90 replies to this topic

[ARTGP]

....at two races  .

 

F1 to trial 'revised qualifying format' in 2023 - The Race (the-race.com)

 

 

At these trial events, drivers must use the hard compound in Q1, the medium compound in Q2, and the soft in Q3. If a session is declared wet, any compound may be used.

The intention is also to reduce the number of tyres used on a grand prix weekend, as the events with the revised qualifying format will cut the mandated tyre allocation from 13 sets of slick tyres to 11 sets.

 

 

[Ragamuffin]

This'll go down well.

[aray]

Not bad idea.

[OO7]

If it ain't broke...

[RA2]

They should be restricted to just 2 sets of softs in qualifying.

[IrvTheSwerve]

They should be restricted to just 2 sets of softs in qualifying.

One set for the season. 

[OO7]

They should be restricted to just 2 sets of softs in qualifying.

I don't think they should they be restricted at all.

[IrvTheSwerve]

It’s really strange, this fixation F1 have with messing around with qualifying. I think if you asked fans what is wrong with F1, qualifying would probably be on less than 10% of their lists.

 

They need to just accept that qualifying in its current guise is pretty much perfect. It does the job, it entertains, it’s different from a race…leave it alone.

[pacificquay]

It’s not a new qualifying format, it’s the same qualifying format with different tyre allocations.

[PlatenGlass]

Sounds like another tyre gimmick rather than a qualifying gimmick per se.

Really I think they should have separate tyre allocations for qualifying and race so they don't hand an extra advantage to the quicker teams who are able to save tyres. Plus teams should just be able to qualify hard without worrying about compromising the race.

[OO7]

It’s not a new qualifying format, it’s the same qualifying format with different tyre allocations.

Not needed in my opinion.  F1 should look elsewhere for sustainability improvements.  The funny thing is, they want to reduce tyre usage and be more sustainable, yet continuously add more events to the calendar!

[Beri]

Not needed in my opinion. F1 should look elsewhere for sustainability improvements. The funny thing is, they want to reduce tyre usage and be more sustainable, yet continuously add more events to the calendar!

Reduce usage one set per car per weekend, and this adds up around 1800 individual tires per year.

I call that a significant reduction as a start.

[danmills]

Ridiculous when certain cars are better on different sets in a race.

[OO7]

Reduce usage one set per car per weekend, and this adds up around 1800 individual tires per year.

I call that a significant reduction as a start.

Reducing the number of events would lead to a far greater reduction in tyre usage and an appreciable increase in sustainability, but I hear you.

Edited by OO7, 01 May 2022 - 08:01.

[P123]

Tinkering because...... I don't know?  Helps Pirelli reduce freight costs?

[Beri]

Reducing the number of events would lead to a far greater reduction in tyre usage and an appreciable increase in sustainability, but I hear you.

I totally agree. But one has to start somewhere, don't they?

[OO7]

I totally agree. But one has to start somewhere, don't they?

That's fair.  I like the current set-up because it allows for practice Q3 runs in Q1 and Q2.

[PayasYouRace]

Changed the title, hopefully to reduce the “outrage”.

[TauriJ]

April 1st?

[ANF]

April 1st?

Nope.

The Commission unanimously agreed to trial a reduction in the tyre allocation from 13 sets to 11 at two events in the 2023 season. This will be done to evaluate the impact of the reduction in tyre allocation on track-running, with the overall intention to move to more sustainable use of tyres in the future.
https://www.fia.com/...media-statement

[jpm2019]

Less tyres means less track action. Weird.

[TomNokoe]

Doesn't make sense. My gut reaction is that this a kneejerk change in response to pulling the Q2 rule to reintroduce a little bit of variety into qualifying, but it's just such a random and bizarre idea.

I sort of understand the whole thing about sustainability, even if it's a bit short-sighted, but limiting tyre usage in this very specific way is so strange.

We can keep qualifying exactly how it is and still reduce the tyres used for the weekend, so I don't really understand how they've married these two ideas together.

What's most concerning is that the powers that be think this is necessary at all. I can't think of a recent change that has been so blatantly "change for changes sake".

If they think qualifying is now a little too formulaic, there are other, more legitimate format tweaks they can try. Although, funnily enough, I don't think this particular tweak will make too much difference in mixing up the grid anyway, if that's their intention.

It also tells me we are going to be stuck with three dry compounds for a long time, which I'd wish they'd change

Edited by TomNokoe, 01 May 2022 - 09:31.

[PlatenGlass]

Having just one dry tyre compound available would presumably reduce the number of sets needed.

[ANF]

Just a reminder of what the current (non-sprint) tyre allocation looks like:

2 sets of hards
3 sets of mediums
8 sets of softs

Tyres are then returned to Pirelli after each practice session and after Q3, so going into the race, Q3 drivers have 6 sets remaining and non-Q3 drivers have 7 sets. Of these remaining sets, 2 must be of the mandatory race specification/compound.

[KWSN - DSM]

Ridiculous when certain cars are better on different sets in a race.

 

Solid argument for an organization looking to spice the show up then.

[KWSN - DSM]

Changed the title, hopefully to reduce the “outrage”.

 

 

Have you learned nothing from being on this forum for years? There is always outrage.

 

[Clatter]

Just a reminder of what the current (non-sprint) tyre allocation looks like:

2 sets of hards
3 sets of mediums
8 sets of softs

Tyres are then returned to Pirelli after each practice session and after Q3, so going into the race, Q3 drivers have 6 sets remaining and non-Q3 drivers have 7 sets. Of these remaining sets, 2 must be of the mandatory race specification/compound.

Do the Q3 drivers still get an extra set allocated to them?

[Victor]

Another solution for a non-existent problem...

[Clatter]

Not bad idea.

That's what I think. It doesn't change the qualifying format, but has potential to make things interesting if a team has problems with a particular compound. For the most part we won't really see any difference other than on the stop watch.

[ANF]

Do the Q3 drivers still get an extra set allocated to them?

No, they actually have to return one of their 8 sets of softs after Q3 whereas non-Q3 drivers will have that set of softs available for the race. I don't think they ever did get an extra set but I'm not sure.

[Clatter]

No, they actually have to return one of their 8 sets of softs after Q3 whereas non-Q3 drivers will have that set of softs available for the race. I don't think they ever did get an extra set but I'm not sure.

I think they always had to give up a set at the end of Q3, but they also used to get an extra set of softs for Q3.

[Mark521]

If they really want to make things spicy, then let the teams decide which compound in each qual period.  Can the top of the grid get out of Q1 on the hards versus the bottom on softs? 

Flat spot a tire early and you are screwed.  Could mix up the grid.

 

Frankly I'm not for this but if they want random then add a bit of strategy to the mix.

[r4mses]

Why "test" this (and other) sh*t on certain weekends only? If you're confident, the stuff you came up with is good, go for it. Otherwise, stfu and go back to your basement for Christ's sake.

 

It's not like the Fifa goes "weeeell... let's play two games next WC with just 10 players each side and larger goals. Let's see how it works out". It's just F1 which fiddles with things that aint even broken but doesn't even have the balls to go all in on their bs ideas.

[PayasYouRace]

 

Have you learned nothing from being on this forum for years? There is always outrage.

 

 

Yes but at least we can keep the outrage to what's actually going on rather than to imagined changes based an a poor thread title.

[pdac]

Just have one compound (well, two: dry & wet) - it will solve all of the issues.

[Anderis]

We can keep qualifying exactly how it is and still reduce the tyres used for the weekend, so I don't really understand how they've married these two ideas together.

I don't think it would work well. What it would likely end up like is strongest teams getting to Q2 on a slower tyre and the midfield teams have no fastest tyre left for further segments of the qualifying, making them a bit of a joke.

 

The current tyre allocation is already stretched to the limits if you want a weekend with FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2 and Q3 with all teams running in all sessions and having a level playing field in all Q segments. Unless you just want to scrap some of the FPSs altogether, the proposed rule makes sense if reducing tyre usage is your goal.

Edited by Anderis, 01 May 2022 - 13:16.

[SenorSjon]

Juat give the team xx sets of each compound and they have to allocate it through the season. That is 299 sets in 23 events. So 60 sets of each of the 5 compounds. You need to bring 3 compounds to a track and unused tires aren't returned.

Edited by SenorSjon, 01 May 2022 - 13:49.

[Rediscoveryx]

Actually, this may not be such a bad idea. Assuming that different cars work differently well on different tyres (presumably true), this could stir things up a bit.

[Brian60]

Why not just plump for one compound for an entire weekend, Hell, lets make it the entire season. Say the mediums at every event, then let the teams decide if they can run to the end on degrading tyres, or whether they need to stop for new ones.

[Hati]

This is good idea, actually something I may have suggested somewhere sometime. Only problem is that qualifying quota should be separated from race quota.

 

This would enable Pirelli to make less tires, when Q1 starts the mechanics go to Pirelli truck and get hard tires for the session, in between Q1 and Q2 mechanics of those drivers who still continue pick up medium tires from the truck and on last break mechanics of top-10 go and get soft tires for the last part. So they can make 40 sets of hard, 30 sets of mediums and 20 sets of soft for qualifying.

[IrvTheSwerve]

Just have one compound (well, two: dry & wet) - it will solve all of the issues.

 

With DRS and cars that follow each other closer, that's probably not a bad shout really.

 

How often do we get someone on softs chasing someone hards, 30 secs down, at 2 secs a lap? I dunno, I'm sure someone will tell me it happens all the time.

 

Having someone at the front pit for softs overtake someone at the back going long on hards (with DRS also) isn't really that enthralling is it? But it counts as a pass, therefore excitement.

[Clatter]

Why "test" this (and other) sh*t on certain weekends only? If you're confident, the stuff you came up with is good, go for it. Otherwise, stfu and go back to your basement for Christ's sake.

It's not like the Fifa goes "weeeell... let's play two games next WC with just 10 players each side and larger goals. Let's see how it works out". It's just F1 which fiddles with things that aint even broken but doesn't even have the balls to go all in on their bs ideas.

It would be quite normal if Fifa make rule changes to test them in friendlies, F1 doesn't have that luxury, so choosing a few random races to test something like this makes good sense.

[KWSN - DSM]

Yes but at least we can keep the outrage to what's actually going on rather than to imagined changes based an a poor thread title.

 

 

I am outraged.

[Bleu]

I think they always had to give up a set at the end of Q3, but they also used to get an extra set of softs for Q3.

No it's that Q3 runners use that set there and rest of the grid have it for the race.

 

Look at this tyres available, top 10 drivers have six sets and bottom 10 have seven.

 

https://twitter.com/...767399820472321

Edited by Bleu, 01 May 2022 - 17:26.

[Heyli]

I dont really think it'll make much difference, but it probably wont hurt either? I like the qualy format and they're not changing that, so I am happy with them trying some minor tweaks I guess...

[Seanspeed]

With DRS and cars that follow each other closer, that's probably not a bad shout really.

 

How often do we get someone on softs chasing someone hards, 30 secs down, at 2 secs a lap? I dunno, I'm sure someone will tell me it happens all the time.

 

Having someone at the front pit for softs overtake someone at the back going long on hards (with DRS also) isn't really that enthralling is it? But it counts as a pass, therefore excitement.

Even if it doesn't happen 'all the time', having different strategy options in terms of tire choice is still a benefit to the racing on average.  Wouldn't want to see it go.  It's one of the more legitimate ways to help the spectacle.  

[KWSN - DSM]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of going hard, medium, soft.

[Seanspeed]

This is good idea, actually something I may have suggested somewhere sometime. Only problem is that qualifying quota should be separated from race quota.

I actually think it would be best if they didn't separate them. 

 

Means teams that get knocked out in Q1 would have an extra set of fresh mediums and softs for the race, while those get knocked out of Q2 have an extra fresh set of softs.  Which wouldn't be too drastic of a difference right now, but if they're cutting back to 11 sets per team next year instead of 13, then that might actually pose a genuine advantage.  

 

I suppose you could argue this is just punishing faster teams, but I'd imagine most would still agree track position is far more important.  Though perhaps for those who can only get to like P8 to P10, it might feel bad having cars behind you have an advantage.  But then we've also dealt with that for plenty of years as well with the whole 'top 10 start on tires they qualified on' rule, which I think worked fine. 

 

So I dunno.  I wouldn't hate this change, though.  I dont think it would 'shake things up' much at all, but that doesn't seem to be the main aim anyways. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 02 May 2022 - 13:20.

[romaincrouton]

Interesting, I'm for anything that can shake up a starting grid and have more cars out of position.

Also since they've taken away the Q2 mandatory compound rule this is a pretty logical next step no?

I wonder is it might take away some alternative strategies in the race?

[Bartonz20let]

Why "test" this (and other) sh*t on certain weekends only? If you're confident, the stuff you came up with is good, go for it. Otherwise, stfu and go back to your basement for Christ's sake.

It's not like the Fifa goes "weeeell... let's play two games next WC with just 10 players each side and larger goals. Let's see how it works out". It's just F1 which fiddles with things that aint even broken but doesn't even have the balls to go all in on their bs ideas.

Yeah, it's funny really, the obsession with constant change.

Like a cost cap coming into new regs this year, complete contradiction.

Sometimes I think the sport doesn't know what it wants.