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 20:43

I absolutely hate it when drivers do this too, but it's a legit strategy to lose the least amount of time and take the least out of the tyres.

#19 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 20:47

I think I noticed Haas Magnassun did this too but then we are in the unofficial era of B teams supporting A teams.

Edited by flyboym3, 24 April 2022 - 20:48.


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#20 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 20:50

P4 fights p5
P4 holds up p5
P6 catches p4/5

P4 is now in p6 with trashed tyres

#21 noikeee

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 20:51

I think I noticed Haas Magnassun did this too but then we are in the unofficial era of B teams supporting A teams.


Yeah I didn't think that was a coincidence at all. Most aggressive driver on the field just lets another one through. Hmmmm.

#22 JeePee

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:00

What benefit is there for him, or anyone else, in fighting a car that is clearly faster, and potentially damaging his own race?

I don't know, maybe ask Verstappen. He knows a thing or two about this,

 

I've stated the same some time ago. Lando misses the fighting spirit to be put in the same league of the big boys.



#23 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:05

Yeah I didn't think that was a coincidence at all. Most aggressive driver on the field just lets another one through. Hmmmm.

Yeah but only on the track for points. They don't do these gifts back in maranello, nod nod wink wink ;)

Everybody covered the inside line except Magnussen.

Edited by flyboym3, 24 April 2022 - 21:06.


#24 New Britain

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:07

I don't know, maybe ask Verstappen. He knows a thing or two about this,

 

I've stated the same some time ago. Lando misses the fighting spirit to be put in the same league of the big boys.

And yet he is clearly better than his teammate Danny Ricciardo, who two seasons ago was considered to be one of 'the big boys'. :rolleyes:



#25 pacificquay

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:07

 

 

I've stated the same some time ago. Lando misses the fighting spirit to be put in the same league of the big boys.

No shame in admitting you’ve been consistently wrong ;)



#26 Bleu

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:10

I don't know, maybe ask Verstappen. He knows a thing or two about this,

 

I've stated the same some time ago. Lando misses the fighting spirit to be put in the same league of the big boys.

 

The last one is really only one which you can compare to today. Relatively early (laps 17-18 in 56-lap-race). Other two are late-race fights for high positions when of course driver does it all to keep driver behind.



#27 JeePee

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:13

Everybody covered the inside line except Magnussen.

Magnussen did. Lando didn't.



#28 Ben24

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:42

There was a race last season where letting the faster driver through when he could've easily held them off for at least another lap or 2 cost Lando podium because of the way the race turned out. On average, over the course of an entire season, it probably pays off overall to play it safe like he tends to so I guess it makes sense. There is always the chance it backfires and ends up costing you badly though. Doesn't make for exciting viewing at all as a spectator either when drivers put up absolutely no fight



#29 cpbell

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:45

Lando is a great fighter but his greatest strength is knowing the maximum result possible and getting it.

 

Clearly Ferrari was miles faster today, and he knew from the sprint how easily they could DRS past.

 

Hence sensible to lose as little time as possible and then build the gap to Russell.

 

And given that Lando beat LeClerc, maybe the Ferrari man was driving beyond his own ability…

Yes, he played the percentages like a veteran driver today.



#30 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:48

Magnussen did. Lando didn't.

Jeez did Magnussen brake half way down the straight. FIA looking the other way everytime this happens and pretend they don't know what's going on.
I don't blame Haas though, nothing worse than last year when gasly pretended to lose control and go off track to let max through, was that Austria.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Edited by flyboym3, 24 April 2022 - 21:49.


#31 pdac

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 21:54

There was a race last season where letting the faster driver through when he could've easily held them off for at least another lap or 2 cost Lando podium because of the way the race turned out. On average, over the course of an entire season, it probably pays off overall to play it safe like he tends to so I guess it makes sense. There is always the chance it backfires and ends up costing you badly though. Doesn't make for exciting viewing at all as a spectator either when drivers put up absolutely no fight

 

They're not there for your entertainment.



#32 Ben24

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 22:12

They're not there for your entertainment.

Is that a joke?  :confused:



#33 ANF

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 22:26

Magnussen did. Lando didn't.

It's often better to defend the outside rather than the inside into Tamburello. But Lando seemed to lift early there, he probably didn't think there was any idea putting up a fight.

#34 chhatra

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 22:26

Of course he did the right thing.

If the delta between McLaren and Ferrari was half of what it is now then I’m sure he would have tried harder. He also mentioned he wrecked his tires in the sprint trying to keep pace with the leaders, so it was mature of him to learn and apply that today.

#35 mclarensmps

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 01:58

Have a look at where Kmag finished if you want to see what happens when someone mindlessly defends a battle that isn't there to be won. 



#36 Ragamuffin

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 02:22

He's not Eddie Van Halen, he's Robbie Robertson.



#37 Lazy

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 04:47

Is that a joke?  :confused:

No.

They are racing, you can watch if you want.

The whole thing loses value if they become entertainers.



#38 New Britain

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:27

No.

They are racing, you can watch if you want.

The whole thing loses value if they become entertainers.

This is perhaps a subject for another thread, but isn't the point that without fans there would be no professional racing, certainly not at a level approaching the expenditure of Formula One, unless the people ultimately paying for it - racing fans - were being entertained?

 

One might debate whether, for example, a Haas fan or Magnussen fan would rather see Kevin defend like a madman against a car that was inevitably going to overtake him anyhow, ruin his tyres in the process, and consequently finish a couple of places lower than he would have done if he had not ruined his tyres, or instead let the faster car past without futilely battling it.

The answer would be a matter of personal preference, but I should think many Haas fans would be delighted for Haas to finish the season in the midfield in WCC, rather than 9th or 10th, and in that competition all points can matter.

 

Getting back to the specific thread topic, Lando has established himself as one of the best drivers on the grid with both racing nous and combativity. I'd rather he have both qualities and use each at the right time than he have loads of one but none of the other.



#39 TheJag

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:36

You’re right. I’ve seen Lando do it so many times.
He’s not a fighter which is why he’ll never be WDC.

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#40 messy

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:40

Personally I quite like that he takes this approach - it’s clever and works for him. More drivers should take a note. He just gets his head down and ensures that he finishes the race in the quickest time possible. It’s about picking your battles. I doubt if, one day, with a race victory or a championship on the line, he’ll be quite as meek. If he is, then fine, criticize him for it then - but for now it’s absolutely the right strategy.

#41 Lazy

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:45

This is perhaps a subject for another thread, but isn't the point that without fans there would be no professional racing, certainly not at a level approaching the expenditure of Formula One, unless the people ultimately paying for it - racing fans - were being entertained?

 

One might debate whether, for example, a Haas fan or Magnussen fan would rather see Kevin defend like a madman against a car that was inevitably going to overtake him anyhow, ruin his tyres in the process, and consequently finish a couple of places lower than he would have done if he had not ruined his tyres, or instead let the faster car past without futilely battling it.

The answer would be a matter of personal preference, but I should think many Haas fans would be delighted for Haas to finish the season in the midfield in WCC, rather than 9th or 10th, and in that competition all points can matter.

 

Getting back to the specific thread topic, Lando has established himself as one of the best drivers on the grid with both racing nous and combativity. I'd rather he have both qualities and use each at the right time than he have loads of one but none of the other.

F1 became the premier motorsport series because it was pure racing. They do what they need to do to win, that's what make it interesting.



#42 Lazy

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:46

You’re right. I’ve seen Lando do it so many times.
He’s not a fighter which is why he’ll never be WDC.

Yeah, tell that to Alain Prost.



#43 Mat13

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 05:56

You’re right. I’ve seen Lando do it so many times.
He’s not a fighter which is why he’ll never be WDC.


I bet he’s really wishing he’d defended harder yesterday.

#44 jacdaniel

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 07:54

I actually like Lando a lot but I have seen him do this so many times now and it's just something that an Alonso, Max or Lewis would never do.

#45 Clatter

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 08:22

Yes, he played the percentages like a veteran driver today.


I'm sure the team played their part in it as well. The scenarios would have been discussed before the race, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were radio messages as well.

#46 BRG

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 08:44

Brilliant, faultless and mature drive by Norris yesterday.  How could he or anyone else have done any better in that car as it is at present?  



#47 Marklar

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 08:46

sure let's defend against the inevitable and finish 8th, why not

#48 Risil

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 09:28

Scott Mitchell on The Race's Imola review podcast reported that McLaren instructed Norris over the radio not to fight Leclerc as the Ferrari driver was recovering from his second pitstop.

So, mystery solved?

#49 BRG

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 09:32

So, mystery solved?

Yes, except it was never a mystery.  Just an opportunity to attack Norris.



#50 Ali623

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Posted 25 April 2022 - 09:38

He defended hard against Hamilton in Monza last year, so it's more picking his battles rather than being a subdued defensive driver I would say.