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A new EV thread - not Texas!


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#1 mariner

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Posted 01 May 2022 - 16:39

I am not sure if I agree at all with this guy's opinion that GM are the smartest EV strategists of the traditional OEM's as we have had great promises from GM about being "new" for decades.

 

However the point that you need a new factory building a clean sheet EV architecture is what Tesla did , and pretty much had to do as newbie.

 

https://www.streetmu...ed-c8-corvette/

 

There is this old Irish joke which is probably appropriate here.

 

 Visitor is lost in Ireland so he stops and asks a local how to get to his destination - "Well if I wanted to get there I wouldn't have started from here " says the Irish local. 


Edited by mariner, 01 May 2022 - 16:55.


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#2 Greg Locock

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 00:24

Yes, trying to slam a big battery into an existing design is a very ugly business. I'm not so convinced that EVs and ICs on the same assembly line is bad news, it depends how ingenious the assembly line engineers are. Keeps the workers awake if nothing else (working on the line is at once boring and hard work).



#3 BRG

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 09:57

It's a non-issue.  An assembly line is an assembly line. It just needs to be set up for a particular design.  Obviously you aren't going to be assembling completely different designs on the same line. 

 

There is no need to build a brand-new green field factory just because you will be making EVs rather than ICEVs.  That is just more of the 'Tesla Cult' beliefs that are so much of the problem cluttering up this debate.  Tesla only built a new factory because they didn't have one before.  It wasn't some amazing genius master-stroke.



#4 just me again

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 10:35

Yes, trying to slam a big battery into an existing design is a very ugly business. I'm not so convinced that EVs and ICs on the same assembly line is bad news, it depends how ingenious the assembly line engineers are. Keeps the workers awake if nothing else (working on the line is at once boring and hard work).


Peugeot 208 - 2008 and Opel Corsa - Mokka is examples on cars which from birth have been designed as both EV and ICE cars.
I would think they all 4 is assembled on the same lines?

#5 Magoo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 13:44

In the car biz, the term is "scar tissue." John McElroy provides an explanation. 

 

 



#6 Magoo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 13:54

It's a non-issue.  An assembly line is an assembly line. It just needs to be set up for a particular design.  Obviously you aren't going to be assembling completely different designs on the same line. 

 

There is no need to build a brand-new green field factory just because you will be making EVs rather than ICEVs.  That is just more of the 'Tesla Cult' beliefs that are so much of the problem cluttering up this debate.  Tesla only built a new factory because they didn't have one before.  It wasn't some amazing genius master-stroke.

 

There is nothing wrong with a particular building. The Tesla Fremont plant is a former General Motors facility that was constructed in 1961. 

 

The problems are in the people, the mindsets, the corporate culture. The establishment automakers are dragging a tremendous amount of baggage. 



#7 BRG

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 14:02

 

The establishment automakers are dragging a tremendous amount of baggage. 

Some might term it a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience in making cars, but hey, Elon knows better , eh?



#8 Magoo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 14:49

Some might term it a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience in making cars, but hey, Elon knows better , eh?

 

I've worked in the auto industry my entire life, and I think the advantage is grandly overstated. Ford Motor Co. is 119 years old. GM is 115. Toyota in its current form is 89. There are countless things they do not because they are good for the product, or the company, or the workers, or the customers, but simply because that is the way they do them. They can't even tell you why. Often they're not even aware they are doing them. 

 

There is a tremendous amount of institutional inertia. The problem has been likened to trying to turn an aircraft carrier around but really, it's like a continent trying to change direction. 

 

The first bit of reality we need to recognize is that the establishment automakers couldn't even envision an EV industry. It took Elon Musk and Tesla to get them off the dime. 


Edited by Magoo, 02 May 2022 - 15:00.


#9 BRG

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 16:00

 

The first bit of reality we need to recognize is that the establishment automakers couldn't even envision an EV industry. It took Elon Musk and Tesla to get them off the dime. 

Such BS.  Renault brought out the Zoe in 2005 when Tesla was still just Musk's pipedream.   



#10 smitten

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 17:11

Such BS.  Renault brought out the Zoe in 2005 when Tesla was still just Musk's pipedream.   

The Zoe has only been in production since 2012.



#11 Magoo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 17:49

Such BS.  Renault brought out the Zoe in 2005 when Tesla was still just Musk's pipedream.   

 

The Renault Zoe did not start deliveries until late 2012, around six months after the Tesla S. 

 

More to the point, the Renault Zoe was the establishment auto industry's idea of an electric vehicle. 



#12 Canuck

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 20:36

While I work in a not-automotive segment, I have three times now gone from small, fast startup to multinational acquired. In EVERY case, the speed of transaction goes through the floor no matter the nature of the transaction. Rapid development and execution is replaced by Wall Street-driven accounting metrics and practices. Authority gets bogged down in endless layers of reviews and approvals. I can’t imagine 100 years of policies and processes and mindsets and culture trying to hang on for dear life as the industry becomes, what’s the buzzword…disrupted by new vision.

I suppose if you don’t like Elon Musk as your perception presents him to your consciousness, you’re obligated to dismiss the very real accomplishments he’s driven. I wouldn’t go so far as to say “he did all of this” so much as “he paved the way and cleared the obstacles so this could be done”. Not to take anything away from his apparently considerable intelligence.

#13 BRG

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 22:10

The Zoe has only been in production since 2012.

But the concept cars that it was developed from date from 2005.  So I guess that is where Tesla got its inspiration.



#14 GreenMachine

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 22:28

Range anxiety, not so much.

 

Motoring journo's Melbourne-Sydney-Melbourne trip, with diversions, ~2000kms.

 

https://www.drive.co..._medium=partner .

 

This trip proved to me that while range anxiety is no longer the issue, charger anxiety is. If one 350kW charger is down, it takes that day’s EV traffic up to five times longer to charge on 50kW stations. That's assuming they’re all working.



#15 Magoo

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Posted 02 May 2022 - 22:42

But the concept cars that it was developed from date from 2005.  So I guess that is where Tesla got its inspiration.

 

Not a serious comment. Tesla's EV technology is many years ahead of Renault. 



#16 gruntguru

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 01:52

Range anxiety, not so much.

 

Motoring journo's Melbourne-Sydney-Melbourne trip, with diversions, ~2000kms.

 

https://www.drive.co..._medium=partner .

 

This trip proved to me that while range anxiety is no longer the issue, charger anxiety is. If one 350kW charger is down, it takes that day’s EV traffic up to five times longer to charge on 50kW stations. That's assuming they’re all working.

Key point to make is that Australia lags significantly in charging infrastructure. Add in the long distances between populated centres and Australia is the the first developed country you would expect to see EV range anxiety.



#17 gruntguru

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 01:54

But the concept cars that it was developed from date from 2005.  So I guess that is where Tesla got its inspiration.

Tesla had the original Roadster - in production - from 2008 - long before Zoe.



#18 Greg Locock

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 04:38

Imagine what an Ev1 would be like with LiPo batteries. That's the direction 'we' should have gone. I like big fast heavy cars but really, if you think about it, they are a bit daft for most people.



#19 just me again

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 07:07

Charger anxiety will always be an issue. Due to most EV's home charge close to 100% of times. There is no business model that cater for holiday traveling.

If traveling with an EV. You need to plan your charging as you go.by looking on your apps while driving!!!

When I go shopping. It is normal to see a car waiting for the shop 50KW charger to be free! Even on "normal" days!

Only way to negate that is to buy a Tesla. So you widens your charging opportunities!
As far as I know a Tesla charger is also way cheaper than a non Tesla charger!!

My plan is to wait to buy an EV for traveling until there is a Tesla 2. Which hopefully will be competitive priced against cars like the 2008?

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#20 smitten

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 09:05

Charger anxiety will always be an issue. Due to most EV's home charge close to 100% of times. There is no business model that cater for holiday traveling.


It really isn't, I charge at home about 50% (by energy, 75% by incidence), and I suggest you look at destination chargers; hotels (or campsites, holiday cottages etc) with multiple 7 or 11kW posts in the car park are a simple, cheap, option which will bring them business.
 

If traveling with an EV. You need to plan your charging as you go.by looking on your apps while driving!!!


You really don't - most built in sat navs will suggest chargers en-route.
 

Only way to negate that is to buy a Tesla. So you widens your charging opportunities!
As far as I know a Tesla charger is also way cheaper than a non Tesla charger!!


I don't think that USP holds in the EU/UK where all vehicles have mandated common sockets. Yes, Superchargers are a little cheaper and locations are currently closed to other brands, but the difference in cost for a 20-80% charge is about equivalent to the UK cost of one litre of unleaded. 



#21 BRG

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 09:14

Not a serious comment. Tesla's EV technology is many years ahead of Renault. 

Of course it is, Magoo.  Everything that Tesla does is amazing and wonderful and ahead of the game. They can do no wrong   :rolleyes:

 

The truth is that Tesla were in the right place at the right time and made hay while the sun shone.  But now BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc are making EVs every bit as good as Tesla.  And they are BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches, which consumers are familiar with and will be far happier to buy.  Tesla are loved by the early adopter fraternity but the common herd will prefer brands with legacy.

 

Tesla had the original Roadster - in production - from 2008 - long before Zoe.

Oh yes, the electric Lotus Elise, built by Lotus.

 

There were plenty of EV s around long before Tesla.  Back in 1900, a third of  cars on the road in New York were electric.  GM was experimenting with EVs in the 1980s and 90s



#22 just me again

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 09:33

It really isn't, I charge at home about 50% (by energy, 75% by incidence), and I suggest you look at destination chargers; hotels (or campsites, holiday cottages etc) with multiple 7 or 11kW posts in the car park are a simple, cheap, option which will bring them business.


You really don't - most built in sat navs will suggest chargers en-route.


I don't think that USP holds in the EU/UK where all vehicles have mandated common sockets. Yes, Superchargers are a little cheaper and locations are currently closed to other brands, but the difference in cost for a 20-80% charge is about equivalent to the UK cost of one litre of unleaded.


Here. I believe EV sales are 40% and rising.
If you have no problems finding a charger. Then, It is only because not many is driving EV where you are,!

#23 smitten

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 09:39

Here. I believe EV sales are 40% and rising.
If you have no problems finding a charger. Then, It is only because not many is driving EV where you are,!

I'm UK and I have no problem finding a charger because they are everywhere!  Literally.  There are areas where it could be better, but you are never short of options around here.

 

Have a look at one of the maps like Plugshare.



#24 just me again

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 09:49

They are everywhere here too. Often they are just already in use.

#25 smitten

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 10:05

They are everywhere here too. Often they are just already in use.

When you want to use them?  If demand in your area is so high that all the rapids are running at 100% utilisation then the networks will be falling over themselves to install more.  Which is good news, surely?



#26 Magoo

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 10:48

Imagine what an Ev1 would be like with LiPo batteries. That's the direction 'we' should have gone. I like big fast heavy cars but really, if you think about it, they are a bit daft for most people.

 

Yep. Indeed. Imagine where General Motors would be today if it had stuck with the EV1 and stayed in the EV game. 

 

But unfortunately, for all the money, time, and exposure GM invested in the EV1, it was ultimately and in effect a compliance vehicle. 

 

Tesla made the commitment where GM did not. 



#27 Magoo

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 10:59

Of course it is, Magoo.  Everything that Tesla does is amazing and wonderful and ahead of the game. They can do no wrong   :rolleyes:

 

The truth is that Tesla were in the right place at the right time and made hay while the sun shone.  But now BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc are making EVs every bit as good as Tesla.  And they are BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches, which consumers are familiar with and will be far happier to buy.  Tesla are loved by the early adopter fraternity but the common herd will prefer brands with legacy.

 

 

 

I have offered considerable criticism of Tesla and Musk in these discussions. All you are saying is you resent my positive statements. 

 

No, the fact is that none of the automakers have caught up with Tesla yet. Who has a real, dedicated EV platform? Only a few. Who has inverters and electronics integration comparable to Tesla? Nobody. Who has a global supercharger network? Only Telsa.  

 

There is no question that many consumers will prefer legacy brands over the new EV brands. But as the establishment automakers continue to dally, the numbers of legacy buyers will dwindle. And either way, Musk will achieve his stated goal: converting the auto industry to EV production. 



#28 Magoo

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 11:11

 

There were plenty of EV s around long before Tesla.  Back in 1900, a third of  cars on the road in New York were electric.  GM was experimenting with EVs in the 1980s and 90s

 

There were numerous electric vehicle manufacturers in the early years of the automobile, roughly 1895-1920. They did not contribute in any direct way to the electric car renaissance of the 21st century. The leader of that movement, far and away, is Tesla. 



#29 Charlieman

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 11:47

While I work in a not-automotive segment, I have three times now gone from small, fast startup to multinational acquired. In EVERY case, the speed of transaction goes through the floor no matter the nature of the transaction. Rapid development and execution is replaced by Wall Street-driven accounting metrics and practices. Authority gets bogged down in endless layers of reviews and approvals.

There's that theory about three layers of company management.

Layer 1: Startup (or disaster recovery) requires rapid change and high risk.

Layer 2: Consolidation brings in more experienced management, people who are more risk averse but able to continue change by dodging pitfalls.

Layer 3: Established companies employ managers who fit with the expectations of investors and accountants, maybe with teams conducting ambitious innovation.

 

I can never work out whether Tesla fits in with Layer 1 or Layer 2.



#30 Canuck

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 15:44

Of course it is, Magoo. Everything that Tesla does is amazing and wonderful and ahead of the game. They can do no wrong :rolleyes:

The truth is that Tesla were in the right place at the right time and made hay while the sun shone. But now BMW, Mercedes, Porsche etc are making EVs every bit as good as Tesla. And they are BMWs, Mercedes and Porsches, which consumers are familiar with and will be far happier to buy. Tesla are loved by the early adopter fraternity but the common herd will prefer brands with legacy.

Oh yes, the electric Lotus Elise, built by Lotus.

There were plenty of EV s around long before Tesla. Back in 1900, a third of cars on the road in New York were electric. GM was experimenting with EVs in the 1980s and 90s

2 points.
1) An anecdata of N=1. Good friend’s boss splashed out last year on a Taycan for himself and an X Plaid for his wife. First impression “the Tesla makes the Porsche feel like an old VW”. I assume that’s in the performance category and not overall vehicle quality. However, shortly after that conversation, the Taycan broke down and at last check had been in the shop for ever all weeks without resolution.

2) your own comments re GM had EVs 30 years ago, supports Magoo’s earlier point that established car companies can’t get out of their own way. Tesla started relatively clean sheet and is now light-years ahead of the rest, even with their patents freely available for use.

You can twist it any way you like, but the proof is in the pudding and so far the pudding is pretty tasty.

#31 cbo

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 17:27

I like EVs and would have one if it fit my needs. But so far I had to make do with a PHEV because..

A: I often go on vacation in places where the charging network is either non-existant, difficult to find, not working and very slow... or occupied. While the charging network along some European motorways may be OK, there are som big, white spots on the charging map when it comes to rural areas.

B. We often tow a heavy trailer (caravan). EVs are brilliant towing vehicles, but the range is halved when towing, so you have to charge often. And few chargers are trailer friendly, so it will usually mean unhooking the trailer, charging and hooking up again.

But for daily transport, shopping, commuting etc. an EV would be great.

But it would not be a Tesla. The engine and battery system appears to be the best, but build quality is not impressive and the basic construction is apparently a nightmare to repair if you damage the car and because of this, insurance and repair is costly.

I also dislike the idea of controlling the car by a big screen, but that is a cancer that spread rapidly among new cars today.

#32 gruntguru

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Posted 03 May 2022 - 22:13

 . . . B. We often tow a heavy trailer (caravan). EVs are brilliant towing vehicles, but the range is halved when towing, so you have to charge often. And few chargers are trailer friendly, so it will usually mean unhooking the trailer, charging and hooking up again. . . . .

 

Next big thing - caravans with 100 kW.hr battery built in. Extend towing range and run appliances for off-grid camping.



#33 Canuck

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Posted 04 May 2022 - 00:29

That’s a neat idea. Pumps up the cost of the trailer a fair amount but I like the concept.

#34 404KF2

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Posted 04 May 2022 - 01:38

Also adds to the pendulum effect in crosswinds!



#35 mariner

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Posted 04 May 2022 - 13:13

Interesting comments on legacy mfrs. - maybe I could add a perspective of my own which doesn't condemn all legacy companies as its not that simple.

 

I workned for bit as a finance guy in Chrysler which certainly made lots of mistakes but was also a permanent number 3 - or in Europe worse.

Despite that it has survived three owners and now is the main profit source for Stellantis so even legacy mfrs. can fix things.

 

More generally I spent a lot of my bean counting time doing product profit analysis and it is incredibly hard for an established company to deliberately destroy its existing business just to stand still.

 

The tire industry had to do that with radials but what company wants to spend zillions to produce product which lasts twice as long unless somebody else does it first?

 

Kodak has gone bankrupt because digital imaging replaced its core profit source, the ongoing film sales but it wasn't because they didn't recognize the digital challenge. Kodak had 6,000 digital patents when it went bankrupt.

 

The problem was that a) they didn't have the technology edge and mfg cost/ volume edge on digital storage they had on film and b) by going digital all they would do was destroy their own revenue base.

 

Thus a company, Kodak, GM , Goodyear etc has to be convince of an unstoppable risk to it's income AND be able to persuade its investors that sinking huge chunks of profit to just get close to a new, disruptive technology is worth it. Most investors ware unlikely to  to buy into that, they will just sell their shares and move on.


Edited by mariner, 04 May 2022 - 13:14.


#36 cbo

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Posted 04 May 2022 - 15:24

Next big thing - caravans with 100 kW.hr battery built in. Extend towing range and run appliances for off-grid camping.


Electrified caravans are definately part of the solution and manufacturers are working on various prototypes.

The most promising are caravans with electric motors, that help propel the caravan and regenerates energy from braking. And you save the money for an electric mover 🙂.

Battery size could vary - smaller ones just for driving and bigger ones for extra autonomy.

But they are just prototypes, currently.

https://youtu.be/sG3IRXvezDA

#37 cbo

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Posted 04 May 2022 - 15:30

Also adds to the pendulum effect in crosswinds!


With electric motors on the caravan, ESC (Electronic Stability Control) would likely be a standard feature. ESC works great today, even if it only uses the brakes of the caravan.

#38 Canuck

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Posted 05 May 2022 - 01:43

I hear you Mariner. The creators of the smart phone segment also felt they knew more than some glorified Walkman manufacturer. Their products were light years ahead of the competition and every business leader and a number of world leaders owned them too. And yet, Steve Jobs turned the BlackBerry cart upside and the rest is history. I understand Kodak and others being reticent to embrace the change, but at least within the automotive sector, you aren’t killing off your business. If electric cars are a better solution to personal transport than hydrocarbon versions as Magoo asserts, the future is written. Get on board or join BlackBerry, Kodak and any number of world-beating-but-defunct companies.

#39 Magoo

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Posted 05 May 2022 - 22:47

According to ACEA, BEVs nearly doubled their market share in 1Q 2022 over the same period last year, and now stands at 8.9 percent. 

 

 

 

https://www.reuters....cea-2022-05-05/



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#40 gruntguru

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Posted 05 May 2022 - 23:13

Worry over oil price?



#41 Greg Locock

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 02:48

Most legacy OEMs have problems getting parts at the moment, as well, so production volumes for ICVs  are down. It's a big issue. Funnily enough I went to  business related course 20 years ago, and they suggested that you should keep raising prices until cashflow falls, and then reoptimise your production process around those lower volumes.

 

You'll often hear about the economies of scale from assorted nuff-nuffs. Turns out, at some point, they don't really work. For example, with an alloy wheel, you'll get about 10000 wheels from a tool (from memory), before it needs refurbishing, which'll take 1-2 months

 

Meanwhile you are making them in a factory that can do 50 an hour. So you spend a lot of time doing tool changes between runs of different wheels, and end up with boxes of expensive parts waiting for the vehicle assembly line to use up the spares while the tool gets refurbbed. Or you build another tool (in practice we used to run about 3 of any one design if we had orders to back it up), and then spend more time on tool changes and have fewer parts in storage. The only way we'd really see an economy of scale is if we could run the line at the same speed as the vehicle line and dedicate one line to that wheel. Given the take rate for any given wheel, not happening. Also, frankly, the profit on an OEM wheel is about as much as the cardboard box it ships in, a wheel plant only makes money from its aftermarket sales.


Edited by Greg Locock, 06 May 2022 - 03:05.


#42 gruntguru

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 03:24

Surely BEVs have the same current supply chain issues as ICV's?



#43 Canuck

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 04:24

ASML - maker of machines that make silicon chips, has a virtual stranglehold on the market. They have technology that nobody else has meaning their machines (that go to Intel and the like) are beyond the bleeding edge of technology.

Funny thing is, they can’t get chips for their machines, which delays the delivery of the machine that makes the chips…

#44 Magoo

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 05:19

How Tesla is murdering the ICE cars in USA sales in its category -- BMW 3 series, Lexus ES, et al. 

 

 

 

https://www.autoweek...nal-vehicles/?s



#45 Greg Locock

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 07:24

gruntguru- no, Tesla in particular is vertically integrated because they haven't had the MBAs in. So while we chasing the cheapest parts possible (China et al, and screwing our local suppliers) they were building relationships with local suppliers and leveraging that. In other words Tesla are doing what we were saying we do, but don't do. Apparently the big problem with ICVs is,ironically, chips.



#46 Magoo

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 10:07

The legacy automakers like to use well-aged, commodifed---generic, if you will---microprocessor and semiconductor chips. They are dirt cheap and can be carried over through mulitple generations of vehicles without costly and time-consuming redesigns of the surrounding systems. 

 

With their lower profit margins, questionable demand, etc, these chips are passed down through the manufacturing industry to the more marginal manufacturing regions and plants. So when the supply chains become stretched to their limits, here the chain may fracture completely, producing indefinite disruptions in supply. 

 

That's how I've been hearing it, anyway. 

 

Ford and GM recently announced plans to formally partner up with manufacturers to obtain a guaranteed supply. Tesla designs many of its own chips and then contracts directly for their production or produces in-house. 



#47 djr900

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Posted 06 May 2022 - 19:06

[quote name="gruntguru" post="9877736" timestamp="1651807472"]

Surely BEVs have the same current supply chain issues as ICV's?

They must have, remember - Cyber truck & Semi Truck ?
Both of these are a couple of years late , from the original promised release dates

For the Cyber truck , maybe the delay is with the "unbreakable" Tesla Armoured Glass

#48 Magoo

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Posted 07 May 2022 - 00:27

[quote name="gruntguru" post="9877736" timestamp="1651807472"]

Surely BEVs have the same current supply chain issues as ICV's?

They must have, remember - Cyber truck & Semi Truck ?
Both of these are a couple of years late , from the original promised release dates

For the Cyber truck , maybe the delay is with the "unbreakable" Tesla Armoured Glass

 

 

The main holdup with the Tesla Semi and Cybertruck launches is that the company is already producing all the Model Y and Model 3 vehicles it possibly can. 

 

Every month the company sets a new production record and yet every month the sales backlog increases. Is now up to July-Aug 2022 for the Model 3 and Nov 2022-Feb 2023 for the Model Y. 

 

Annual production is now over 1 million units --- and still climbing now that the Texas and Berlin plants are online. 

 

The Cybertruck glass stunt is one of the great moments in automotive marketing. 



#49 Nathan

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Posted 13 May 2022 - 02:05

Some might term it a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience in making cars, but hey, Elon knows better , eh?

 

heh, I have a friend who at 42 years old tries to justify his lack of post-secondary education by saying he has 'life experience'.  In his endless attempts to think of a business to start I have come to see his experience is so busy reminding him of what didn't work before, and what's now on the line, and how his life would have to change, and how most things go wrong, that he talks himself out of every good idea and maintains status-quo.  If I want to re-invent the wheel I probably don't want experienced wheel designers on the job, I would prefer someone technically able, but coming at it with a fresh set of eyes. 



#50 Nathan

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Posted 13 May 2022 - 02:11

 

They must have, remember - Cyber truck & Semi Truck ?
Both of these are a couple of years late , from the original promised release dates

For the Cyber truck , maybe the delay is with the "unbreakable" Tesla Armoured Glass

 

It comes down to making the most of limited battery production capacity.  Tesla is balancing the most profit per kwh of battery sold between cars, trucks and storage.  Current Tesla models are around 20% on the margins.  So you can install 80kwh in a $60k car and profit $12k, or you can install 800kwh in a semi and not for your life get $120k of margin out of it.  It's similar with the cyber truck.