1647 replies to this topic

[mjjTT]

Some nice full radio of Max and Charles. 
What surprised me was the amount of coaching Charles got. Telling him to brake 5 meter later for turn 11. I thought this was not allowed.

https://www.youtube....h?v=zESStf08p5Y

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=0rNQ07LOU28

[Jerem]

Some nice full radio of Max and Charles. 
What surprised me was the amount of coaching Charles got. Telling him to brake 5 meter later for turn 11. I thought this was not allowed.

https://www.youtube....h?v=zESStf08p5Y

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=0rNQ07LOU28

There was some kind of driver coaching ban but it resulted in ridiculous situations (remember Hamilton in Baku having to guess on the radio what he had to do to solve some issue?). So I think now everything is allowed again.

[ANF]

There was some kind of driver coaching ban but it resulted in ridiculous situations (remember Hamilton in Baku having to guess on the radio what he had to do to solve some issue?). So I think now everything is allowed again.

This was back in the Bernie days. The ban only lasted the first eleven rounds of 2016.

[Requiem84]

Some nice full radio of Max and Charles.
What surprised me was the amount of coaching Charles got. Telling him to brake 5 meter later for turn 11. I thought this was not allowed.
https://www.youtube....h?v=zESStf08p5Y

https://www.youtube....h?v=0rNQ07LOU28

I’m surprised Leclerc needs much coaching during the race.

[AustinF1]

This was back in the Bernie days. The ban only lasted the first eleven rounds of 2016.

Damn, it's hard to believe it's already been that long.

[mjjTT]

There was some kind of driver coaching ban but it resulted in ridiculous situations (remember Hamilton in Baku having to guess on the radio what he had to do to solve some issue?). So I think now everything is allowed again.

Yes, that was a strange situation.

 

In the sporting regulation it still says:

33.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.

[Paa]

I’m surprised Leclerc needs much coaching during the race.

 

I think it makes sense. I rather see it as extra information, than coaching, but in some case it is borderline.

 

I'm more surprised that Max doesn't get / need any of that. 

[boomn]

Yes, that was a strange situation.

 

In the sporting regulation it still says:

33.1 The driver must drive the car alone and unaided.

When Bernie was afraid that all the radio talk about car settings as well as coaching being broadcast would make F1 look too easy and got the FIA to instate that radio ban, that existing regulation was simply used as the justification.  The regulation predated the radio ban and was intended for entirely different technological things.  And when the FIA did a quick vote to rescind the radio ban, the regulation was left untouched because it was still needed for the things it was actually intended for.  I'm glad we got through that farcical period somewhat quickly

[w1Y]

That was around 0.8s if I remember correctly. That still leaves 2.2s which is a lot.

I think one of maxs strengths is his outlap to be honest.

How many times has a 3-4sec gap completely dissappear when max has tried an undercut before. That's not all tyres.

[nivoglibina]

I think it makes sense. I rather see it as extra information, than coaching, but in some case it is borderline.

 

I'm more surprised that Max doesn't get / need any of that. 

He does get it, but not very often. I can't remember what it was exactly but GP gave some info during the Miami race, I think it was about the corner after the first DRS zone.

[Paa]

Some nice full radio of Max and Charles. 
What surprised me was the amount of coaching Charles got. Telling him to brake 5 meter later for turn 11. I thought this was not allowed.

https://www.youtube....h?v=zESStf08p5Y

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=0rNQ07LOU28

 

I listened through both thanks for linking.

80% of the communication are the gaps to the car in front and behind. Maybe mixed with their lap times sometimes.

 

I think it would make sense to put this info to the steering wheel so they don't have to talk about this all the time. I guess it is not possible currently, but I wonder why? Drivers seem to be interested about this and I don't really see any reason why they could not get this info through their screen?

I'm not sure if they get a notification when the driver behind gets DRS? It would make sense too. Similar to fighter jet pilots, when they are alarmed that something locked on them.

[AustinF1]

I listened through both thanks for linking.

80% of the communication are the gaps to the car in front and behind. Maybe mixed with their lap times sometimes.

 

I think it would make sense to put this info to the steering wheel so they don't have to talk about this all the time. I guess it is not possible currently, but I wonder why? Drivers seem to be interested about this and I don't really see any reason why they could not get this info through their screen?

I'm not sure if they get a notification when the driver behind gets DRS? It would make sense too. Similar to fighter jet pilots, when they are alarmed that something locked on them.

[ARTGP]

No it's not. It can keep you from being overtaken which can gain you way more than 5s.

 

Exactly. If we are talking about Monaco, all it takes is one track cut to stave off the one chance the attacker might have all day. 

[RA2]

Ok, too many complaints on the track surface. Diamond Cut!!!!

 

[Clatter]

I listened through both thanks for linking.
80% of the communication are the gaps to the car in front and behind. Maybe mixed with their lap times sometimes.

I think it would make sense to put this info to the steering wheel so they don't have to talk about this all the time. I guess it is not possible currently, but I wonder why? Drivers seem to be interested about this and I don't really see any reason why they could not get this info through their screen?
I'm not sure if they get a notification when the driver behind gets DRS? It would make sense too. Similar to fighter jet pilots, when they are alarmed that something locked on them.

Pit to car telemetry is not allowed, so they can't send info that way.

[PayasYouRace]

Pit to car telemetry is not allowed, so they can't send info that way.

The drivers get split times on the days though. Surely they can get gaps to cars in front and behind?

[Paa]

Pit to car telemetry is not allowed, so they can't send info that way.

 

I know they can't now, I'm just saying they should be able to.

[Clatter]

Is there still a pit-to-driver radio ban on the Formation Lap?

Don't think it's banned, but there are things they cannot tell the driver.

[Clatter]

The drivers get split times on the days though. Surely they can get gaps to cars in front and behind?

Are those split times via telemetry, or a function of the software on the car?

[PayasYouRace]

Are those split times via telemetry, or a function of the software on the car?

I’m not sure. They might be driven via the transponders directly, but I’d have thought it would work off the timing system, so including gaps to cars in front and behind shouldn’t be too difficult.

If all else fails, the pit boards are still a thing.

[mjjTT]

Maybe they can use those parking sensors I have on my car.  The harder  it beeps the closer the other car is.   

 

Seeing the strange crashes in Miami, some drivers could use a 360 camera on their car. 

[RedRabbit]

No it's not. It can keep you from being overtaken which can gain you way more than 5s.

That's hypothetical though. If you gain 1s cutting a corner and lose 5s as a penalty, the loss is greater than the gain.

If the following car is unable to make up that 1s, it was never likely to make an overtake stick.

If Alonso was on his own on track, he would likely get a track limits warning.

[Clatter]

I’m not sure. They might be driven via the transponders directly, but I’d have thought it would work off the timing system, so including gaps to cars in front and behind shouldn’t be too difficult.

If all else fails, the pit boards are still a thing.

 

I don't think any data is allowed to be sent from pit to car, but there seems to be lots of exceptions for things popping up, so who knows.

[mjjTT]

I don't think any data is allowed to be sent from pit to car, but there seems to be lots of exceptions for things popping up, so who knows.

8.6.3 Team to car telemetry is prohibited, with the exception of:

a. TheFIAMarshallingSystemdefinedinArticle8.12;

b. HandshakingrequiredbythecartoteamtelemetrysystemdefinedinArticle8.6.1.

[jAnO76]

8.6.3 Team to car telemetry is prohibited, with the exception of:
a. TheFIAMarshallingSystemdefinedinArticle8.12;
b. HandshakingrequiredbythecartoteamtelemetrysystemdefinedinArticle8.6.1.

Anyone know if it is possible to intercept those? Sounds like a fun project to do trackside during testing..

[AustinF1]

These comments from Otmar cast Alonso's chicane-cutting penalty in a different light ...

 

Alpine seeks FIA talks over "wholly unjust" Alonso F1 penalty https://www.motorspo...nalty/10303574/

 

Interesting point re: the Monaco chicane. I remember Lewis cutting that chicane with Danny right on his gearbox, keeping the position, and not getting so much as an investigation iirc...and that was for P1.

 

 

...

 

Alonso made an error at the chicane and cut across it – which handed him a brief time advantage.

 

Although Alonso backed off twice on the following straight to try to give back any time he had gained with the move, the stewards were still not happy with how things were handled and punished him afterwards for gaining what it felt was a 'lasting advantage'.

 

The five-second sanction was enough to drop Alonso from ninth to 11th, and out of the points.

 

Alonso’s Alpine bosses are unhappy with the situation because they were offered no opportunity by the FIA to give more time back, and no chance for their driver to explain his actions, before being sanctioned.

 

Alpine team principal Otmar Szafnauer believes the situation was especially unfair because the outfit and driver had no way of knowing exactly how much of an advantage that had to give back.

 

“We need to speak with the FIA at the next grand prix,” he said. “We need clarity on this. We need a way to say: ‘look, you've got to give more time back.’”

 

...

 

Szafnauer said that while it is easy for drivers to understand about giving back positions they gained while running off track, it is much harder for them to understand any time advantage they got if positions did not change.

 

That is why he thinks with Alonso having done all he thought was necessary – and furthermore raising his hand in the cockpit and then radioing to the team what he had done – that the FIA should have messaged the team to ask Alonso to slow more if they were not happy.

 

Looking back at the data, at most Alonso gained around two or three tenths from his actions - something that he could have easily been asked to give back.

 

Szafnauer added: “If you leave the track and gain an advantage, meaning you pass somebody that was ahead of you, then it's easy to determine: you’ve got to give the position back.

 

“But in this type of situation, where everybody's behind you, how can you tell? So you need that feedback. And I think it was wholly unjust to penalise him after.

 

“Those guys were behind them, and they ended up behind them. So what are you penalizing him for? Because he was marginally ahead.

 

“If he is marginally ahead, then make him give that little margin back, but don't give him a five-second penalty because he was two, three, or four tenths ahead in total.”

 

While the FIA’s stance has been that the onus is on teams and drivers to sort out giving time back, Szafnauer is clear that there are times when clearer messaging is needing.

 

“It would be really nice to get feedback in the race to say you didn't give enough back,” he said.

 

“Fernando, once he got onto the main straight, lifted twice, significantly. And I don't know if he gave all the time back or most of the time back, but a lot of the time back. And when he's driving the car, he's got to then figure out: did I give it all back, did I give some of it back. Did I give enough back?”

 

Szafnauer has also questioned the scale of the penalty given to Alonso for an error, considering other incidents – like Schumacher later crashing with Vettel and putting them both out of the points – were deemed okay.

 

“There are plenty of times where drivers make a mistake going into a chicane,” he said. “Monaco is one of them. I mean, how many times do people come out of the tunnel then cut that chicane?

 

“They don't do it on purpose. It's just you're pushing too hard, it's towards the end of the race, the tyres are going, the brakes are going.

 

“Even a two-time world champion like Fernando can make a mistake, so then give the time back. Then you tried to do that to the best of your ability and then you get that kind of penalty. I just think it's wrong.

 

“I mean, did Mick Schumacher not run into Vettel, when he was in a point-scoring position and run him off the track. Did he? Okay, what kind of time penalty did Vettel or Mick get? No further action...” 

Edited by AustinF1, 15 May 2022 - 16:03.

[GentlemanDriver091]

These comments from Otmar cast Alonso's chicane-cutting penalty in a different light ...

Alpine seeks FIA talks over "wholly unjust" Alonso F1 penalty https://www.motorspo...nalty/10303574/

Interesting point re: the Monaco chicane. I remember Lewis cutting that chicane with Danny right on his gearbox, keeping the position, and not getting so much as an investigation iirc.

As far as I know Alonso cut the chicane twice and gave part of the advantage back once, he was penalized for the second cutting where he didn’t gave any advantage back. Also see Jolyon Palmers’ analysis.

[ANF]

These comments from Otmar cast Alonso's chicane-cutting penalty in a different light ...
 
Alpine seeks FIA talks over "wholly unjust" Alonso F1 penalty https://www.motorspo...nalty/10303574/
 
Interesting point re: the Monaco chicane. I remember Lewis cutting that chicane with Danny right on his gearbox, keeping the position, and not getting so much as an investigation iirc.

They cast it in the light of Otmar Szafnauer being full of **** as usual.

Alonso couldn't keep up with Bottas in front and was out of DRS while Schumacher behind kept getting DRS. Alonso then straightlined the chicane, raised his hand and made two tiny blips on the throttle. The TV graphics showed to gap increase from 0.675 to 1.545 before the DRS detection point. At the end of the straight the gap was down to 1.249, so those two blips only cost him three tenths.

Schumacher lost DRS and was immediately attacked by Ocon into T17, and then Vettel overtook both of them on the exit before being taken out by Schumacher a couple of corners later.

Edited by ANF, 14 May 2022 - 11:25.

[RA2]

 

 

FOD BOSS electrostatic sweeper is what they used on Saturday morning to clear the track. The circuit designer feels, in hindsight this should have been done on Thursday (rather than the road sweeper), which could have avoided a whole lot of criticism from the driver about the surface being unsuitable.

[MikeTekRacing]

These comments from Otmar cast Alonso's chicane-cutting penalty in a different light ...

Alpine seeks FIA talks over "wholly unjust" Alonso F1 penalty https://www.motorspo...nalty/10303574/

Interesting point re: the Monaco chicane. I remember Lewis cutting that chicane with Danny right on his gearbox, keeping the position, and not getting so much as an investigation iirc...and that was for P1.

There’s a lot of BS in there. As pointed above, pls watch Palmer’s analysis.

Edit. BS from Otmar/Alpine - not saying this about you. Wanted to clarify

Edited by MikeTekRacing, 16 May 2022 - 05:26.

[JimmyClark]

It's so nice to see there were some hardcore fans in the VIP area at Miami...

 

https://www.grandpri...t-miami-gp.html

 

(and I can't say I've ever heard of this 'well known' DJ)

 

One such complaint was made by Diplo - a well-known American DJ who worked at several Miami GP parties.

 

"I don't care about Formula 1 at all, but I care about parties," he told the New York Times.

 

One party took place in Red Bull's VIP suite.

 

"It was this bad box, like a jail," he said. "Also they had no food, and all I wanted was a sandwich, so I left."

 

Ultimately, after also leaving the Ferrari 'party', he returned to the hotel to watch the actual grand prix on TV.

 

Edited by JimmyClark, 16 May 2022 - 11:47.

[PitViperRacing]

It's so nice to see there were some hardcore fans in the VIP area at Miami...

https://www.grandpri...t-miami-gp.html

(and I can't say I've ever heard of this 'well known' DJ)

To be fair, Diplo's music ****ing slaps hard!

[SenorSjon]

This was back in the Bernie days. The ban only lasted the first eleven rounds of 2016.

 

It still is in place in the formation lap. That is why drivers couldn't be told to pit for dry tires at the restart in Hungary 2020. 

[JimmyClark]

To be fair, Diplo's music ****ing slaps hard!

 

Does that mean its good or bad? 

[PitViperRacing]

Does that mean its good or bad?

Good. Diplo makes fantastic music (if you're into that genre).

[ANF]

It still is in place in the formation lap. That is why drivers couldn't be told to pit for dry tires at the restart in Hungary 2020.

Right. Mid-2015 the FIA banned certain methods for drivers to find the perfect clutch bite point. Drivers kept making perfect starts which was pretty boring. That's why "pit-to-car communications during any reconnaissance or formation laps will be limited to safety and sporting information, so in other words there can be no discussion of start procedures". https://www.motorspo...-by-fia/615026/ I guess that's how the 2016 ban started...

[Dan333SP]

Right. Mid-2015 the FIA banned certain methods for drivers to find the perfect clutch bite point. Drivers kept making perfect starts which was pretty boring. That's why "pit-to-car communications during any reconnaissance or formation laps will be limited to safety and sporting information, so in other words there can be no discussion of start procedures". https://www.motorspo...-by-fia/615026/ I guess that's how the 2016 ban started...

 

Reminds me of the early 2000s rumors that Renault had a launch control that detected when the jump start sensor embedded in the track surface turned off, and then launched the car, meaning basically instant launch the moment the lights go out. I'm still not sure whether it was really used or just theoretical, but it was definitely banned by a rule change in ?2002? 

[Deeq]

Reminds me of the early 2000s rumors that Renault had a launch control that detected when the jump start sensor embedded in the track surface turned off, and then launched the car, meaning basically instant launch the moment the lights go out. I'm still not sure whether it was really used or just theoretical, but it was definitely banned by a rule change in ?2002?

I would definitly not have banned their system, just delayed the time to turn off jump detection system say 1 Sec - 1½ Sec after lights go out...the system will show when everyone launched their car, anyone lauch -T(before) lights go out gets rewarded with 10s Stop&Go.. Renault(or anyone use that device) would be legal - and not risk S&G - but will miss the launch everytime untill they disable their device.

Edited by Deeq, 16 May 2022 - 19:20.

[Gareth]

I know the Grand Prix travelling thread doesn't get much traffic, and thought you lovely RC people (especially anyone thinking of heading to Miami next season) might be interested in this super write up of the Miami experience from our very own MikeTekRacing - so here's a link to his post in the other forum: https://forums.autos...2022/?p=9891662

[FLB]

IMSA as a potential support race next year?

 

https://twitter.com/...MC-yey9gsIqAAAA

[PayasYouRace]

IMSA as a potential support race next year?

 

https://twitter.com/...MC-yey9gsIqAAAA

That would be a cool support race. I’ve always said Grands Prix should be supported by high profile local series. Only Australia seems to do that with the Supercars race. We used to have a BTCC race but that got canned decades ago.

 

Fully up for this.

[RA2]

IMSA as a potential support race next year?

 

https://twitter.com/...MC-yey9gsIqAAAA

 

Which series sanctioned by IMSA?

 

• • 
    IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship
  • 
    IMSA Michelin Pilot Challenge
  • 
    IMSA Prototype Challenge
  • 
    Porsche Carrera Cup North America
  • 
    Ferrari Challenge
  • 
    Lamborghini Super Trofeo
  • 
    Mazda MX-5 Cup
     
•  

Edited by RA2, 02 June 2022 - 08:44.

[LolaB0860]

<p>

Which series sanctioned by IMSA?

• • IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship
  • IMSA Michelin Pilot Challenge
  • IMSA Prototype Challenge
  • Porsche Carrera Cup North America
  • Ferrari Challenge
  • Lamborghini Super Trofeo
  • Mazda MX-5 Cup

I have the answer for you now, months later

https://www.motorspo...races/10429608/

Which is good news in sense that it's the proper Porsche Cup NA this time and not the second or third tier thing of last year. Also it will be livestreamed for everyone. The grid will probably be much bigger than at Toronto last year (16 cars?) because it's F1 instead of IndyCar and USA instead of Canada, but still smaller than at non-street events...?

Las Vegas still has zero supports listed iirc

Edited by LolaB0860, 08 February 2023 - 17:24.

[BRG]

Las Vegas still has zero supports listed iirc

The casinos won't want the punters to stray away from the one-armed bandits for any longer than needed.

[loki]

The casinos won't want the punters to stray away from the one-armed bandits for any longer than needed.

 

While gaming has the best margin the majority of revenue comes from non gaming operations.  Entertainment, hospitality, dining, shopping.  When an event is this crowded the gaming rake goes down and is expected to go down.  They aren’t going to fret about a few hours off the gaming floor everyday.  Room rates and food and beverage alone will make up for any drop in a few hours of gaming revenue.  FOM/Live Nation are the promoters and I’d reckon they’ll announce any support races in due time.  For better or worse it’s a high profile event that happens to be based around a car race and not so much the race itself.  I’m not expecting it to be a value packed racing menu all weekend.

[AustinF1]

I have the answer for you now, months later

https://www.motorspo...races/10429608/

...

Good start ...

Edited by AustinF1, 09 February 2023 - 02:00.

[LolaB0860]

The initial schedule is out and it shows the two Carrera Cup races as the only support races and nothing else. So last year it was two support series, now one (still beats Las Vegas which has nothing)

 

F1 is the first series on track so will gather all the crap from the road for FP1 (not that it's gonna be as terrible as 'true' street course)

 

https://www.formula1...fJ9R3qbosg.html

Edited by LolaB0860, 25 March 2023 - 14:10.

[LolaB0860]

This Miami Club Is Charging Up to $200,000 for Bottle Service During F1 Weekend

https://robbreport.c...ces-1234832974/

 

VIP with Pit Lane access Package £13,599 +VAT per person

https://www.seatuniq...7d-3faf1c63de8e

 

Such value!