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Has Racing Got Any Better?


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#1 ColeTrickle44

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:46

I’m not so sure it has. Without doubt cars can follow more closely but is that actually translating into improved races? The effect of slipstreaming seems to have diminished.

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#2 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:48

I think this weekend was messed up by the early parc ferme and teams not taking the right setup directions due to the crappy Friday

#3 Marklar

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:49

there is certainly a trade off but even if it got harder when you are within 0.3s the fact that you get close enough without ruining your tyres forever and that you can repass is a huge plus

#4 noriaki

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:49

I’m not so sure it has. Without doubt cars can follow more closely but is that actually translating into improved races? The effect of slipstreaming seems to have diminished.

 

It was Imola and wet off the line today.

 

Did you watch the first two races at all?



#5 Red5ive

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:50

Seems to me what they have gained in being able to follow closely they have lost in slipstream on the straights and many of the new cars are very unstable under late braking also.



#6 ARTGP

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:50

It's the nature of Formula 1. You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Strong slipstreams are a direct result of nasty turbulent wakes. Those nasty turbulent wakes kill following.   You can't have good following ability and strong slipstreams at the same time. 

 

I prefer it this way. As long as you can follow closely, you can capitalize on mistakes of others. DRS isn't a bad party trick right now either.


Edited by ARTGP, 24 April 2022 - 16:51.


#7 Celloman

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:50

So far it has helped, but due to reduced slipstreaming not as much as they would have liked probably. Having said that, basically nobody overtook last year on Imola either when the track was wet and DRS was disabled. You are still going to need DRS on most tracks, at least in some form.



#8 Muppetmad

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:52

Unusual circumstances inhibited the racing today. By Spa, we'll hopefully have a good sense of how racing is looking across a broad spectrum of F1 circuits.



#9 Fastforward

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:53

Yes.

#10 Laptom

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:53

At first impression. Yes. Let's wait till summer break, but it is looking good.

#11 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:53

I’m not so sure it has. Without doubt cars can follow more closely but is that actually translating into improved races? The effect of slipstreaming seems to have diminished.

 

On the basis of the five races so far this year...

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long answer: Yes of course.



#12 CoolBreeze

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:53

it has gotten better. Imola is a narrow track.



#13 SophieB

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:56

In general, I think it’s better. Imola is notorious for being hard to pass but at the risk of introducing another contentious argument, I think the problems were possibly exacerbated by the sprint race. I think that what happened this race is likely to happen in future, namely does it ‘correct’ (for want of a less loaded expression) for unexpected, mixed up quali grids?
 

It probably needs more tracks to be sure.



#14 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 16:57

All that research and analysis, all that bigging up...and we have ended up still needing DRS passes. Watching the first half of the race without DRS was great insight how we've went backwards to 2006.

Collosal waste of time and money and the cars are too big and heavy for the tracks now also.

I hope that they don't stick with this formula until 2026.

Need smaller more agile and nimble cars.

The car and track is all out of proportion.

#15 Izzyeviel

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:01

racing is better. Even on days like today, there always seemed the possibility that an overtake was coming soon.



#16 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:06

They could save a lot of money by quietly swapping all the cars for F2 cars and repainting them

#17 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:13

racing is better. Even on days like today, there always seemed the possibility that an overtake was coming soon.

Dont know if you watched the sky sports UK commentary but they were begging for DRS to be enabled such was the lack of spectacle.

#18 Goron3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:16

All that research and analysis, all that bigging up...and we have ended up still needing DRS passes. Watching the first half of the race without DRS was great insight how we've went backwards to 2006.

Collosal waste of time and money and the cars are too big and heavy for the tracks now also.

I hope that they don't stick with this formula until 2026.

Need smaller more agile and nimble cars.

The car and track is all out of proportion.


The cars line up in pace order. What do you expect?

We had cars following each other, lap after lap, without having to look after the tyres. It was superb imo.

#19 P123

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:18

The cars can follow a bit closer, so that is one box ticked.  DRS is still required to enable passing, so ultimately nothing has changed as there is probably less of a tow than before, so one problem solved and another created.  I think the notion of it being better is based on some battles for the lead, but even those have mainly been enabled by an increase in DRS zones, rather than the new chassis rules.



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#20 ARTGP

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:18

All that research and analysis, all that bigging up...and we have ended up still needing DRS passes. Watching the first half of the race without DRS was great insight how we've went backwards to 2006.
 

 

A bit short sighted. Imola with one drying line straddled by two fully wet lines is a big part of why there was little overtaking. There's no where to go. Get off the drying line and you have considerably less grip.



#21 Mark1865

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:33

Of course the rules have made it better, that much was clear after the first three races and even today it was evident that cars could follow more closely than previous years.

However today wasn’t very representative as Imola is unsuitable for modern F1, the main reason being that it’s too narrow. Add in a damp track off the racing line and it was always going to be difficult to pass. Give me a desert-based tilkedrome over a narrow old school track any day.

#22 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:35

Yes, easier to follow and better on the tires.

Imola has track specific problems.

#23 Boing Ball

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:36

All that research and analysis, all that bigging up...and we have ended up still needing DRS passes. Watching the first half of the race without DRS was great insight how we've went backwards to 2006.

Collosal waste of time and money and the cars are too big and heavy for the tracks now also.

I hope that they don't stick with this formula until 2026.

Need smaller more agile and nimble cars.

The car and track is all out of proportion.

Did you watch the other races? The cars are actually slightly smaller than they have been since 2018. Not that matters a lot, because the small and nimble cars couldn't overtake either without DRS.



#24 Bloggsworth

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:46

Folowing has, racing hasn't...



#25 TomNokoe

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:50

Did you watch the other races? The cars are actually slightly smaller than they have been since 2018. Not that matters a lot, because the small and nimble cars couldn't overtake either without DRS.

Yes, they could!!



#26 ARTGP

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 17:52

Yes, they could!!

 

Michael Schumacher called and he wants Imola '05 back....



#27 Clrnc

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:11

Racing is definitely better. This is always a tough track to pass and anyway we don't want to make passing so easy like just DRS and zoom past as always. Just right. 



#28 SuperMax

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:16

It has definitely improved. Today was an off race due to nature of the track being to narrow, and it being wet of the racing line. However as cars are still pretty big expect similar for Monaco and Zandvoort

#29 Laptom

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:19

A bit short sighted. Imola with one drying line straddled by two fully wet lines is a big part of why there was little overtaking. There's no where to go. Get off the drying line and you have considerably less grip.


This...

#30 jpm2019

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:19

Racing has improved a lot. 

What they need next are brakes who are twice as bad as they have now, smaller cars and good tracks with the right amount and lenght of DRS zones. 



#31 SuperMax

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:21

Racing has improved a lot.

What they need next are brakes who are twice as bad as they have now, smaller cars and good tracks with the right amount and lenght of DRS zones.


Agree with the smaller cars, however i think end goal should be to have no DRS. How would bad brakes improve the racing?

#32 FNG

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:47

I'm truly baffled at people complaining about the racing. Even the last few years. I have never seen more passing in my life in F1 than the last few years. Either people forget, or they have never watched racing from 10-15 years ago. If people want constant passing I think they may have to watch oval racing. These new rules  definitely allow closer racing.

I'm perplexed at what people think F1 should be.

 

A pass for the lead at the front happened maybe once or twice in a whole season back in the day! I can't even count how many over the last few years.


Edited by FNG, 24 April 2022 - 18:49.


#33 Boing Ball

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:53

Agree with the smaller cars, however i think end goal should be to have no DRS. How would bad brakes improve the racing?

I think he wants longer braking distances, but brakes are already weaker than they could be. Longer braking distances would really require less downforce.



#34 Cyanide

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:53

They need to make the cars more stable under braking and the tyres more durable. You don't see big divebombs anymore, drivers are sooo reluctant with the brakes that it makes passing extremely difficult. It's been visible in Bahrain, but much more evident here.

#35 jpm2019

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:56

Agree with the smaller cars, however i think end goal should be to have no DRS. How would bad brakes improve the racing?

 

would improve overtaking i think. 

 

no drs would be a dream, but not possible for F1 i think. Reason is not the cars, but just that it has become so competative that the differences are to small for good overtaking delta's on merit. 



#36 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 18:58

Yes, they could!!

 

Only with a 2s a lap advantage, and that doesn't happen very often.



#37 Bartonz20let

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:03

I've thought this a few times since race 1 and honestly, no, I think the new cars are horrible, they look better stationary but on track, ugh.

They look heavy and cumbersome, I don't think the racing has improved much, if at all, and we seem to have replaced one issue with another.

Perhaps dethroning Merc makes it worthwhile, I dunno but it feels like a step back.

Perhaps I'm getting old but I'm really starting to miss watching small, light, agile cars, these things are just too fat.

Edited by Bartonz20let, 24 April 2022 - 19:03.


#38 BRK

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:05

Yes, it has. Perhaps not for a few drivers and their fan communities, and that is not F1's problem. 



#39 MatsNorway

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:07

Racing is miles better, anyone who think worse brakes solves overtakes have no clue. In effect you just make the straights shorter. It will never happen either, not on purpose, you can take out downforce but that really is a different matter as you just let them follow closer out on the straight. That i am all for.

 

Porpoising will be "solved" by next year..  For the future I would not be surprised if the brush skirts re appear in the distant future in some updated rules. It help the low ride height and less stiff cars in tight corners.


Edited by MatsNorway, 24 April 2022 - 19:09.


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#40 jwill189

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:07

I've thought this a few times since race 1 and honestly, no, I think the new cars are horrible, they look better stationary but on track, ugh.

They look heavy and cumbersome, I don't think the racing has improved much, if at all, and we seem to have replaced one issue with another.

Perhaps dethroning Merc makes it worthwhile, I dunno but it feels like a step back.

Perhaps I'm getting old but I'm really starting to miss watching small, light, agile cars, these things are just too fat.

 

No, it's not just you. A lot of people said we'll get used to these big, awkward cars, but I hate them as much as when I saw them crawl around the corners in Bahrain.



#41 flyboym3

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:08

They need to make the cars more stable under braking and the tyres more durable. You don't see big divebombs anymore, drivers are sooo reluctant with the brakes that it makes passing extremely difficult. It's been visible in Bahrain, but much more evident here.

Yeah I agree.

Anyone else when they watch just get the feeling/sensation they are driving around big tanks and not really racing the car?

I get the feeling that the cars are just floating around the track and are detached from the tarmac like they are hovering around like the Titanic.

Optically just doesn't feeling like yesteryear with glued to the track hardcore racing machines.

 

I also missing watching the drivers being able to dance the car around corners on their rear axle.

I miss Verstappen being able to drive agressively with the car showcasing his talent - he is having to nerf it and that means the formula is wrong.


Edited by flyboym3, 24 April 2022 - 19:09.


#42 Topsu

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:08

Yes it has. Hamilton followed Gasly so many times through Variante Villeneuve, and the front looked snappy and responsive despite being very close to him. Last year's car would have understeered like hell.


Edited by Topsu, 24 April 2022 - 19:08.


#43 Bartonz20let

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:10

Yes, it has. Perhaps not for a few drivers and their fan communities, and that is not F1's problem.

It's not about fans really, I've followed Lewis since the start but I love seeing British drivers do well... usually I'd be extatic woth Lando and George but today I found myself more concerned about what I watched as a whole.

I disagree it's track specific too, I just don't think the new cars look in any way impressive on track.

Edited by Bartonz20let, 24 April 2022 - 19:13.


#44 Bartonz20let

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:13

No, it's not just you. A lot of people said we'll get used to these big, awkward cars, but I hate them as much as when I saw them crawl around the corners in Bahrain.


Yeah, Bahrain was the eye opener, I think removing the downforce has really exposed just how frumpy these cars really are.

#45 Primo

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:14

I’m not so sure it has. Without doubt cars can follow more closely but is that actually translating into improved races? The effect of slipstreaming seems to have diminished.

 

 I cannot remember last time I saw a slipstream pass in F1, They never got close enough without DRS. 



#46 Risil

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:31

It's not perfect but I feel things have improved.

Wasn't expecting much passing at Imola unless drivers were out of position or the one in front made a mistake.

The DRS free overtaking we did see at Imola, and even some of the close following, was a joy. I saw one into the Acque Minerali chicane, one into Rivazza, and a pretty mad attempt from Stroll going down the hill at the end of the lap. Hamilton got stuck behind Gasly for ages but I expect some of his inability to move forward was lack of confidence in the car, and he's too wise a head to try and force it and crash out of 14th place.

The unpredictability of knowing that a driver could be stuck behind a slower car unless they use their skill and courage and make something happen is something that I've missed, and I hope we can get it back with these regs.

#47 noikeee

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:33

Super tight track with short straights and wet off the line. Come on guys what did you expect.

#48 Risil

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:36

Super tight track with short straights and wet off the line. Come on guys what did you expect.


There was also very little in the way of strategy intrigue once everyone had gone to dries, until Leclerc started messing around going for fastest lap.

#49 P123

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:37

Yes, it has. Perhaps not for a few drivers and their fan communities, and that is not F1's problem. 

 

Ah, for the days when an element of the forum would have a meltdown about DRS whenever one LH used it to make an easy pass. :)



#50 Anderis

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Posted 24 April 2022 - 19:37

Sometimes I wonder if people have been watching races or if they remember the previous few years.

 

For me it's obvious the improvement has been huge. Cars can follow a lot more closely which always increases tension and makes drivers more vulnerable to small mistakes, which they seem to be making a lot more often this year, probably partly because of it. We've seen some counterattacks in the previous few races which had been extremely rare in the previous set of rules, when the dirty air was so bad that the overtake was only possible if the car behind had enough pace to drop the car in front like a stone after a successful overtake. In Imola, the DRS seemed a little overpowered but in the previous races there have been much fewer maneuvers that were completed halfway through a straight than in previous years. For me it seems like now drivers battle each other, whereas in the previous few years it was more like the driver behind battled against dirty air to get close enough to allow him a DRS fly-by.

 

For me, the difference is VERY visible and I'm very happy with the new rules. I enjoy watching F1 races much more this year.